Why Achilles' heel but Dickens's novels? Why s' and s's for names ending in s?

lanfranco

Well, according to my Modern Language Association Handbook, only one-syllable proper names ending in "s" should have an apostrophe and another "s" added -- "Keats's poems." Polysyllabic names ending in "s" should take only an apostrophe for the possessive: "Cervantes' books, Hopkins' poems." The MLA would thus prefer "Dickens' books." However, the Chicago Manual of Style states that while both "Dickens'" and "Dickens's" are correct, the CMS prefers the latter. So take your pick. Jan 24 06, 4:51 PM

satguru

I've also seen official literature with Ellises and the like, and tend to see all three versions used almost at will. While I'm here I also just heard the old possesive form of it was its' (as opposed to it's, an abbreviation). Apostrophes appear to be part of a developing rather than a fixed grammar! Jan 24 06, 7:51 PM

lanfranco

When I first began teaching, I saw "its'" regularly. When I asked students what they meant by it, they often said, "Oh, that's the possessive plural of "its." "Its" does not have a possessive plural. "It," by definition, is always singular. Its = the possessive of "it": "Its color is red." It's = a contraction (not an abbreviation), meaning "it is" or "it has": "It's a book with a with a red cover." Its' = nothing. There is no such word. Jan 24 06, 8:23 PM

McGruff

I believe either way is considered correct, but here's what I found online: • add 's to the singular form of the word (even if it ends in -s): the owner's car James's hat • add 's to the plural forms that do not end in -s: the children's game the geese's honking • add ' to the end of plural nouns that end in -s: houses' roofs three friends' letters • add 's to the end of compound words: my brother-in-law's money • add 's to the last noun to show joint possession of an object: Todd and Anne's apartment http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_apost.html Jan 24 06, 11:46 PM

McGruff

And I'm with Frankie, have never known its' to be correct, and further down the page at the site I provided earlier it agrees: Don't use apostrophes for possessive pronouns or for noun plurals. Apostrophes should not be used with possessive pronouns because possessive pronouns already show possession -- they don't need an apostrophe. His, her, its, my, yours, ours are all possessive pronouns. Jan 24 06, 11:51 PM

satguru

Until a few days ago its' was not heard of by me either, but on a radio programme a few boffins insisted it was used some time ago but died out (not in my memory either). But I agree if ours etc have no apostrophe, why should its? But I'll look around now for more details as the people seemed to know something about it. So far: McGruff 1 Satguru 0 http://www.apostrophe.fsnet.co.uk/ Jan 25 06, 9:46 AM

McGruff

Keeping score? I suppose it's possible that its' may have been used at some time before our time and either didn't catch on or fell out of favour. And I'd have to add that its' would be preferable to me over it's when being used incorrectly as the possessive pronoun because I've had it drilled into me that it's can only mean "it is." I had one really mean English teacher in elementary school. Jan 25 06, 10:05 AM