| s-m-w
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With your permission Lesley...
Although a very delicate subject, I think this from Diana Glazers documented research Paper (which can be found in the Wagner Library) sums him up…
“Perhaps he isn't the composer of logical-thinking people—and thus will always be assured of a worldwide audience and perennial popularity, though he will have his ups and downs. Richard Wagner raises the philosophical, ethical question whether genius makes badness permissible in man. And perhaps this question cannot be answered simply, but one thing is sure. Richard Wagner was a complex man whose music and whose ethics will amaze, baffle and intrigue audiences for years to come.”
Sorry to interject, but the subject is fascinating…
The fine line between brilliance and madness is underlined with Wagner, the man and his music.
Reply #3401. Sep 15 11, 4:27 AM
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| lesley153
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“Perhaps he isn't the composer of logical-thinking people”
Interesting choice of phrase. Wonder why she used it.
“Brilliance / madness” - absolutely!
As an extension of the old cliché the best form of revenge is success, Wagner’s music is being played (and enjoyed) in Israel, and by Israeli orchestras everywhere. This will make Wagner turn in his grave. Result.
There will always be people who are unhappy about this, in the same way as some pro-Arab protesters attempted to ruin a Prom concert this year by heckling the Israeli Philharmonic, but were drowned by boos from the rest of the audience, and eventually helped to find fresh air. The music had priority over politics and hate: and so it should.
Jonathan is flying back to England now. He’s thinking of coming here “for a haircut”: and I have a couple of things to do this afternoon; but we should get together some time today, which will be nice.
And Lamp appears to be behaving itself, which is a great relief.
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Reply #3402. Sep 15 11, 5:27 AM
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| lesley153
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| He's landed and I am off. My shoulders have been hurting since the cardiac exercise class yesterday (did I overdo it?) and I wonder if an Alexander lesson will help. Back soon. |
Reply #3403. Sep 15 11, 6:47 AM
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| Oatmeal25
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"Perhaps he isn't the composer of logical-thinking people"
I have to rush off for a haircut myself, but let me say quickly that Wagner likely didn't purport to compose for logical thinkers: he was a Romantic (late or post-, but still a Romantic).
Lesley, a thousand matutinal hugs, and enjoy your time with Jonathan!
Reply #3404. Sep 15 11, 7:03 AM
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| Oatmeal25
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(Well, it's morning here.)
Reply #3405. Sep 15 11, 7:09 AM
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| lesley153
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Thank you, hugs are good at any time of day. By the time he got to Luton, he decided that he would go straight to his flat, and sleep. One of his reasons was that he doesn't want to be carrying his luggage all over Bedford. I think that's a very good reason! He can come without luggage, and he'l be able to take more back with him.
My Alexander teacher did her best, and now my muscles are just a bit sore - which is better than screaming. |
Reply #3406. Sep 15 11, 8:52 AM
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| s-m-w
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If I had to categorise Wagner (and I am no expert at all) I would have described him as an“early romantic, master of expressive leitmotiv musical drama”, but timescales and eras are open to personal interpretation.
A visit to King Ludwig II “Schloss Neuschwanstein” evoked my interest in Wagner, the man and his music. I find it totally impossible to understand the psyche and have lost the patience to completely read his awfully long essays such as “Oper and Drama” which I feel only his good friend Nietzsche would have understood... and even he turned his back dramatically on Wagner in later life.
Now that might just explain the word irony?
Reply #3407. Sep 15 11, 9:24 AM
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| lesley153
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| My turn not to know: I hadn't heard of his "his awfully long essays" but I have heard of his his awfully long operas - a total of 14 hours or more for the four elements of the Ring Cycle. It's a brave opera-lover who'd go to see any of them let alone the whole thing: and it's an even braver person who would stage it. |
Reply #3408. Sep 15 11, 10:36 AM
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| Oatmeal25
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I extrapolated the label I put on Wagner from literature. I don't label without some well-formed background knowledge of my own. He was a Romantic, given as much to fancy and to logic. But I'm not sure what this has to do with Lesley, and I don't want to stray too far from her own focus.
Reply #3409. Sep 15 11, 12:16 PM
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| Oatmeal25
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Lesley, I have friends who made a weekend out of seeing the Ring Cycle. I felt as though I was waving them off to opera boot camp, but they were excited by the prospect, and then by the event. I love them, anyway. :0)
Reply #3410. Sep 15 11, 12:20 PM
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| s-m-w
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My apologies ladies... ~ Bows and leaves the conversation~...
Reply #3411. Sep 15 11, 12:20 PM
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| Oatmeal25
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...as to logic. My eyes, they're ancient. :(
Reply #3412. Sep 15 11, 12:20 PM
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| Oatmeal25
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No need to apologize as far as I'm concerned. I'm just talking about my own role here.
Reply #3413. Sep 15 11, 12:21 PM
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| lesley153
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Steve, what on earth are you apologising for, and where are you going?
I know people who are excited by the prospect of listening to Wagner, but his operas? Yes, I would call that boot camp! |
Reply #3414. Sep 15 11, 12:46 PM
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| Oatmeal25
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Even Tannhauser? That's sheer delight.
Reply #3415. Sep 15 11, 12:47 PM
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flopsymopsy 
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I went to see Die Meistersinger at Covent Garden once. I'd had the 'flu. I wasn't well. That's my excuse anyway, for sleeping through the whole darn thing!
Reply #3418. Sep 15 11, 2:16 PM
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| Oatmeal25
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I slept through "Blood Brothers" in the West End; my few days staying 'neath the dreamy spires had left me completely worn out from excitement, I guess.
Reply #3419. Sep 15 11, 2:25 PM
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| lesley153
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| Thank you both, that makes me feel better. :) |
Reply #3420. Sep 15 11, 2:58 PM
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