paulmallon 
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one would think
Reply #501. Jan 16 12, 4:56 PM
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| Greatguggly
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Fact is QBs normally get too much credit when the team wins and too much blame when they don't. Tebow's the only one I know of who gets blamed for both. Is a great QB? Obviously not. The stats aren't there. Is the game all about stats? Apparently a lot of people think so.
Reply #502. Jan 16 12, 6:39 PM
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| Greatguggly
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Don't get me wrong, I'm no Broncos fan, no Gators fan and I don't particularly like seeing high school offense being played in the NFL. I just can't believe the guy gets ragged as bad as he does for taking what was a lousy team as far as he did.
Reply #503. Jan 16 12, 6:50 PM
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paulmallon
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Aaron Roger's stats would have been a lot better if his butter-fingered receivers didn't drop about 8 passes that even I could have caught.
As a Giant fan, I hope the refs next week don't need seeing-eye dogs like those clowns yesterday.
Reply #504. Jan 16 12, 6:54 PM
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AntonLaVey
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"I just can't believe the guy gets ragged as bad as he does for taking what was a lousy team as far as he did."
Too funny. What I remember was the Bronco defense playing very well and putting Tebow n a position to get the credit for winning those games during the season. Yet, it was all about Tebow winning those games. Uh, no he didn't. Was he winning the games when he was nowhere to be found for the first three quarters?
Guys like Manning, Brady, and Brees can make up for a bad defense because they are great QBs. Then you have a guy like Brad Johnson. He wasn't a bad QB by any means, and he never got credit for winning a ring. The Tampa defense did, and that is where the credit should have been. What's the difference between Johnson and Tebow? Johnson was never a flavor of the month.
Never before have I seen someone do so little and become an icon of this magnitude in sports.
Reply #505. Jan 16 12, 7:20 PM
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| Greatguggly
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I'd like to know what sports media you watch. It can't be on this planet. All I've seen is a bunch of has beens and never-weres on ESPN (for one) dogging him, win or lose.
Yeah, that awesome Denver defense was doing a great job in the first half of the season, or in the five or so years previous. Almost as good as that high-flying offense they've been thrilling us all with.
I can't speak for you but let's face it, it's obviously the religious thing that bothers them. They love end zone dancers and guys who care more about personal glory than anything else.
Reply #506. Jan 16 12, 7:44 PM
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| Greatguggly
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I guess you'd consider him a winner if he averaged about 250 yds/gm and a couple of TDS and went 3-6.
Reply #507. Jan 16 12, 7:47 PM
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| Greatguggly
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I don't recall anyone giving Brad Johnson a load of credit or criticism. Trent Dilfer's another example. Would he have a ring without that Ravens D? No way. He didn't get undue credit or criticism either. I also don't recall seeing Johnson or Dilfer pray on the field or talk about God. There's the difference. I know the game. I know Tebow isn't even Dilfer at this point, maybe never will be. He just seems to have a target back because of what he believes.
Reply #508. Jan 16 12, 7:58 PM
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AntonLaVey
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Yeah, you know the game. That's why you deny the Bronco defense wasn't really the one who won those games. Your sarcasm proves that.
The only fact about Tebow is that he is a sub-par QB. He has trouble completing half his passes. Your sarcasm did not go unnoticed, and it only hides your ignorance. Go look at Tebow's last five wins of the regular season. Tell me that the defense did not win four of them. Tell me that Tebow is the one who deserves the credit for those wins when the most points they scored in those four games was 17 points. Yeah, you know the game. My guess is that you never played a game in your life.
As far as what media I'm watching? Well, you brought them up. It's ESPN. I guess you blatantly forget that people like Skip Bayless and Michelle Beadle are sucking at the Tebow teet. Beadle sure shut the Hell up after the Patriot game though. I didn't get a chance to see what Bayless said about Tebow.
"I don't recall anyone giving Brad Johnson a load of credit or criticism. Trent Dilfer's another example. Would he have a ring without that Ravens D? No way. He didn't get undue credit or criticism either."
Yeah, I already made this point. Thanks for making it again.
"I guess you'd consider him a winner if he averaged about 250 yds/gm and a couple of TDS and went 3-6."
Ooh, more sarcasm and this one just makes you look like a ranting fanboy.
Lastly, you are dead wrong about the religion thing. There are plenty of football players in the NFL who make a motion towards the sky to praise God during games and how many of them become darlings of fans and people like you? How many of them become targets of criticism because they make it public they are believers? Religion in sports is nothing new. Some people might have a problem with it, but only those who think they know the game have said problem. Instead of focusing on his religion, focus on his play, which is what I am doing.
Reply #509. Jan 16 12, 8:57 PM
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| Greatguggly
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Your guess is I never played a game? Well, wrong again smart guy. Your tendency to go into a little hissy fit when someone disagrees with you (which I didn't even do, completely) shows that you're the little fanboy. I didn't say Tebow was good, I said he wasn't even Dilfer. If that makes him my darling than you know even less than it seems. Actually, it's not that you don't know what you're talking about, it's that you think you're the only one who does. You probably parrot what your big brother says.
The only real disagreement we had before you got your panties in a wad was how Tebow was treated by the media. Maybe I haven't watched as much as you, I don't have much time anymore, but what I saw was all negative in sports and even general media (Bayless doesn't count, he's a whiny little turd). Guys who think they're enlightening the world with their vast football knowledge by saying Tebow isn't a good QB, when a child could see it. Even after I've admitted that, you have to go on about how bad he is...why? Because only AntonLavey can have that wisdom.
I wouldn't agree with anyone I heard call Tebow a great or even good QB, I just haven't heard that. You saw praise, I saw criticism and mockery. We don't really have a football related disagreement here. I don't care what his beliefs are. He can get his inspiration from wherever he wants but he clearly has a pattern of inspiring his teams. If you can't give him credit for that, you're either blind or bitter, or both.
Reply #510. Jan 17 12, 3:36 AM
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| Greatguggly
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Your strict adherence to numbers and under-estimation of things like inspiration, determination, and sheer adrenaline suggest that maybe you're the one who's never played on a team.
Reply #511. Jan 17 12, 5:20 AM
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paulmallon
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now children...
Reply #512. Jan 17 12, 8:44 AM
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AntonLaVey
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You call this a hissy fit? Man, I'd hate to be you when someone actually does go into one. I don't think you'd be able to handle it and would run away.
I'm the furthest thing from a fanboy on these boards. I'm one of the only ones here who doesn't praise my favorite teams at every turn. I suggest you learn what a fanboy is or just study Daver's posts in the college football thread.
How does Bayless not count? We are in agreement that he is a whiny little turd, but he still counts. Even Ditka was praising Tebow. But, I guess he doesn't count either? I might be remembering wrong, but wasn't Steve Young giving him too much credit? Does he count? Maybe not because Young does not have a single bad bone in his body. Ditka does though.
Vince Young also had a pattern of inspiring his team until he could inspire no more. Blind, bitter, or both? How about neither? I'm not even phased by what is going on because I called it weeks ago. I knew the Patriots would slaughter Denver at home and that would send them on a downward spiral back to Earth. I knew they would somehow make the playoffs and when they met up with New England again, they would lose big again. The fans and the media want to act like this flash in the pan is something new? This isn't nothing but a rerun to me.
"Your strict adherence to numbers and under-estimation of things like inspiration, determination, and sheer adrenaline suggest that maybe you're the one who's never played on a team."
Nice try there. I still play to this day against people 10 years younger than me. These are people who play college and minor league ball. I succeed and I'll be back there playing come March succeeding again. I do understand inspiration and determination, but they only go so far. Skill is needed for the long run.
The only credit I will give Tebow is that he is a great football player. Just not as a QB.
Reply #513. Jan 17 12, 2:38 PM
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| Greatguggly
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Couldn't find your predictions for any of that. You knew Denver would make it, lousy Qb and all? Why do I find that very unlikely? Then you just knew they'd meet the Pats again (of course you knew Denver would beat Pittsburgh). Then you just knew the Pats would slaughter them (tough pick there). You should take Bayless' job. I'll give you this, if you did, at least they'd have someone with a pair.
Reply #514. Jan 17 12, 5:06 PM
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AntonLaVey
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"Couldn't find your predictions for any of that."
And you won't either since I do have a life outside of trivia.
"You knew Denver would make it, lousy Qb and all? Why do I find that very unlikely?"
How unlikely was it when both the Raiders and Chargers treated that division win like the plague?
"Then you just knew they'd meet the Pats again (of course you knew Denver would beat Pittsburgh)."
New England the one seed. Denver a low seed. No way were the Bengals going to win, so the odds of Denver meeting the Patriots again in the playoffs was very high.
Anything else you don't get or is that all?
Reply #515. Jan 17 12, 7:51 PM
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| Greatguggly
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The odds of Denver even making the playoffs, if you're talking about when Tebow took over, were slim. So what you're saying is, even though they were 2-5 I think it was, and Oakland and San Diego unexpectedly fell apart, you saw it all coming. You expected them to make that run with a bad QB.
Denver had to play someone in the first round, in this case, Pittsburgh. New England had a bye. So I guess you picked Denver over Pitt? I bet that overtime TD pass had you squirming. Oh by the way, they scored 29 points in that game. They also scored 35 against Minnesota week 13.
Reply #516. Jan 18 12, 3:33 AM
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boxjaw
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I have to agree with Anton's post#505. Also fairy tales don't always turn out good. As far as media attention, Tebow got far too much. Wether it was positive or negative. I think that he started receiving premature 'golden boy' attention, which will of course lead to inevitable "devil's" advocate responses.
Again, post#505 summed it up nicely.
Reply #517. Jan 18 12, 10:38 AM
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| Greatguggly
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Ah, so now I have two experts disagreeing with me. Actually, I guess it's still just one, but with two heads that have the exact same opinion.
Reply #518. Jan 18 12, 11:13 AM
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AntonLaVey
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Neither San Diego or Oakland played like they wanted the division. Denver got on a roll. What part of this equation is too hard for you to understand? All of it, I guess.
Did I pick Denver over Pittsburgh? The fan in me wanted to see the Tebow Train derail as soon as possible, but the sanity in my head told me that this was going to be a close game. No way would it be a blow out with a one-legged QB running the Steeler offense. So, I took Denver and the points.
"Ah, so now I have two experts disagreeing with me. Actually, I guess it's still just one, but with two heads that have the exact same opinion."
And you accuse me of going into a hissy fit when I get disagreed with? LMAO
Stomp, stomp, slam, Greatguggly. Stomp, stomp, slam.
Reply #519. Jan 18 12, 2:24 PM
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| Greatguggly
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Right, San Diego and Oakland choked. You said it was unexpected yet you still said you knew Denver would make the playoffs. Add to that the fact that you think Tebow is no good and that adds up to you contradicting yourself.
Reply #520. Jan 18 12, 2:37 PM
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