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    A chronicler of some importance, he is also remembered as the perpetrator of what now seems like a bit of rather obvious forgery. The acceptance of this was local but long lasting, a not very peaceful sounding but quite innocent saint being at the centre of all this. Who were the saint and the forger, and how is there a (tenuous) connection between the forger and hobbits?

    Question #109684. Asked by Baloo55th. (Oct 11 09 9:11 AM)


    Verbonica

    The chronicler/forger was Ademar de Chabannes, an 11th century historian who wrote of Frankish history.

    He invented a tale about how Saint Martial, the third century bishop who Christianized the Limoges district, had actually lived centuries earlier, and was in fact one of the original apostles. And he supplemented the less than scanty documentation for the alleged 'apostolicity' of Martial, first with a forged Life of Martial, as if composed by Martial's successor, Bishop Aurelian. To effect this claim, he composed an "Apostolic Mass".

    When his story was disputed he compiled forgery upon forgery, inventing a Council of 1031 that confirmed the 'apostolic' status of Martial, even a forged papal letter.

    By the late 11th century, Martial was indeed venerated in Aquitaine as an apostle, though his legend was doubted elsewhere.

    As for the hobbit connection - perhaps someone else can
    come up with that one :-)



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad%C3%A9mar_de_Chabannes

    Oct 12 09, 1:22 PM
    Baloo55th

    Yay! for the first bits - now for... OK, it's one specific hobbit, really. An important one in his way, but not a lead character. Perhaps this is where his name came from. (Perhaps not - with Tolkien you never know...)

    Ademar was trying to keep himself in a bit better position than just general monkery. The fact that St Martial wasn't born until about 200 years after the 'rest' of the apostles didn't seem to matter in those days before Wikipedia - and general education. The mass survives, and sounds quite good, by the way.

    Oct 12 09, 2:26 PM
    looney_tunes

    Here's a hobbit connection, albeit tenuous (particularly with the change of spelling):

    Aldemar was from Aquitaine, as per Verbonica's link. A famous person from Aquitaine was Eleanor of Aquitaine, wife of France's Louis VII and England's King Henry II, as well as being a force in her own right.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleanor_of_Aquitaine

    Sam (Samwise) Gamgee, Frodo's companion and the hobbit who actually threw the One Ring to its destruction, married Rosie Cotton. Their first child was named Elanor.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Gamgee

    Oct 17 09, 1:13 AM
    Baloo55th

    Sorry to have you working so hard (he says sincerely), but no wrapped cylinder of pipeweed. It's actually much easier to find, and you don't even need Google (or any of the others).....

    Oct 17 09, 3:48 AM


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