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#1005839 - Fri Aug 23 2013 01:55 PM Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea
Chavs Offline
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Registered: Fri Jul 15 2011
Posts: 949
Loc: Ireland
I thought we were told that the Who Am I game divisons were going to be altered so that you don't get into the champion division until your have your 50000 point megabadge?

Is that the case?

If not, please please please could it be the case? I am finding the game too difficult to be fun, and a little demoralising to play - So often,... I don't. Maybe it's not just me who feels like this.

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#1005857 - Fri Aug 23 2013 02:47 PM Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea [Re: Chavs]
postcards2go Offline
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Registered: Thu Nov 20 2008
Posts: 792
Loc: New Jersey USA
I found out about this the last day of the month when I won the monthly. I didn't play that day, trying to avoid disaster, but alas it was too late. I did eventually win the 50000 badge, but, as you indicate, it was excruciating. I have also advised others to go for the 50000 first.

The points are just not nearly 'as good' for most of us playing the champs division. I wouldn't mind seeing the requirements for the champs division to include having already won the 50000.
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#1005867 - Fri Aug 23 2013 03:20 PM Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea [Re: Chavs]
AdamM7 Offline
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Registered: Sat Feb 18 2012
Posts: 528
Loc: Cheshire England UK           
I've heard people complaining about this for a while now and after winning the monthly in July, I know first-hand that the champions division slows you down by quite a bit. I was only 2000 away from the mastery badge when I won the monthly, and if I had played in the hard division instead of the champs throughout August, I'd be only a couple of hundred points away from winning it instead of the thousand or so I need know.

It's never a good sign when people are purposefully avoiding winning a badge or advancing in something. I think there's been a general consensus and no arguments against adding the requirement of the 50K badge, so it sounds to me like everyone would be happier if this was changed.
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#1005908 - Fri Aug 23 2013 11:31 PM Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea [Re: Chavs]
nautilator Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Mon Jan 09 2012
Posts: 206
Loc: Pennsylvania USA
Please do this. The champion division on this was a terrible surprise.

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#1005910 - Sat Aug 24 2013 01:37 AM Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea [Re: Chavs]
halekotsi Offline
Participant

Registered: Sun Jul 14 2013
Posts: 28
Loc: South Korea
Not everyone would be happier. I'm pretty happy in Champions now, and I'm also a good year or so of consistent play away from the 50K badge. So it would be a bit of a letdown.

I definitely don't think anyone should be forced to play at a level they don't think is fun, but it would be nice if there were some kind of option for people who actually prefer it there.

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#1005923 - Sat Aug 24 2013 04:12 AM Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea [Re: Chavs]
zippolover Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Fri Nov 16 2012
Posts: 5717
Loc: Norfolk UK
When a game is no longer fun, I stop playing unless sent there for a Daily Challenge. I already avoid the Mind Melt for that reason.

With Who Am I, I find the Easy too difficult and checking my recent results that the closest I have got to winning is 3/30. I will not get close to the 50k for another two years at this rate, so would prefer NOT to win having read this thread.
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#1005993 - Sat Aug 24 2013 07:32 AM Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea [Re: Chavs]
ssabreman Offline
Prolific

Registered: Wed Nov 03 2010
Posts: 1603
Loc: K-W Ontario Canada
At least in MM, the Champs can go back and play the untimed game after they've got all the badges. It would be nice if WAI had a similar feature. I don't play it unless it's a Daily Challenge.

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#1006390 - Sun Aug 25 2013 01:24 PM Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea [Re: Chavs]
HairyBear Offline
Forum Adept

Registered: Fri Sep 01 2006
Posts: 168
Loc: Florida USA
Greetings. Question: Is the Champion level question set even MORE obscure than the Difficult level set? I DON'T have the badge yet, but I play the Difficult set so that I can help score points for my team. That means I'm unlikely (if ever) to get the badge since it seems only the Easy folks score a lot of points. However, I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a minute and suggest that if you were one of those blowing away the competition in the Easy game and racking up the Whozit points, you really belong in the Champions division where you face other people on your same level of playing ability. Knockout seems to have this down to a science... you rise to the level of your ability and no further. I'd like to see something similar in some of the other games as well, perhaps a Minor Champion and Major Champion level to separate out the superbrains from the ordinary geniuses. I agree that if a game is no longer enjoyable to play, something needs to change. But letting the champs play the chumps is not the way to go. We don't let NBA stars play college ball, even if it would make them feel good about themselves.

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#1006392 - Sun Aug 25 2013 01:55 PM Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea [Re: HairyBear]
AdamM7 Offline
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Registered: Sat Feb 18 2012
Posts: 528
Loc: Cheshire England UK           
Originally Posted By: HairyBear
I'd like to see something similar in some of the other games as well, perhaps a Minor Champion and Major Champion level


What would be the criteria for the "major" and "minor" champion levels?
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#1006500 - Mon Aug 26 2013 01:09 AM Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea [Re: Chavs]
bubblesfun Offline
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Registered: Thu Jan 15 2009
Posts: 650
Loc: New York USA
I finally got it recently, but the champions level seriously ruined the game for me. It became a slog where I knew people just on the other side of the line ended up getting the badge literally almost a year ahead of me while newer players who never got the badges passed me on a daily basis. It really was demoralizing.
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#1006704 - Mon Aug 26 2013 02:18 PM Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea [Re: Chavs]
HairyBear Offline
Forum Adept

Registered: Fri Sep 01 2006
Posts: 168
Loc: Florida USA
*thinking*

You could use the Elo rating; anyone above 1600 would get "kicked upstairs" into the Major Champions. Anyone who fell below 1400 in the Major Champions would get dropped back down into the Minor Champions. Borderline cases might do that several times, and the Major Champions would then be stuck trying to suck Elo points from their fellow superbrains. But I think it's more workable than a secondary Major Champion badge for current badge holders because as each group of people moves up into the Major Champion category, it becomes easier for the next group to follow suit. So you'd get the same situation you have now. In the "old days", only the top 10 would get the badge, and if all 10 of those in the top 10 already had the badge, oh well. This was discouraging to those who couldn't break into the top 10, so Terry adjusted the rule to make it the top 10 who didn't already have the badge. All well and good until now, where, for example, in Piece of Cake, out of the top 50, 40 already have the badge, so someone finishing in 50th place is now eligible for the badge. If the Champions were separated into their own category, you'd still have the same situation, you just wouldn't see those 40 names in the top 50, just the top 10 remaining in the lower division. Perhaps some kind of balancing act is needed, make it so that you can get the champion badge if you haven't gotten it before, but you still have to make some minimum performance level, say the top 25. (This would disqualify me for the Piece of Cake badge this month, but then I shouldn't be getting it. I haven't had one top 10 so far this month.) So out of 180 people who played Piece of Cake last hour, 46 were in the Champion division, more than 1/4th.

That said, I'm not terribly fond of the Elo rating system. My rating keeps going down and down and down even though I'm not getting worse, I'm getting better. So I quit playing those games where I'm already a champion because I don't like seeing my rating go down. I'd like to see the Elo rating for champions in the hourly games go away completely. Then I'd play more often, and in categories where I sometimes suck. (The inclusion of the average in the ranking system prevents me playing in categories where I ALWAYS suck.) Why don't we return to the old top 10 system, where the top 10 finishers get far more points than those lower down? That encouraged maximum participation in the games, incorporated the average to some extent because low scorers didn't finish in the top 10, and didn't punish people for playing categories where they performed poorly. I used to play Music in Who's the Smartest when I never got more than 7 or 8 right, and usually only 5 or 6, but one day I finished first among everyone in Music. Strangely enough, hell didn't freeze over. Now I won't touch the Music category, never mind Geography.

So here's my solution for the Champions and Difficult players in Who Am I: give them bonus points for playing a tougher game, perhaps 16.6666% or an additional flat bonus of 10 or 20 Whozit points per game. I see the bottom players in Champs already get 30 points instead of 20, while the Difficult players don't. That seems unreasonable. I also see that out of the top 200 yesterday, 32 were Champions, including the top 5, and 163 were Easy players. Only FIVE from the Difficult level. Is Difficult HARDER than Champion? Does anyone know?

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#1006813 - Tue Aug 27 2013 01:24 AM Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea [Re: HairyBear]
AdamM7 Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Sat Feb 18 2012
Posts: 528
Loc: Cheshire England UK           
Originally Posted By: HairyBear
I also see that out of the top 200 yesterday, 32 were Champions, including the top 5, and 163 were Easy players. Only FIVE from the Difficult level. Is Difficult HARDER than Champion? Does anyone know?


While that does seem startling at first, that's only the top 200 and you'd expect people playing an easier set to score higher. The startling bit should probably be that so many people in the champions set are able to match the top scores of people playing in easy.

Lots of people play in the difficult division already for team points (or so I've heard - I used to play in it purely because I scored higher relative to others in the tougher sets). I'm not sure 1/6th points bonus would help encourage playing massively, if that's what you're trying to do. A flat bonus of Whozits seems unfair - it's just as much a skill to win quickly in the easy division as it is to get them all right in a tough set of the difficult division and you shouldn't punish those who are better at speed than difficulty.

With the champs, there's far more in their division. Yes, the bottom players get at least 30 but if the people hovering in the middle had gotten that score in the difficult (or sometimes even easy) division, they would have got a lot more Whozits. If anything, you want to be skewing the balance more towards the champs - I think a minimum of 30 Whozits is the least some of the champs deserve for having to put up with daBomb and _Morpheus_ on a regular basis.

As for the ELO
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#1007406 - Wed Aug 28 2013 09:14 PM Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea [Re: halekotsi]
nautilator Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Mon Jan 09 2012
Posts: 206
Loc: Pennsylvania USA
Originally Posted By: halekotsi
Not everyone would be happier. I'm pretty happy in Champions now, and I'm also a good year or so of consistent play away from the 50K badge. So it would be a bit of a letdown.

You could still play it in harder mode, couldn't you? Or are they different?


Consistency is also an argument here as no other game puts the champion bar so low.

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#1007412 - Wed Aug 28 2013 09:40 PM Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea [Re: Chavs]
halekotsi Offline
Participant

Registered: Sun Jul 14 2013
Posts: 28
Loc: South Korea
It's not much different in terms of difficulty. But a big part of the fun for me is seeing how I do against the fastest players on the site, and if the 50K requirement is instituted, it would be at least a year before I could compete with them directly again.

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#1007421 - Wed Aug 28 2013 11:00 PM Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea [Re: Chavs]
Jakeroo Offline
Prolific

Registered: Sat Aug 30 2008
Posts: 1924
Loc: Alberta Canada
Unlike halekotsi, I will never be the fastest player in ANY group. However, I managed to get the 50K after I'd gotten the monthly. It just takes a little while longer. On the positive side, perhaps folks should think of the "extra games" as adding to their points for getting to a new level : )
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#1007430 - Thu Aug 29 2013 01:59 AM Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea [Re: Chavs]
Chavs Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Fri Jul 15 2011
Posts: 949
Loc: Ireland
Hi Jake. smile
Extra games adding to what? I think I am missing something.

I'm years away from my megabadge whichever course I take. My main gripe is the fun factor. Very little fun factor in playing a game you know are doing badly at, and I understand the sense of making divisions, but not the way that people who do well at a game get banned from a game they enjoy. I have a monthly badge because I liked playing the easy game. My reward for liking it..? I am forbidden from ever playing again. laugh It's cruel.

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#1007573 - Thu Aug 29 2013 11:05 AM Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea [Re: Chavs]
Terry Offline

Head Honcho

Registered: Wed Dec 31 1969
Posts: 17689
Loc: USA
Plea heard and agreed with.

Game changed so that champs are those who have all badges including the 50,000 badge. It goes into effect on your next play.

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#1007594 - Thu Aug 29 2013 01:30 PM Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea [Re: Chavs]
flopsymopsy Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Sat May 17 2008
Posts: 2614
Loc: Northampton England UK      
Some of us had to slog for years before we could get the 50k badge because of that problem. Can we get a stripe on our champs badges saying "holder really had to suffer"?

Could we now do what was agreed yonks ago? And make it so that only people who finish in the top 100 can get the monthly badge in each and all of the dailies/hourlies? Only as things are going these days people only have to turn up. smile
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#1007601 - Thu Aug 29 2013 02:10 PM Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea [Re: Chavs]
Terry Offline

Head Honcho

Registered: Wed Dec 31 1969
Posts: 17689
Loc: USA
Yep, the top 100 change needs to be made. Which games in particular are easiest for just showing up? I'll start with them.

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#1007603 - Thu Aug 29 2013 02:20 PM Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea [Re: Chavs]
WesleyCrusher Offline

Administrator

Registered: Thu Sep 04 2008
Posts: 3713
Loc: Germany
From the hourlies, Smartest is most critical, with the current 10th in line being exactly #100. Hourly mix has it at #85, all other hourlies 75 or better.

On the dailies, Mind Melt actually has three outside the top 100, WaI is safe, all in the top 30.


Edited by WesleyCrusher (Thu Aug 29 2013 02:23 PM)
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#1007604 - Thu Aug 29 2013 02:28 PM Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea [Re: Chavs]
Chavs Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Fri Jul 15 2011
Posts: 949
Loc: Ireland
Thank you, Terry.

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#1007605 - Thu Aug 29 2013 02:33 PM Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea [Re: Chavs]
Terry Offline

Head Honcho

Registered: Wed Dec 31 1969
Posts: 17689
Loc: USA
Thanks, end of the month on Sunday, so good time to do the switch over for next mth.

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#1007617 - Thu Aug 29 2013 04:14 PM Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea [Re: Chavs]
WesleyCrusher Offline

Administrator

Registered: Thu Sep 04 2008
Posts: 3713
Loc: Germany
While we're on the topic of small but helpful fixes, can you please add a confirmation or undo to the Team Leader message delete (doesn't it just hide the post so that an undo would be easy to add)? I accidentally deleted something from our board twice this week while clicking back into the FT window from another program frown


Edited by WesleyCrusher (Thu Aug 29 2013 04:16 PM)
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#1007642 - Thu Aug 29 2013 05:21 PM Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea [Re: Chavs]
Terry Offline

Head Honcho

Registered: Wed Dec 31 1969
Posts: 17689
Loc: USA
Yep, will add that tomorrow morn.

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#1007650 - Thu Aug 29 2013 06:04 PM Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea [Re: Chavs]
ssabreman Offline
Prolific

Registered: Wed Nov 03 2010
Posts: 1603
Loc: K-W Ontario Canada
The idea for a Champs Division in Mind Melt has come up numerous times, been agreed on, and never been done. By skimming the Champs off, it may eliminate the need to do the cut off for the top 100 in that game. It's awfully crowded at the top of that game, and getting worse each month so many worthy players have been denied for a long time. It would be a shame to end up out of the medals because of the congestion there.

I'm writing this in here because the other thread keeps getting lost or ignored.


Edited by ssabreman (Thu Aug 29 2013 06:05 PM)

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