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#1043752 - Tue Apr 29 2014 03:54 AM Alaska is no Longer a US State?
Creedy Offline
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Registered: Tue Aug 03 2010
Posts: 596
Loc: Coffs Harbour NSW Australia  
Hello

There's a question in a quiz - the hourly Obscurity - I've just played that asks "What is the westernmost state in the United States?"

The answer, it states, is Alaska - with this additional information: "The state of Alaska is the westernmost state, as the Aleutian Islands in Alaska stretch beyond the International Date Line".

Regardless of the international date line or not, isn't Hawaii still the westernmost state in the US?

I don't get it.

I couldn't give a hoot that I got the answer wrong, but I think the wording of this question needs to be altered to remove any ambiguity.

Toodle pip. I'm off to visit Hawaii before it disappears entirely smilee

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#1043753 - Tue Apr 29 2014 04:17 AM Re: Alaska is no Longer a US State? [Re: Creedy]
looney_tunes Offline
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Registered: Tue Jan 20 2009
Posts: 4288
Loc: Briar Hill Victoria Australia 
Hawaii stretches to 178 degrees West; Alaska goes further west, to reach 172 degrees East. When you look at most maps, Hawaii appears to be situated to the left (west) of Alaska, but that is an illusion - if you trace the lines of longitude, you will see that Alaska does indeed reach further west.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Alaska_in_United_States_%28US50%29.svg
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#1043755 - Tue Apr 29 2014 04:22 AM Re: Alaska is no Longer a US State? [Re: Creedy]
Tizzabelle Offline
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Registered: Sun Jan 17 2010
Posts: 2507
Loc: Sydney NSW Australia         
Alaska is the most northern, western and eastern state of the USA. Because the Aleutian Islands stretch so far west, they cross the International Date Line. Hawaii sits nicely to the east of the Date Line so they can't be the most westerly state. smile
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_points_of_the_United_States
Quote:
Peaked Island, offshore from Cape Wrangell, Attu Island, Alaska 52°55′14″N 172°26′16″E – westernmost point in Alaska and the 50 states of the U.S., by direction of travel, and last sunset (at equinox) in all U.S. territory
Amatignak Island, Alaska 51°16′7″N 179°8′55″W – westernmost point in all of US territory, by longitude.
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#1043762 - Tue Apr 29 2014 05:45 AM Re: Alaska is no Longer a US State? [Re: Creedy]
Creedy Offline
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Registered: Tue Aug 03 2010
Posts: 596
Loc: Coffs Harbour NSW Australia  
Thank you Looney_tunes - that's amazing. I forgot about the bulging shape of the globe.

And thank you as well, Tizzabelle, but what has the Date line got to do with position? Isn't that a time thing, as in calendar days and clocks - OR has it also something to do with geographical locations as well?

No wait, hang on, let me think - if one split the globe along the line of the (crooked) Date Line, and then looked at the two halves separately, then I could see why Alaska could also be considered the most easterly state as well. It's still pretty confusing. I suppose the question is how far is west before it becomes east.

(Saint Elmo is probably thanking heaven I don't own a boat)

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#1043764 - Tue Apr 29 2014 05:48 AM Re: Alaska is no Longer a US State? [Re: Creedy]
Creedy Offline
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Posts: 596
Loc: Coffs Harbour NSW Australia  
I'm going to form a new political party. It'll be called "Bring Back the Flat Earth"

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#1043768 - Tue Apr 29 2014 06:08 AM Re: Alaska is no Longer a US State? [Re: Creedy]
dg_dave Offline
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Registered: Sun Oct 05 2003
Posts: 21878
Loc: near Stafford, Virginia USA  
Originally Posted By: Creedy
I suppose the question is how far is west before it becomes east.


Once a state, province, territory, etc., is at 179°59'59"E, it is considered the easternmost. Part of Alaska is on that particular second of longitude. The 180° meridian is both east and west.
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The day we lose our will to fight is the day we lose our freedom.

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#1043775 - Tue Apr 29 2014 06:41 AM Re: Alaska is no Longer a US State? [Re: Creedy]
Creedy Offline
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Oh dear frown

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#1043783 - Tue Apr 29 2014 07:49 AM Re: Alaska is no Longer a US State? [Re: Creedy]
agony Offline

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Registered: Sat Mar 29 2003
Posts: 13126
Loc: Western Canada
Yes, "how far is west before it becomes east" is exactly the question. After all, if you go far enough west across the Pacific Ocean from the US, eventually you hit China, which is not usually considered "western". There has to be a cut-off, and the International Date Line is that cut-off - the place where west becomes east.

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#1043787 - Tue Apr 29 2014 08:26 AM Re: Alaska is no Longer a US State? [Re: Creedy]
dg_dave Offline
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Registered: Sun Oct 05 2003
Posts: 21878
Loc: near Stafford, Virginia USA  
The only problem is Kiribati sits at about 150°W longitude, but is west of the Date Line, and gives us a 25th time zone (excluding the few :30 or :45 time zones, such as India, Newfoundland, and Nepal). It would be so much easier if the Date Line ran along 180° longitude!
_________________________
The way to get things done is NOT to mind who gets the credit for doing them. --Benjamin Jowett
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. --Eleanor Roosevelt
The day we lose our will to fight is the day we lose our freedom.

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#1043790 - Tue Apr 29 2014 08:29 AM Re: Alaska is no Longer a US State? [Re: Creedy]
Creedy Offline
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Loc: Coffs Harbour NSW Australia  
So it's really more a case of semantics and political interpretation of boundaries, rather than looking at a map, interpreting the evidence of one's eyes, and stating that Alaska is completely on the western side of the United States.

Because, unless those boundaries are imposed upon it by words, a ball or a globe can't logically have an east, west, north or south.

That's amazing. Almost philosophical. I've never thought of it like that before.

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#1043797 - Tue Apr 29 2014 09:04 AM Re: Alaska is no Longer a US State? [Re: Creedy]
agony Offline

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It's just convention that world maps are split through the Pacific Ocean, so that East Asia is on the eastern side, and the west coast of North America is on the western. We could split them through the middle of the Atlantic, instead, in which case North American would be the Far East.

It's a globe - it's all one. Just like there is actually only one ocean, with the continents like big islands in it.

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#1043799 - Tue Apr 29 2014 09:37 AM Re: Alaska is no Longer a US State? [Re: Creedy]
trident Offline
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Registered: Sun Feb 20 2005
Posts: 2389
Loc: Wisconsin USA
A lot of world maps in Asia are split in the Atlantic with the Pacific dominating the center. It really is a matter of perspective.


Edited by trident (Tue Apr 29 2014 09:39 AM)
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#1043826 - Tue Apr 29 2014 12:13 PM Re: Alaska is no Longer a US State? [Re: Creedy]
Tizzabelle Offline
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Registered: Sun Jan 17 2010
Posts: 2507
Loc: Sydney NSW Australia         
I recommend you don't watch this clip, Creedy, if you're already confused. It's one of my favourite scenes from 'The West Wing'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVX-PrBRtTY

This picture will give you a new perspective on the Americas.. *quack*

http://s93.photobucket.com/user/Vixxens/media/DuckyAmericans_zps3652c392.png.html?filters[user]=28992775&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0

And finally, Australia seems to be divided into a terrier and a feeding cat if you split us down the middle…

http://www.buzzhunt.co.uk/2013/11/04/if-...and-a-cat-head/
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#1043881 - Tue Apr 29 2014 06:13 PM Re: Alaska is no Longer a US State? [Re: Creedy]
Creedy Offline
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Registered: Tue Aug 03 2010
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Loc: Coffs Harbour NSW Australia  
Rofl, Tizzabelle, that West Wing clip made perfect sense to me, believe it or not.

Couldn't open the Quack one though.

Re the Oz one, I've always thought the western half of our country looked like a profile of the head of a lioness. Never noticed the east though.

Agony, someone actually tried to tell me the other day that the oceans are all different heights. The Atlantic is lower than the Pacific and so on. I was relieved to find out she wasn't a geography teacher.

Thanks all for your input smile

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#1043887 - Tue Apr 29 2014 06:35 PM Re: Alaska is no Longer a US State? [Re: Creedy]
Tizzabelle Offline
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Registered: Sun Jan 17 2010
Posts: 2507
Loc: Sydney NSW Australia         
Don't know why that link didn't work. Try this one. I just found it and it has a heap of interesting maps of one sort of the other. I won't be able to look at France without thinking of owls from now on!

http://globaldiscussion.net/topic/5085-countries-shaped-like-animals-and-more-weird-maps/

As for ocean heights, try this quote from http://www.brainstuffshow.com/blog/how-does-the-panama-canals-system-of-locks-and-dams-work/

Quote:
The out-flowing undersea of cold and salty water makes the sea level of the Atlantic slightly lower than the Pacific and salinity or halinity of water at the Atlantic higher than the Pacific. This generates a large but slow flow of warmer and fresher upper ocean water from the tropical Pacific to the Indian Ocean through the Indonesian Archipelago to replace the cold and salty Antarctic Bottom Water. This is also known as Haline forcing (net high latitude freshwater gain and low latitude evaporation). This warmer, fresher water from the Pacific flows up through the South Atlantic to Greenland, where it cools off and undergoes evaporative cooling and sinks to the ocean floor, providing a continuous thermohaline circulation.


Then there's this site: http://www.tectonic-forces.org/pt12.htm

Cup of tea, a Bex and a good lie down might be required.. wink
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A platypus lays eggs and produces milk - it can make its own custard wink

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#1043888 - Tue Apr 29 2014 06:40 PM Re: Alaska is no Longer a US State? [Re: Creedy]
MiraJane Offline
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Registered: Tue Apr 30 2013
Posts: 1178
Loc: New York USA
Originally Posted By: Creedy
I'm going to form a new political party. It'll be called "Bring Back the Flat Earth"



Here ya go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_Society



Soon to be taught in American schools along with creationism.


Edited by MiraJane (Tue Apr 29 2014 06:40 PM)

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#1043893 - Tue Apr 29 2014 06:45 PM Re: Alaska is no Longer a US State? [Re: Creedy]
Creedy Offline
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Registered: Tue Aug 03 2010
Posts: 596
Loc: Coffs Harbour NSW Australia  
I loved the old maps, Tizzabelle - they should teach some of them to children so they can remember their outlines -but no, noooooo, the oceans can't be different heights! It's not logical.

I can't take any more!

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#1043895 - Tue Apr 29 2014 06:51 PM Re: Alaska is no Longer a US State? [Re: Creedy]
Creedy Offline
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Registered: Tue Aug 03 2010
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Loc: Coffs Harbour NSW Australia  
Are you serious, MiraJane? They're actually going to teach kids about a flat earth?

The world's gone nuts if so.

This is obviously a result of excessive dieting and diet pills.

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#1043906 - Tue Apr 29 2014 08:59 PM Re: Alaska is no Longer a US State? [Re: Creedy]
MiraJane Offline
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Registered: Tue Apr 30 2013
Posts: 1178
Loc: New York USA
Originally Posted By: Creedy
Are you serious, MiraJane? They're actually going to teach kids about a flat earth?

The world's gone nuts if so.

This is obviously a result of excessive dieting and diet pills.



I wouldn't be surprised if I found it is being taught somewhere in the USA. Some of what is being taught in the schools is multiple huge leaps backwards.

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#1043908 - Tue Apr 29 2014 09:32 PM Re: Alaska is no Longer a US State? [Re: MiraJane]
dg_dave Offline
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Registered: Sun Oct 05 2003
Posts: 21878
Loc: near Stafford, Virginia USA  
Originally Posted By: MiraJane
I wouldn't be surprised if I found it is being taught somewhere in the USA. Some of what is being taught in the schools is multiple huge leaps backwards.


Common core taught in New York?
_________________________
The way to get things done is NOT to mind who gets the credit for doing them. --Benjamin Jowett
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. --Eleanor Roosevelt
The day we lose our will to fight is the day we lose our freedom.

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#1043918 - Tue Apr 29 2014 11:34 PM Re: Alaska is no Longer a US State? [Re: Creedy]
nautilator Offline
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Registered: Mon Jan 09 2012
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Loc: Pennsylvania USA
The thread title is disappointing; Alaska is still a part of the US.

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#1043927 - Wed Apr 30 2014 01:51 AM Re: Alaska is no Longer a US State? [Re: Creedy]
Creedy Offline
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Registered: Tue Aug 03 2010
Posts: 596
Loc: Coffs Harbour NSW Australia  
If you will note, the title for this thread has a question mark. That implies I was asking a question. Why is a genuine question disappointing?

Please note: I also used a question mark above.

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#1043949 - Wed Apr 30 2014 05:51 AM Re: Alaska is no Longer a US State? [Re: nautilator]
dsimpy Offline
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Registered: Sun Jan 24 2010
Posts: 475
Loc: Belfast Ireland
Originally Posted By: nautilator
The thread title is disappointing; Alaska is still a part of the US.


For a moment I thought Vladimir Putin must have re-annexed it. smile
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#1043950 - Wed Apr 30 2014 06:21 AM Re: Alaska is no Longer a US State? [Re: Creedy]
Creedy Offline
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ROFL!

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#1043966 - Wed Apr 30 2014 08:35 AM Re: Alaska is no Longer a US State? [Re: Tizzabelle]
flopsymopsy Offline
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Registered: Sat May 17 2008
Posts: 3598
Loc: Northampton England UK      
Originally Posted By: Tizzabelle

And finally, Australia seems to be divided into a terrier and a feeding cat if you split us down the middle…

http://www.buzzhunt.co.uk/2013/11/04/if-...and-a-cat-head/


That made me laugh out loud. I take it you don't plan on visiting Tasmania ever again? At least it said cat food and not fur ball. wink
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