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#1030347 - Thu Jan 16 2014 08:02 PM Re: New Union Jack (UK flag)? [Re: gracious1]
bloomsby Offline
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Registered: Sun Apr 29 2001
Posts: 3988
Loc: Norwich England UK            
Quote:
However, since the early 1990s Britain has been 'reinventing itself' as England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.


In the last 20-25 years or so there has been much more emphasis on the quadripartite nature of the country. There were no devolved legislatures (unless one goes back to the Northern Ireland Parliament which was dissolved in 1972-73). The Scottish Parliament was revived in 1999 (having been dissovled in 1707). The Welsh Assembly (National Assembly for Wales) was created in 1998 and the Northern Ireland Assembly was also created as part of the 1998 Good Friday Agreement. (It is very different from old Northern Ireland Parliament).

As far as I remember, before c. 1990 the term United Kingdom was rarely used. People were glad that younger generations on the Continent had started to refer to the country as Britain rather than England.

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#1031158 - Wed Jan 22 2014 01:10 PM Re: New Union Jack (UK flag)? [Re: gracious1]
Tizzabelle Offline
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Registered: Sun Jan 17 2010
Posts: 2507
Loc: Sydney NSW Australia         
Originally Posted By: gracious1
Originally Posted By: bloomsby

However, since the early 1990s Britain has been 'reinventing itself' as England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

And what was Britain or the UK before the 1990s? Wasn't it exactly that?

I always like to call it (admittedly as a non-Brit!) "Her Majesty's Kingdom of Britain and Northern Ireland", as said by Sir Humphrey Appleby in "Yes, Prime Minister".
This link might help explain the difference between Britain, the UK, England, British Isles etc etc. smile
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNu8XDBSn10

I only learnt last night that if there is a King James, he would take the number VIII. When QEII became the monarch, some Scottish folk didn't like her being QEII as Scotland didn't have a QE I. When Queen Elizabeth I was on the throne of England, she wasn't the Scottish monarch. QEII should have been QE I for the Scots. Winston Churchill sorted it out by declaring that from QEII onwards, the monarch would take the highest number from either country. As James I was James VI of Scotland, and James II and James VII of Scotland, the next King James would be James VIII as James VII was the last James of either country. (I fervently hope that was correct. I saw that on "Q.I." last night and I'm certain Stephen Fry wouldn't lie to me!)
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#1031194 - Wed Jan 22 2014 06:07 PM Re: New Union Jack (UK flag)? [Re: Tizzabelle]
bloomsby Offline
Moderator

Registered: Sun Apr 29 2001
Posts: 3988
Loc: Norwich England UK            
Quote:
When QEII became the monarch, some Scottish folk didn't like her being QEII as Scotland didn't have a QE I. When Queen Elizabeth I was on the throne of England, she wasn't the Scottish monarch. QEII should have been QE I for the Scots.


I gather that in Scotland pillar boxes are simply marked ER (instead of E II R).

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#1031555 - Fri Jan 24 2014 11:14 PM Re: New Union Jack (UK flag)? [Re: bloomsby]
Jakeroo Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Sat Aug 30 2008
Posts: 2064
Loc: Alberta Canada
Well, not being American or British, I can only say that if any of the U.S. states leave the Union, it's a pretty easy fix (just remove a star or two from the current flag).

As for the Canadian flag adopted in 1965, it had pretty much nothing to do with Quebec separatist desires, but more to do with the Suez Canal crisis (see Lester B. Pearson if anyone is remotely interested).

However, it, like many others, has been used similarly to what Flopsy said about her flag - although the "souvenir" types of ours are usually made in China lol. But the biggest alternative usage of our flag is by non-Canadian tourists who pretend to be Canadians because we're known as "generally" polite (mind you, I have to admit that the most rude tourists I ever encountered abroad were from Toronto lol).

Should the independence thing go through in full (not holding my breath), I'm pretty sure the "U.K." will come up with something to replace what they have now (if that's really the issue at hand here). I like a couple of the suggested entries (and giggled at some of the others). But it's not my country, despite the fact that the Queen is still considered our Head of State.

Best wishes to Scotland though, 3/4 of my most nefarious relatives were born there : )
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#1031607 - Sat Jan 25 2014 05:52 AM Re: New Union Jack (UK flag)? [Re: bloomsby]
sisterseagull Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Tue Aug 16 2011
Posts: 427
Loc: Torquay Devon England UK      
I just hope that once this referendum is done and dusted, that it'll be the last that we hear of it!

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#1031644 - Sat Jan 25 2014 10:56 AM Re: New Union Jack (UK flag)? [Re: sisterseagull]
C30 Offline
Forum Adept

Registered: Sat Nov 13 2010
Posts: 166
Loc: Lancashire England UK         
Quote "Well, not being American or British, I can only say that if any of the U.S. states leave the Union, it's a pretty easy fix (just remove a star or two from the current flag).", unquote.

In 1861 11 States tried that...........reasoning that a Union voluntarily entered, can be voluntarily left......."Not so" said President Lincoln........so they had a Civil War. So you see if a State (or States) leave the Union, it is not simply a case of removing a star from the flag.!

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#1031713 - Sat Jan 25 2014 11:48 PM Re: New Union Jack (UK flag)? [Re: C30]
Jakeroo Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Sat Aug 30 2008
Posts: 2064
Loc: Alberta Canada
C30: yes am sure the ensuing fallout would no doubt be awful. I was merely speaking about a FLAG fix ~~~

If Quebec separates, the rest of us wouldn't have to change our flag at all. And no, I don't want to get into the ramifications of that situation either, as I don't think politics is really what this thread's theme was at the start.

Your mileage may vary : )


Edited by Jakeroo (Sat Jan 25 2014 11:53 PM)
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#1031750 - Sun Jan 26 2014 05:31 AM Re: New Union Jack (UK flag)? [Re: bloomsby]
sisterseagull Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Tue Aug 16 2011
Posts: 427
Loc: Torquay Devon England UK      
How can a discussion about something as important, to any nation, not become politicised?

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#1031776 - Sun Jan 26 2014 10:33 AM Re: New Union Jack (UK flag)? [Re: bloomsby]
Jakeroo Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Sat Aug 30 2008
Posts: 2064
Loc: Alberta Canada
LOL. Point taken. Perhaps I shouldn't have used that word. But there's quite a difference between simply asking people which flag strikes their fancy and waging civil war (although I'm sure armed conflicts have been started over less "noble" things) ~
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Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense
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#1031885 - Mon Jan 27 2014 08:43 AM Re: New Union Jack (UK flag)? [Re: bloomsby]
dg_dave Online   sleepy
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Registered: Sun Oct 05 2003
Posts: 22259
Loc: near Stafford, Virginia USA  
What are the chances of Scotland leaving the UK? Are there enough votes to support it? Would the Scots be able to stand alone as an independent nation? If they aren't that good, I'd say nothing will come of it.

I know it is a lot of questions, but it's worth looking into...
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#1031889 - Mon Jan 27 2014 09:46 AM Re: New Union Jack (UK flag)? [Re: dg_dave]
flopsymopsy Offline
Moderator

Registered: Sat May 17 2008
Posts: 3712
Loc: Northampton England UK      
Originally Posted By: dg_dave

I know it is a lot of questions, but it's worth looking into...


You think they're not looking into it? Do you seriously think that the process of breaking up the United Kingdom is something anyone would take lightly?

The referendum in Scotland is on 18th September so the discussions/arguments/debates started some time ago. I won't go into them here because that would certainly be regarded as political but you could get some idea by googling on terms such as 'Scottish Independence' or 'Scotland Referendum' and looking at some British and Scottish news reports.
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