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Question
#38982. Hamlet.
asks:
Why are constantly fighting people said to be at 'loggerheads?'
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Brainyblonde
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Loggerheads: If people are at loggerheads then they are quarrelling or arguing with each other. The phrase is several centuries old and can be found in Shakespeare's "Taming of the Shrew". Logger was the name given to the heavy wooden block fastened to the legs of grazing horses to prevent them straying. Sometimes the loggers became entangled, with resultant strife; horses being basically impracticable they were likened to a block head if they became entangled and this is the explanation of the saying according to some sources.
Other sources suggests that the origin is nautical. Loggerheads were long handled devices with a spherical cup at one end. These cups were filled with hot tar or pitch which was thrown at enemy sailors. They, of course, responded and both sides were truly at loggerheads.
There is yet another nautical suggestion, this time involving whale boats. In these boats the loggerhead was a channel through which ran the harpoon rope. The channel became very hot when the rope was running out; it had to be cooled with water. The heat generated was likened to that found when people argue.
I suspect the nautical origins are correct and I suspect also that the whale boat loggerhead derived its name from the hot pitch background.
 http://www.briggs13.fsnet.co.uk/book/l.htm
Sep 21 03, 9:00 AM
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Hamlet.
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Yes, and if the tar supply of these medieval navies was depleted, the combatants would then bash each other with these heavy sticks.
Very interesting etymology...
Sep 21 03, 9:15 AM
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sequoianoir
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Nothing to do with TURTLES then ?
Sep 21 03, 10:56 AM
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Hamlet.
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No, in fact, the turtles are named after the same weapons that generated "at loggerheads".
Sep 21 03, 12:25 PM
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gmackematix
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I don't know how the phrase came about but the Shropshire coat of arms involving three leopard heads is called the Loggerheads and there is a pub in Shrewsbury with that name.
Sep 21 03, 12:26 PM
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mancandy
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It starts with Shakespeare:
1. a. A thick-headed or stupid person; a blockhead.
1588 SHAKES. L.L.L. IV. iii. 204 Ah you whoreson logger~head, you were borne to doe me shame. 1595 Enq. Tripe-wife (1881) 168 That shee should sweare..that she would neuer marrie with the Grocer he was such a logger-head. 1611 COTGR., Teste de boeuf, a ioulthead,..logerhead; one whose wit is as little as his head is great. 1708 HEARNE Collect. (O.H.S.) II. 107 A pitifull, sneaking, whining Puritan, related to ye Loggerhead at Lambeth. a1754 FIELDING Fathers V. iv, It is almost a pity to hinder these two loggerheads from falling foul of one another. 1790 MALONE Shaks. Wks., Twel. N. II. iii. 17 note, The picture of we three. I believe Shakspeare had in his thoughts a common sign, in which two wooden heads are exhibited, with this inscription under it: ‘We three loggerheads be’. The spectator or reader is supposed to make the third. 1821 Joseph the Book-Man 25 While loggerheads, most dignified, Are soon to wealth and rank allied. 1892 West Cumbld. Times Christm. No. 4/1 (Cumbld. Gloss. 1899) Keep off them rods yeh gert loggerheeds.
Sep 21 03, 2:13 PM
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