What very British symbol appears on the gates of Michael Jackson's troubled Neverland Ranch estate?

whee

A coat of arms. http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41424000/jpg/_41424392_neverlandgates203_ap.jpg There is no evidence that Michael Jackson has purchased his own coat of arms. While the coat of arms on the Neverland gate bears some initial resemblence to the very familiar Queen of England's coat of arms, closer examination shows that it is different. http://people.smu.edu/ckline/UK_Royal_Coat_of_Arms.png Mar 02 08, 1:03 PM

Baloo55th

A coat of arms isn't necessarily British - they have them all over Europe. Here's info on the Hungarian national coat of arms: http://www.historicaltextarchive.com/hungary/coats.html The one on the Neverland gates looks suspiciously like something else very well known, however. I can't seem to find anything other than the stock photo, though, so I can't say for certain. Mar 02 08, 1:43 PM

billythebrit

Just saw a clip of it on Channel 5 news, and it looked a lot like the Queen's coat of arms (as seen on UK passports). It's the Queen's Coat of Arms! You're all reading way too much into this. He probably saw the image on a trip to London and decided to put it on his gates! Mar 02 08, 1:51 PM

Baloo55th

In the UK you can't purchase a coat of arms. A fee is payable for petitioning for a grant of arms, but the actual grant may or may not be made depending on the findings of the College of Arms. If favourable, the arms are free (but there is quite a bit of cost in getting them properly designed, etc). And once again, just because your name is Bloggs-Naismith and you find a Bloggs-Naismith coat of arms it doesn't mean you are entitled to use it. No matter what the scammers who sell you 'your family coat of arms' say, simply having the same surname is not connection enough. (In the case of Bloggs-Naismith there may be cause for investigation, as there won't be many of them. This doesn't apply if you're the child of Freda Bloggs and Hamish Naismith...) To be armigerous (which sounds like it needs treatment), you have to demonstrate descent from the original grantee, preferably in the male line. In the end it's down to the Earl Marshall advised by the Kings of Arms, Heralds, Pursuivants etc. There are no fixed standards for new grants - yea or nay is up to the Earl Marshall in the last resort, and he may refuse a grant that's passed the College. If Michael Jackson were to become a British citizen, he might be granted arms, but he would probably not get the ones he's using. The heralds like to keep distinctions, and there are quite complex rules for what you can have and what you can't have. From prior knowledge aided and abetted by various sites, but if you really want to get your info at source, http://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/ It looks like it to me, but i can't find a big enough pic to be certain. Mar 02 08, 2:32 PM

zbeckabee

The Sun reports: "As you pass through the huge golden gates bearing Her Majesty The Queen’s coat of arms below a crown boasting the legend “Michael Jackson”, your eyes are immediately drawn to two things..." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sun http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article148023.ece THOUGH this site states the coat of arms is that of the Jackson family. There are similarities and subtle differences between the Royal Coat of Arms (See whee's second link) and the Neverland Coat of Arms pictured in this link: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/showbiz/showbiznews.html?in_article_id=519990&in_page_id=1773 Royal Coat of Arms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_coat_of_arms_of_the_United_Kingdom Mar 02 08, 4:48 PM

whee	Got it! It *IS* the Royal coat of arms. The motto is identical even. http://www.flickr.com/photos/scotthaefner/2211388744/ Mar 02 08, 7:22 PM

Baloo55th

It isn't, actually. Two of the quarterings are different - one and four. Where the Royal Arms has three lions, Neverland has what looks like plant stalks or six of something. Possibly fleurs de lys, referring back to the old Royal Arms that had the French arms quartered before the English lions were incorporated (when we decided we didn't want France any more...). http://www.flags.net/images/largeflags/UNKG1026.GIF Mar 03 08, 4:45 AM

billythebrit

I think it's just a simplified version. It contains the Lion, symbol of England, and the unicorn, symbol of Scotland, together to form Great Britain. There might be a few small differences, but it's obvious what it's based on. Mar 03 08, 5:49 AM

Baloo55th

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartering_(heraldry) Interesting example shown there of a somewhat over the top shield with a claimed 719 quarterings. I haven't checked it - accurately anyway. I suspect there could be more. May 21 09, 12:44 PM