Created 50 years ago, it incorporates two characters from a visual system of communication. On the other hand, the designer also claimed to have been partly inspired by moment of personal despair that he referred to a searing painting by a great artist, one associated with the depredations and tragedies of war. What is it, what are the two characters, and why was the reference to the painting somewhat problematic?

peasypod

Well, peasy thinks this may well be the peace symbol offering semaphoric signals for the letters "N" and "D", (the characters, for Nuclear Disarmament). The painting, by Goya, representing his (Gerald Holtom)moment of personal despair depicts a peasant before a firing squad in the great "The Third of May 1808". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_symbol#The_peace_symbol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_of_May_1808 Sep 03 08, 4:59 PM

lanfranco

Splendid, peasy! However, I still need a specific discussion of why Holtom's reference to the Goya painting is problematic. Sep 03 08, 5:06 PM

Astena

Taken from "Peace: 50 Years of Protest", by Barry Miles "In fact, Holtom may have been thinking of a different Goya. In The Third of May 1808 the man before the firing squad has his hands raised high in the air, albeit in the same V position. However, one of the most famous images from Goya's Disasters of War series of 80 etchings is one of a peasant on his knees, slumped in depression, with his hands in exactly the position Holtom describes." Sep 03 08, 6:05 PM

lanfranco

Very nice, Astena, though there is reason to believe that Holtum was referring to "The Third of May, 1808" and simply didn't recall it correctly. Now, Peasy and Astena, I've got silver peace symbols on chains in the vault -- in fact, I was given one back in the dark ages of my early adolescence. Very popular they were, in the mid-70's. I'll let them go for free! Sep 03 08, 6:13 PM

queproblema

Here's an image of "Tristes presentimientos de lo que ha de acontecer." ("Sad forebodings of what will befall") http://www.artehistoria.jcyl.es/genios/cuadros/2852.htm Sep 03 08, 6:26 PM

lanfranco

That is, indeed, a deeply moving image from the "Disasters of War," qp, except that Holtum specifically referred to the "peasant before the firing squad." Moreover, the strong upward "V" formation in the painting doesn't appear as a strong downward "V" in the "Tristes presentimientos" image. Sep 03 08, 8:28 PM

queproblema

Well, yes. Peasy supplied the image you were looking for. Holtom's statement, "I drew myself: the representative of an individual in despair, with hands palm outstretched outwards and downwards in the manner of Goya's peasant before the firing squad," being "somewhat problematic," Barry Miles theorizes he may have been thinking of the one I linked to. Holtum may have even supposed this peasant WAS awaited a firing squad. I find the title is known as "Gloomy Presentiments of Things to Come," but can't find an English site that gives the same details the one I linked to above does. My translation is, "Initial print of a series in which a man kneeling and alone faces the chaos and anguish before the recent Napoleonic invasion, with forebodings of the disasters that would soon occur." No mention of a firing squad. Holtom was confused. Here are both paintings on the same page. http://www.darkmattermag.com/classic-art/master-of-disaster/ Sep 03 08, 11:30 PM