What name for a head of government was originally used as a term of abuse?

daena76

puritans Jul 28 06, 3:21 PM

zbeckabee

hmmmmmmmmm. The word "anarchist" was originally used as a term of abuse...WHIG was also...How about Dictator? Jul 28 06, 3:27 PM

darkpresence

No, an elected head of government. The term is widespread today. Jul 28 06, 4:05 PM

zbeckabee

How about: Prime Minister--The title of Britain's top political office was originally a term of abuse, and was used to describe the chief minister of a despotic monarch. http://www.allinfoaboutenglishculture.com/ Jul 28 06, 4:37 PM

darkpresence

Nail on the head Zbeck! Jul 28 06, 5:31 PM

lanfranco

Um, zbeck, your site isn't quite helping, though I may well be missing something. The word "minister" originally came from a Latin word for "servant," and the term "prime minister" first showed up in 17th-century France and, later, in 18th-century England. As you would expect, it simply meant "first" or "chief" minister. See the link to the word "minister" on this site. I see nothing concerning "abuse": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Minister Jul 28 06, 5:55 PM

peasypod

I tend to agree with Frankie on this one, I don't see any references made toward 'abuse' concerning the etymology of the word 'minister', but I could be missing something. http://www.answers.com/minister&r=67 Jul 28 06, 6:07 PM

zbeckabee

Well...it was on that page when I first found it and through the magic of the internet...it migrated...go figure...same site, I just had to do some deep sea diving for it. My impression is that the words Prime Minister did not actually mean abuse...but rather, the term was linked with some tyrant who held the office of Prime Minister somewhere in the world a very, very long time ago? I dunno...just my interpretation. http://www.allinfoaboutenglishculture.com/prime-minister.html By the way...you have to scroll down about 6 miles to get to the article. Jul 28 06, 6:36 PM

lanfranco

One rotten politician does not a general definition of the term "prime minister" make. It occurs to me that we may be talking about some individual's proper name, which then became a term of abuse (though such a name would not, originally, have had an abusive connotation). However, zbeck, your site is offering too many articles and links and too wide a variety of subjects. Can you narrow it down? Jul 28 06, 8:01 PM

zbeckabee

http://www.allinfoaboutenglishculture.com/prime-minister.html Scroll half way down to the article with the picture of Tony Blair. Jul 28 06, 8:17 PM

peasypod

I find the answer to be that of 'Whig' (English political party) which was originally a term of abuse first used for Scottish Presbyterians in the 17th century. http://www.answers.com/topic/whig Jul 29 06, 2:16 AM

zbeckabee

Whig was one of my first posts and that dreaded darkpresence nixed it! Re: Prime Minister--I'm hoping everyone found the article on my second and third LINKS which were the same. You just had to scroll half way down before the article started. That's the one darkpresence agreed with. Jul 29 06, 2:32 AM

Baloo55th

Whig isn't a head of government. The Whigs were one of the earliest political parties in England, and the term, like Tory, was not at first friendly to them. It's never been a name ot title for a head of government. Jul 29 06, 8:32 AM

darkpresence

I have recurred. I've been searching for an online reference but I only have on offline one for this, I lifted the question from last Saturday's supplement with the Independent and it doesn't give a source. It says the term was applied to Robert Walpole as a term of abuse for assuming too much power, and that the term itself didn't come into usage until 1905. Until then, the title was First Lord of the Treasury, a title the Prime Minister still holds. Jul 29 06, 4:47 PM

Baloo55th

Does ring a bell here in the Baloo memory. I suppose with all these political change rounds, it's a case of it you can't beat them, join them. If you call yourself something the others are using as an insult, it spoils their fun... Jul 29 06, 5:00 PM

darkpresence

Regarding Whig, I remember that Tory has its origins in an old Irish word for robber. Don't know when the conservatives adopted it, though. Jul 29 06, 5:10 PM

zbeckabee

From my link: The title of Britain's top political office was originally a term of abuse, and was used to describe the chief minister of a despotic monarch. It also carried overtones that the politician was merely a lackey of the Crown. Robert Walpole, George Grenville and Lord North all hotly denied that they were prime ministers. The title was finally given official recognition in 1937, when the Salaries of the Ministers of the Crown Act made provision for paying 'the First Lord of the Treasury and Prime Minister' - the two offices that since the 18th century, have usually been held by the Prime Minister. Nevertheless, in spite of this recognition, the brass plate outside the PMs front door still bears the title of First Lord of the Treasury. Jul 29 06, 5:45 PM

queproblema

Zb's links don't work anymore, at least not on my computer, so I'm updating this. All of the following text is lifted from this site, which seems quite reliable. http://www.archontology.org/nations/uk/bpm/01_bpm.php The emergence of the term Prime Minister in Great Britain has long been an issue of scholarly and political debate. As a term of reproach, it was used toward Sir Robert Walpole, but its definite birth as formal style assigned to the principal member of British government and its juridical justification date back to the late 19th century. In 1806 it was asserted in the Commons that "the Constitution abhors the idea of a prime minister", and as late as 1829 the Commons again asserted that "nothing could be more mischievous or unconstitutional than to recognize by act of parliament the existence of such an office." It was not until early 20th century when the Prime Minister's precedence in England was established. On 10 Dec 1905 King Edward VII issued a royal warrant, which included the words: Whereas We taking into Our Royal consideration that the precedence of Our Prime Minister has not been declared or defined by due authority, We deem it therefore expedient that the same should be henceforth established and defined. Know ye therefore that in the exercise of Our Royal Prerogative We do hereby declare Our Royal Will and Pleasure that in all times hereafter the Prime Minister of Us, Our Heirs and Successors shall have place and precedence next after the Archbishop of York. The Act made a certain distinction between "position" (Prime Minister) and "office" (First Lord of the Treasury) emphasizing the unique character of the position and recognized the existence of the Cabinet. Nevertheless, in spite of this recognition, the brass plate outside the Prime Minister's front door still bears the title of First Lord of the Treasury. The lack of official recognition for the position of Prime Minister causes problems when trying to positively identify prime ministers in the British history. Nov 08 09, 5:59 PM