Willow, a Jewish macrobiotic vegan neophyte, is found lifeless on her kitchen floor. On the counter, a half eaten wooden bowl of leaf and flower salads: frisée, nasturtiums, bok choy, roquette, borage, marigolds, foxglove, carnations, oakleaf, bee balm, lollo bionda and rouge d’Hiver. Her faith demands immediate burial. They detect no signs of life at all. They are a commune on a remote island with no medical access. Should they bury her now?

lanfranco

Foxglove? Well, though I'm not a physician, I'd still say that Willow's in trouble. If she's beyond the nausea, vomiting, delirium stage, and no medical help at all is available, I think a quick burial in a simple pine box should be prepared within 24 hours. I hope the local commune members know how to say Kaddish. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digitalis Aug 16 08, 10:16 PM

knud77

Well....since this is Saturday night, Willow will not be buried until Shabbas is over (Sunday morning). That will give her fellow kibbutzniks time to see if Willow is indeed dead. The terms "lifeless" and "no signs of life at all" suggest to me that Willow is not dead, just evincing death-like symptoms common with foxglove poisoning. Since gastric lavage is out of the question, I would recommend pureeing some of my wife's meatloaf and introducing it into Willow's gullet. This will cause Ms. Willow to immediately expel the contents of her stomach and may save her life (if she is still alive). If Ms. Willow does survive, however, she will be very angry that any meat product was introduced into her system and you will have a weeping Willow on your hands. Eat fruit and be well. Aug 16 08, 10:47 PM

zbeckabee

I'm with lanfranco -- Let's WEEP for WILLOW. However, as knud77 states, I wouldn't want to mess with this: The latter part of the chapter deals specifically with how the community is to deal with a dead body on Shabbat. Generally speaking, the Halakhah shows great concern for Kavod HaMet respect for the dead so on Shabbat, when the body can neither be moved not directly cared for, the Rabbis permit a number of activities to ensure that the body is not left in a disrespectful state. It goes without saying that to actually bury the corpse or even to move it remains forbidden on Shabbat, for the respect that must be shown to the living who still are fulfilling Mitzvot is even greater than that shown to the dead. http://www.ou.org/shabbat/5765/rsteinsaltz/092905sh150157.htm AND -- Neophyte or not, I would think Ms. Willow should have known about those foxglove issues which brings us to suicide: Judaism regards suicide as a criminal act. Someone who commits suicide is considered a murderer. It matters not whether he kills someone else or himself. His soul is not his to extinguish. When a Jew commits suicide, he is not permitted a full Jewish burial, and there is even a debate whether shiva (the seven-day mourning period) is observed or whether the kaddish prayer is said. http://judaism.about.com/library/3_askrabbi_o/bl_simmons_burysuicide.htm Aug 16 08, 11:01 PM

Baloo55th

Like knud, I'm querying 'lifeless'. Most people know where the pulse is - on the wrist. This isn't the best place to check it, and it's not in the current UK/European protocols nowadays at all. If Willow has blueing of the lips and no capillary refill (when you press a nail, it whitens then the blood comes back if there is any circulation at all - staying white indicates no circulation), then there is little hope. CPR should be attempted anyway. If Willow's lips are OK and there is capillary refill, she's got a circulation too faint to detect by pulse taking. In this case, atropine is the recommended treatment, as it raises the heart activity and counters the slowdown that the digitalin in the foxglove has produced. This is normally done intravenously, but if you've not got any shots of it in the first aid kit (you never know with remote communities...) you could try administering deadly nightshade or jinson weed (or close relations) orally. Yes, they are poisons, but she's as good as dead and buried if you don't anyway. As they aren't found everywhere, it might be best to try an emetic like syrup of ipecac (err, not a common thing to find) or mustard in water (if no powder, stir some French's up...). These are suggestions for use in a remote island commune, NOT for in mainland areas where there can be access to ambulance or other medical facilities. GET HELP! Whatever, don't bury her if the signs I've mentioned are positive. And if in civilised territory, there will need to be an inquest so keep all the leaves and the half-eaten bowl (Willow must have very good teeth...). The girl is an idiot in my opinion, but that's no reason not to help her. If she gets angry about meatloaf (is Mrs Knud related to Mrs SOTHC?) or the use of solanaceae products (frowned upon by macrobiotic followers), at least she's alive and angry. http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003394.htm http://www.answers.com/topic/emetic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atropine http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pagerender.fcgi?artid=1842967&pageindex=1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macrobiotic_diet http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/american-meatloaf,969,RC.html Baloo leaves it to the rabbis to decide on the religious aspect. His major concern is ensuring life before death, and letting others take care of their own afterlives. Aug 17 08, 4:12 AM

Arpeggionist

My question is, where is this girl's family? The Halakha is very vague when it comes to timing of burial, and extenuating circumstances can serve as a good reason to delay the funeral. Among such circumstances is giving the chance for the deceased's family to arrive and prepare the funeral arrangements. In some cases, the law of the land calls for an autopsy. And perhaps the family or some close friends figure she would prefer to be buried in Israel (rather than some remote island). Aug 17 08, 4:39 AM

tragic_flawed

The girl is in suspended animation due to the type of herbs she hath consumed...poor girl, if she were to be interned now, she would awaken a la Kill Bill. Aug 17 08, 4:58 AM

Baloo55th

Of course, there could be another reason for her being on the floor: too much lettuce. For a reference to this, see B. Potter's case study 'Peter Rabbit' (Warne & Co). Aug 17 08, 9:04 AM

edmund80

The only aspect I did not anticipate was the slant on suicide. I must admit that was a novel twist. My intended answer: Vegetarians as a group, and macrobiotic vegans in particular, are well known to be more health conscious than the general omnivorous population. They are less likely to smoke, drink alcohol, use drugs of any kind, overeat and more likely to observe healthful habits. In short, their internal organs are less likely to be impaired, in particular the liver ( due to alcohol damage ) and the kidneys ( secondary to diabetes from over processed food abuse ). Digitalis glycosides, from foxglove, are mainly cleared renally and hepatically. My purely fictional Willow is macrobiotic, people who are trained to eat until at most only two thirds full. The bowl was still half full. In short, she had consumed at most a minimal amount of digitalis glycosides, but enough to simulate death. She has become bradycardic enough that distal pulses are undetectable, as noted by balloo55th. I wrote the question last night, the Sabbath. They cannot bury her right away, as per her religion. This will give time for her liver and kidneys to clear the digitalis glycosides from her body. She may still recover and should not be buried. Knud77 and tragic_flawed are right, she appears lifeless, but is not dead. And I may have some use for that meatloaf in my practice. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7110611 http://www.nobeliefs.com/comments9.htm http://www.all-creatures.org/health/theliver.html http://www.benbest.com/health/kidney.html http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pagerender.fcgi?artid=2352199&pageindex=2#page [Traded out final link -- Zb] Aug 17 08, 12:44 PM

zbeckabee

All fine and dandy, until we take a look at the "operative" word "neophyte," which could put Ms. Willow as a very recent convert and end up leaving her organs in any number of conditions. Drat! Another variable. Aug 17 08, 3:34 PM

Baloo55th

I wondered which she was a convert to: Judaism, macrobiotisa or veganism. And with respect to edmund, the founders of macrobiotics smoked, and a word to those that regard the diet/way of life as preventing cancer, do please look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macrobiotic_diet#Macrobiotics_and_cancer Be wary of any diet linked to a lengthy philosophy. Oh, and the oakleaf referred to is, I hope, oak leaf lettuce. The leaves of the oak tree are not recommended as part of a diet. They aren't poisonous - they can be used as a source of tannin in fruit wine making, but that's why they are not really edible. Although, if the girl's daft enough to put foxglove in her salad, you never know.... I'm still worried about her eating half a wooden bowl.... Aug 17 08, 4:12 PM

McGruff

In the future, please post this kind of question in a discussion area. Aug 17 08, 9:50 PM