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#1026887 - Fri Dec 20 2013 05:45 PM Re: Crystal Ball deja vu [Re: mehaul]
alexis722 Offline
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Registered: Fri Aug 02 2013
Posts: 65
Loc: Connecticut USA
CmdrK, Nu skal jeg sige dig en ting, or det er ikke to ting: hvis du skriver til mig paa Klingon, saa skriver jeg tilbage paa dansk, eller maaske igpay atinlay.
Ixnay on the oreignfay ordsway. shocked
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#1026888 - Fri Dec 20 2013 05:49 PM Re: Crystal Ball deja vu [Re: satguru]
alexis722 Offline
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Registered: Fri Aug 02 2013
Posts: 65
Loc: Connecticut USA
If plumbing's involved, I suggest the old plumbing be updated, not sent back to the Roman Empire. smirk
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#1026900 - Fri Dec 20 2013 06:16 PM Re: Crystal Ball deja vu [Re: alexis722]
CmdrK Offline
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Registered: Sun Jan 17 2010
Posts: 1916
Loc: Nevada USA
Yes, we definitely need to get the lead out. No doubt Queen Margrethe II would agree.


Edited by CmdrK (Fri Dec 20 2013 06:22 PM)
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#1027082 - Sat Dec 21 2013 05:17 PM Re: Crystal Ball deja vu [Re: mehaul]
Creedy Offline
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Registered: Tue Aug 03 2010
Posts: 613
Loc: Coffs Harbour NSW Australia  
I know what's wrong. The Crystal Ball has been to too many Christmas office parties...hic

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#1027109 - Sat Dec 21 2013 06:40 PM Re: Crystal Ball deja vu [Re: mehaul]
postcards2go Offline
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Registered: Thu Nov 20 2008
Posts: 1035
Loc: New York City USA
... or spending too much time under the mistletoe grin
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#1027112 - Sat Dec 21 2013 07:23 PM Re: Crystal Ball deja vu [Re: mehaul]
weissmarc Offline
Learning the ropes...

Registered: Tue Jan 26 2010
Posts: 3
Loc: Florida USA
missiletow

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#1027124 - Sun Dec 22 2013 12:09 AM Re: Crystal Ball deja vu [Re: mehaul]
HairyBear Offline
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Registered: Fri Sep 01 2006
Posts: 487
Loc: Florida USA
I rarely play Crystal Ball anyway since I'm not lucky and have never gotten it, but I have to agree with mehaul, Scrabble rules should apply. If it isn't a word, it shouldn't be an option in Crystal Ball, and I would certainly apply that "not a word" standard to roman numerals, abbreviations, and hyphenated words. Foreign words if they're in the English dictionary pass muster: sayonara, ciao, and aloha should all be acceptable.

I think what that one person was saying/guessing about the word "moisture" is that it might be a sub-word of the word "moist" and sub-words don't come up. You might see "borrow", but you won't see "borrows", "borrowed", "borrowing", "borrowers", etc. I'm not sure that's true of "moisture", but it's possible.

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#1027125 - Sun Dec 22 2013 12:58 AM Re: Crystal Ball deja vu [Re: mehaul]
mehaul Offline
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Registered: Wed Feb 03 2010
Posts: 6514
Loc: Florida USA
I guess if I win with the 'worst' word, I shouldn't make waves. Just get the gloat over with and be done with it.
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#1027127 - Sun Dec 22 2013 01:44 AM Re: Crystal Ball deja vu [Re: HairyBear]
MiraJane Offline
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Registered: Tue Apr 30 2013
Posts: 1215
Loc: New York USA
Originally Posted By: HairyBear

I think what that one person was saying/guessing about the word "moisture" is that it might be a sub-word of the word "moist" and sub-words don't come up.


Except in the last day laureled, adulterine, growing, induration, intoxicating, naturalistic, and buttery have been winning words.

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#1027156 - Sun Dec 22 2013 09:02 AM Re: Crystal Ball deja vu [Re: mehaul]
satguru Offline
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Registered: Thu Feb 17 2000
Posts: 7234
Loc: Kingsbury London UK           
It's not about sub words. Some didn't come up and now do (ly endings), while others always came up and still do, although one barely does at present. But most mentioned like annoy, tumbril, tumbrel and mujahedin are apparently whole and random words. It's apparently a genuine formula but far more complex than I can figure out.


Edited by satguru (Sun Dec 22 2013 09:03 AM)
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#1027159 - Sun Dec 22 2013 09:57 AM Re: Crystal Ball deja vu [Re: mehaul]
mehaul Offline
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Registered: Wed Feb 03 2010
Posts: 6514
Loc: Florida USA
Might the 'words' used be from a source other than a lexicographic compilation? Might they all be words found in, say, "Ulysses"? Then a dictionary is used to do the definition of that word.


Edited by mehaul (Sun Dec 22 2013 09:58 AM)
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#1027171 - Sun Dec 22 2013 12:26 PM Re: Crystal Ball deja vu [Re: mehaul]
JanIQ Offline
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Registered: Thu Jul 09 2009
Posts: 668
Loc: Antwerp
Belgium
I thought the words were taken out of various dictionaries, so people who frequently use an American dictionary have the same chances of winning as those consulting habitually a British dictionary.
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#1068133 - Wed Oct 08 2014 11:12 AM Re: Crystal Ball deja vu
satguru Offline
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Registered: Thu Feb 17 2000
Posts: 7234
Loc: Kingsbury London UK           
I think this is the first time I've had to report a crystal ball word issue:

barbeque

Please can you remove this from the database, it's spelt barbecue and there are no alternative spellings, thanks!
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#1068149 - Wed Oct 08 2014 12:31 PM Re: Crystal Ball deja vu [Re: satguru]
Mugaboo Offline
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Registered: Fri Aug 13 2004
Posts: 1000
Loc: Scotland UK
Originally Posted By: satguru
I think this is the first time I've had to report a crystal ball word issue:

barbeque

Please can you remove this from the database, it's spelt barbecue and there are no alternative spellings, thanks!

Two years ago the Oxford dictionary had "barbeque" down as a misspelling, it now recognizes it as a varient, see

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbecue#Etymology

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#1068161 - Wed Oct 08 2014 02:09 PM Re: Crystal Ball deja vu [Re: HairyBear]
satguru Offline
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Registered: Thu Feb 17 2000
Posts: 7234
Loc: Kingsbury London UK           
As I said in the related thread elsewhere a moment ago, I am not impressed, dictionaries should insist on official spellings where a word has never before had an alternative rather than following errors. I'm not aware of any words in my lifetime having been altered to include common mistakes, only words with multiple original spellings either becoming narrowed down to one or accepted as general alternatives. But going from a single spelling to more doesn't look familiar to me, historically before printing became commonplace people spelt English randomly and it gradually settled down to single or sometimes double versions, but not the other way. I don't like one example as it means every other could follow now and there will end up being no official ways to spell just like in the middle ages again.
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#1068196 - Wed Oct 08 2014 04:00 PM Re: Crystal Ball deja vu [Re: mehaul]
MiraJane Offline
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Registered: Tue Apr 30 2013
Posts: 1215
Loc: New York USA
Since the word traveled from Arawakan to Spanish to English .... There have been thourhout time different ways to spell the word commonly abbreviated with BBQ. Crystal Ball often uses alternative spellings int he way Word Wizard and Mind Melt uses the third or fourth most common definition of a word.

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#1068205 - Wed Oct 08 2014 05:43 PM Re: Crystal Ball deja vu [Re: MiraJane]
veronicavee Offline
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Registered: Tue Jan 29 2013
Posts: 122
Loc: Algarve Portugal
I have always invited people to a Bar-B-Q or to a BBQ. Invites were never turned down!

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#1068213 - Wed Oct 08 2014 07:35 PM Re: Crystal Ball deja vu [Re: mehaul]
satguru Offline
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Registered: Thu Feb 17 2000
Posts: 7234
Loc: Kingsbury London UK           
Official alternative spellings have always been allowed and welcomed, and BBQs etc being abbreviations would not count as words except maybe in crystal ball as it has wide goalposts. But if you refer to my comments on grammar Nazis then once they accept a single word as a common error then the floodgates will open.
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#1068218 - Wed Oct 08 2014 07:50 PM Re: Crystal Ball deja vu [Re: mehaul]
veronicavee Offline
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Registered: Tue Jan 29 2013
Posts: 122
Loc: Algarve Portugal
I was merely stating terms I have used, not trying to start an argument.

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#1068223 - Wed Oct 08 2014 08:27 PM Re: Crystal Ball deja vu [Re: mehaul]
trident Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Sun Feb 20 2005
Posts: 2537
Loc: Wisconsin USA
This is an area in which I have some interest. The English language evolves and there is no reason to be afraid of that. Some other examples of words that changed in the future not to do multiple spellings from origin: "doughnut" and "donut", "gaol" and "jail", "catalogue" and "catalog", "skeptic" and "sceptic".

Some of these are certainly the old British vs. American spelling ideas, but there are modern examples too. "Email", which is perfectly acceptable grammatically today used to only be acceptable as "e-mail", with the hyphen which stands for "electronic mail".

Sure, proper spelling is important, but we have to remember that proper spelling is a bit of an illusion. Something is only proper when everyone decides it is so. The English language isn't under attack; it is simply changing the way that it always has.


Edited by trident (Wed Oct 08 2014 08:27 PM)
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#1068241 - Thu Oct 09 2014 02:26 AM Re: Crystal Ball deja vu [Re: mehaul]
looney_tunes Offline
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Registered: Tue Jan 20 2009
Posts: 4469
Loc: Briar Hill Victoria Australia 
According to thefreedictionary, which provides definitions from multiple sources, both spellings are accepted by Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary, © 2010 K Dictionaries Ltd. The language evolves, and what is considered absolutely incorrect at one time becomes the standard usage at a later time. English dictionaries do not attempt to decree what is correct, they try to reflect the changing language as it currently exists.
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#1068283 - Thu Oct 09 2014 11:30 AM Re: Crystal Ball deja vu [Re: mehaul]
HairyBear Offline
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Registered: Fri Sep 01 2006
Posts: 487
Loc: Florida USA
Satguru's point is a bit tendentiously made, but I do agree with it to an extent. The question isn't whether dictionaries reflect or mold English usage because they do both, the question is their proper role. The Webster's Third International (worst dictionary EVER) includes "imply" as one of the definitions of "infer". That certainly reflects usage since 50%+ of people manage to get imply and infer wrong, but that doesn't make it right. Dictionaries should strive to reflect not just common usage but CORRECT usage.

That said, I don't really have a problem with "barbeque". My only question is how will "unique" be pronounced in future?

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#1068294 - Thu Oct 09 2014 12:43 PM Re: Crystal Ball deja vu [Re: HairyBear]
CmdrK Offline
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Registered: Sun Jan 17 2010
Posts: 1916
Loc: Nevada USA
"My only question is how will "unique" be pronounced in future?"

If you leave it up to the rappers, who seem to lately be the arbiters of language usage and spelling, it will probably be 'unik'.
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#1068306 - Thu Oct 09 2014 03:26 PM Re: Crystal Ball deja vu [Re: mehaul]
satguru Offline
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Registered: Thu Feb 17 2000
Posts: 7234
Loc: Kingsbury London UK           
I wasn't aiming it an anyone besides the dictionary makers, because the word barbecue has a dominant Q sound people have been spelling it with a q, not because it had one but because they didn't know how it was actually spelt. I've since seen a couple of officially made signs using it in parks etc, which was bad enough, but when the blind lead the seeing the world becomes a lesser place. I tend to see any decline in standards as a precedent, whatever the area. Maybe I'm pessimistic and cynical, but I'm also trying to raise the standards for everyone as a result, you have to start the campaign somewhere and the standards here are higher than elsewhere so a good place to do it.
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#1068362 - Fri Oct 10 2014 01:26 AM Re: Crystal Ball deja vu [Re: satguru]
HairyBear Offline
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Registered: Fri Sep 01 2006
Posts: 487
Loc: Florida USA
Originally Posted By: satguru
... I tend to see any decline in standards as a precedent, whatever the area. Maybe I'm pessimistic and cynical ...


I'm guessing I'm even more pessimistic and cynical because I think it's a lost cause. Yesterday in the library I saw the 's used for a plural in a BOOK TITLE. I officially give up, there's no hope for American English to maintain any standards whatsoever.

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