Professer 
|
I admire Jonathan for doing this am afraid i could not to it, it upsest me too much to see whats been done there and other places,When i was 15 and Living in Singapore back in the 1970's i visited places where people were tourtured by the Japanese and that was horrific enough for me, i used to go to the War memorial and cemetary to sit and do my home work, was peasceful and i could do the work i needed. Many people need to learn and it needs to be taught si we never forget. Not just what occured in Auschwitz and other camps in europe but also what occured in the far east.
Reply #3381. Sep 14 11, 8:02 AM
|
| lesley153
|
Oatmeal, it's a very good question. I wondered if it was a good idea, but I didn't wonder for long. First, I was going to tell him. I don't believe in keeping this sort of thing secret. I think we have a right to know, and I am staggered that this knowledge was always kept from us.
The decision was whether I tell him before he gets there. I thought it would be hard but the knowledge would give him a different perspective on the visit: the word "ownership" is going round my head. Waiting till afterwards might have left him confused and wondering if he'd have felt differently if he'd known. The information reached him just as the coach reached the camp.
I thought that was it, but no. They left Auschwitz, and went to Birkenau. He has not had an easy day.
No, Gary, nor could I. I don't know how many people remember how Japan was involved, and how many people say "It was a long time ago: we need to move on." We can move on without forgetting. |
Reply #3382. Sep 14 11, 11:33 AM
|
| Oatmeal25
|
Auschwitz and Birkenau? That's a double whammy. (Why am I hearing Kol Nidre in the background? Guess I was thinking of J. and musical connections to the event.)
I won't belabor you with Santayana's famous quote; I realize you know and understand it far too well.
Reply #3383. Sep 14 11, 12:28 PM
|
| Oatmeal25
|
Belabor you--that's not the right phrase. I need to learn English.
Reply #3384. Sep 14 11, 12:32 PM
|
Professer
|
Sadly there are too many that say it was long ago we should forget and move one, i say no way what happened was one of historys most evil events.
The japanese labour marches not only affected men but they also made woman march from camp to camp.
I am sur eGermany and Japan would love us to forget these past indiscretions of their nations.
Reply #3385. Sep 14 11, 12:58 PM
|
| lesley153
|
I did know it as soon as I looked it up!
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
Modern variant:
"History repeats itself because no-one listens."
I don't know about hearing Kol Nidre, but this seems particularly apt:
"This is by far the most moving music video I have ever seen."
"Vengerov Plays Bach Chaconne at Auschwitz."
 http://www.violinist.com/blog/tjminer/20098/10399/
Here is the link to the music:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DRdxT7XE1E |
Reply #3386. Sep 14 11, 1:04 PM
|
| Oatmeal25
|
No-one listens to anything these days besides the weak beatings of their selfish hearts.
I know Vengerov was filmed at Auschwitz, but the setting--the long hallway--reminds me of the Jewish Memorial to the Shoah at Dachau and its oven-like appearance. I know the chamber image in both the video and the monument were intentional, and I'm shallow, but I still had to mention it.
Thank you for the music. I mentioned Kol Nidre because it's always topmost in my mind when it comes to serious Jewish music, and I verified its relationship to the Holocaust in this link (though some of the songs just don't quite fit, IMO).
Aren't we nearing Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur? It is right then to remember as we do today.
Reply #3387. Sep 14 11, 1:25 PM
|
| Oatmeal25
|
Ah, some of the tunes listed are from the Nazi side of the event. Shudder, though I do like Wagner's music when I can wipe out thoughts of his anti-Semitism.
Reply #3389. Sep 14 11, 1:28 PM
|
daymare
|
"Wagner's music when I can wipe out thoughts of his anti-Semitism."
I never knew Wagner was anti-semitic. I should read more.
Reply #3390. Sep 14 11, 2:01 PM
|
| Oatmeal25
|
I'm not even close to being a music historian, but I do know that the party made full use of some of the symbolism in his works. I can't speak for the man himself and his attitudes. I just don't know enough.
Reply #3391. Sep 14 11, 2:25 PM
|
daymare
|
The party took all sorts of items which did not belong to them and then used them for their cruelity. If you objected...well, we know the outcome of that.
Perhaps, in the afterlife, they met those who taught them the error of their ways.
I know little of Wagner except for his music. Some makes me sad and some is like having a power station in the middle of the living room.
Lesley, anything new on your eternal light?
Reply #3392. Sep 14 11, 3:46 PM
|
| lesley153
|
"I still had to mention it."
Good: it's worth mentioning.
This year, Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur are at the end of Sept and beginning of Oct, so Kol Nidre would be well timed.
Wagner hated Jews with a passion much greater than was fashionable for his time. Two very nice lines from one of many articles I found:
"... started reading about Wagner, he quickly learned that the composer was an anti-Semite filled with paranoid and self-aggrandizing notions of racial purity that approached outright madness."
" ... agreed. “The Nazis hijacked Wagner,” he said. “Hitler took his party generals and high brass to concerts and was angered when half of them snored through it. They were a bunch of hoodlums.” "
http://www.jewishjournal.com/music/article/the_wagner_problem_20100406/
There's another line from when the writer had just finished reading Lord of the Rings, and his mother told him that Tolkien snaffled it all from Wagner - but that's perhaps for another day.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Family news
I phoned one of my nephews to wish him happy birthday tomorrow. No reply, so I sent him a text. No reply to that either.
Then I rang my brother to tell him what our cousin told me. After getting "welcome to the answering service" for nearly an hour, I got bored and rang another nephew's mobile. As far as he knew, nobody was on the phone. Would I hold on while he looked for it? Success. His mother was on it. Sitting on it.
I mentioned the birthday boy. He said the birthday boy was staying with them for a few days, and was probably asleep.
So eventually I got to share the latest wisdom with my bro, who sounded too tired to care about anything very much. I mentioned the birthday boy. He's staying with them for a few days. He broke his leg. Playing football. Great way to spend your 24th birthday - at your parents' house, with your leg in plaster.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Lamp news: it arrived this afternoon!
I was getting ready to go to my exercise class. I'd had a shower, and gone into nightdress (fetching) and rollers (even lovelier) till I was ready to go out. So when the FedEx driver rang the doorbell, I said he had caught me at my loveliest, and he was lost for words. He's very young, and I think I frightened him. I shall have to apologise.
I've set the time and alarm time, and played around with the fade up, fade down, and automatic sunset settings, and they all work. I am filled with optimism.
I went to my weekly exercise class, and then shopping. In the supermarket, a casual expression of curiosity from a strange young woman led to a nice chat, in the middle of which she told me I should do stand-up. I remember a teacher telling me I should join the Girl Guides, and a classmate (who I thought was my friend! ha!) piping up and saying I should join the Foreign Legion. Nobody has ever suggested I do stand-up before. Interesting! |
Reply #3393. Sep 14 11, 5:49 PM
|
| Oatmeal25
|
Fifty years ago (gulp) an older relative who was privy to such things in L.A. suggested I become a comedian (well, he probably said "comedienne" back then). I couldn't conceive of such a thing: all I knew to aspire to was teacher or nurse, and one of those only when I could fit it into wifely duties.
I can just imagine how quick and witty your real-life repartee is, Lesley (and that's a compliment).
Reply #3394. Sep 14 11, 6:00 PM
|
| lesley153
|
Thank you - I think she was enjoying the expressions; the sort of thing you use when you're reading to very young children: or the fact that my take on things is often evil.
When I got careers books out of the school library, they were always John is a dentist or surgeon and Jane is a dental hygienist or physiotherapist: John is a pilot and Jane is a trolley dolley: John doctor or solicitor: Jane doctor's receptionist or solicitor's secretary.
I think things are changing, even if attitudes aren't. I am cross when intelligent women divide medical practitioners into Doctors and Lady Doctors. And when quizwriters ask about singers, and refer to the male ones as singers, and the female ones as lady diva songstresses. Grrr. |
Reply #3395. Sep 14 11, 6:16 PM
|
| Oatmeal25
|
"Poetess" gets on my nerves. A poet is a poet.
Reply #3396. Sep 14 11, 6:23 PM
|
| Oatmeal25
|
And Jane is only a form of John. Grrr.
Reply #3397. Sep 14 11, 6:25 PM
|
| lesley153
|
| Authoress, tailoress, seamstress, adulteress, dominatrix... |
Reply #3398. Sep 14 11, 6:28 PM
|
| lesley153
|
| Night all. I'm going to sleep with my shiny new lamp. |
Reply #3399. Sep 14 11, 7:15 PM
|
daymare
|
Goodnight.
Reply #3400. Sep 14 11, 7:36 PM
|
Legal / Conditions of Use
|
Play Now! 
: