What is or was 'Paddy's wall-fruit'? The reference comes from the 1840's.

Verbonica

A potato? Apricots are a wall-fruit: http://books.google.com/books?id=CLgTAAAAQAAJ&pg=RA1-PA177&lpg=RA1-PA177&dq=apricot+%22wall+fruit&source=bl&ots=Hl99HPDhvf&sig=x6YzfBpWugrfi45RBoSFPixxPEE&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result And an Irish Apricot is a potato: p://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/cgi-bin/res.pl?keyword=Irish+Apricot&offset=0 Dec 03 08, 11:01 PM

zbeckabee

Yes...But...Where does Paddy fit in? Dec 04 08, 7:50 AM

queproblema

Ever read "Angela's Ashes?" I won't be quoting it here. http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1042309 Dec 04 08, 8:24 AM

Verbonica

Paddy is irish slang for an Irishman. http://www.babyhold.com/list/Irish_Baby_Names/Paddy/details/ Dec 04 08, 9:11 AM

wajo

Thanks for your help. It's definitely a real fruit or vegetable - so I'll look into the potato idea. It's from an account of a visit to Tasmania in 1840-41 and refers to the area where I live now as being 'famous for the propagation of Paddy's wall-fruit'. Any more suggestions appreciated... Dec 04 08, 2:15 PM

Verbonica

Let us know what you find out, wajo. Here's another tidbit I found: "Paddies: people of Irish stock. In Lancashire, paddy came to mean ill temper. Paddy's lantern was a jocular Lancashire term for the moon, as was Paddy's grapes for potato." http://louisville.edu/~tavan001/MerseytalkP.html Grapes are also a kind of wall-fruit. Dec 04 08, 4:45 PM

queproblema

Well, that's a relief, Wajo; maybe it's grapes. "There are probably enough south-facing garden walls and house walls in Ireland to supply the whole country's wine needs if they were all planted with vines!.... "...It should be an encouragement to any would-be vine enthusiast that in many parts of the country a vine grown against a sunny wall outside can be productive. "Growing vines on a wall "Left to its own devices, the grapevine grows to be a sprawling, rambling affair, and its vigorous shoots can easily grow more than three metres in one year in Ireland..." http://www.garden.ie/howtogrow.aspx?id=995 Dec 04 08, 7:39 PM

zbeckabee

No...I meant...nobody has linked Paddy to the wall-fruit. Nevertheless, WALL-FRUIT, n. [wall and fruit.] Fruit which, to be ripened, must be planted against a wall. http://1828.mshaffer.com/d/word/wall-fruit Wall-fruit of Ireland: http://books.google.com/books?id=7IAAAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA434&lpg=RA1-PA434&dq=ireland+wall-fruit&source=bl&ots=YC62cF8PNr&sig=otI7bGwyx0aAFY9PUglpZRr2BGs&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=7&ct=result Dec 04 08, 8:07 PM

wajo

Hmmm.... I like the idea of potatoes based on the 'Paddy's Grapes' and 'Irish apricots' references, and I've also now come across 'Irish apples' and 'Irish lemons' for potatoes. But on the other hand if it was a more literal reference to grapes that would make sense because I think you're more likely to talk about 'propagating' grapes than potatoes, which you just stick in the ground and will grow anywhere. Dec 04 08, 9:30 PM

Verbonica

I think it is just comparing potatoes to any wall-fruit - apples, pears, apricots, grapes, etc. Since "Paddy" is a derogatory slang term for the Irish, it would be like saying,"a poor man's apricot" or "pears for dummies" or something like that. (I mean no offense to the Irish, but am just trying to perhaps explain the reference!) Dec 04 08, 10:02 PM

queproblema

Zb, I think Verbonica and I took it for granted that when we mentioned "Irish" readers would automatically link that to "Paddy." Bad assumption. I should have pointed out that "Angela's Ashes" was written by the Irishman, Frank McCourt. But please delete my first two comments, as, happily, the question turned out to be agricultural. The answer would seem to be potatoes, a major Tasmanian crop first harvested there in 1803. http://www.dpiw.tas.gov.au/inter.nsf/webpages/ttar-5vs5t4?open http://www.utas.edu.au/library/companion_to_tasmanian_history/P/Potatoes.htm Dec 04 08, 10:54 PM

zbeckabee

I still think it's a combination of fruit and not necessarily just one particular type: Walled Garden -- These walls may serve a decorative or security purpose, but their original function in the north temperate zone was to shelter the garden from wind and frost. This shelter can raise the ambient temperature within the garden by several degrees, creating a microclimate that permits plants to be grown that would not survive in the natural climate. Most walls were constructed from stone, but by lining walls with brick, which absorbs and retains solar heat, the temperature against that wall was raised, allowing peaches, nectarines and grapes to be grown against south-facing walls as espaliers as far north as southeast of Great Britain and south of Ireland. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walled_garden Dec 05 08, 7:25 AM