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#1117009 - Sat Nov 21 2015 10:55 PM Windows 10
dg_dave Offline
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Loc: near Stafford, Virginia USA  
Has anyone downloaded the update for Windows 10 yet? I just finished mine, and while I feel it isn't as good as Win7, it is a far cry better than Win8 or Win8.1.
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#1117095 - Sun Nov 22 2015 04:27 PM Re: Windows 10
tellywellies Offline
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I have Dave. Some games that worked in Windows 8.1 either don't work at all or don't work so well on Windows 10. Apart from that, all is running OK.

The upgrade doesn't go well for everyone, probably due to incompatibility with existing programs or hardware. Where this is the case, a clean installation of Windows 10 often clears most (or all) problems. I think a clean installation is always better than an upgrade for those who feel comfortable about reinstalling everything. It can mean a cleaner and less buggy operating system. I have upgraded this way.

It is now possible to download the file for making a Windows 10 installation disk from the Microsoft site and use a Windows 7 or 8.1 key for activating it.

I tried Windows 10 when it was first released and found it not too good but we're a few months down the line with it now and it now seems better. The first major upgrade was released on November the 12th. I expect this would have been included in your upgrade but if not. it should be offered soon.

Right-click on the Start button, select 'Run', type winver in the box and press OK. The Windows version number will be displayed. The latest is: Version 1511 (OS Build 10586. 11)


Edited by tellywellies (Sun Nov 22 2015 04:36 PM)
Edit Reason: Typo
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#1117097 - Sun Nov 22 2015 04:36 PM Re: Windows 10
dippo Offline
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Posts: 735
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Mine says Version 10.0 (Build 10240) - and it ran updates this afternoon.

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#1117098 - Sun Nov 22 2015 04:47 PM Re: Windows 10
tellywellies Offline
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Posts: 5398
Loc: South of England
The update is a big one that goes through all the steps of the original Windows 10 upgrade. With it being so big, I think the download is being phased. It should end up with all Windows 10 users in the end.

Checking manually for updates might trigger the download. Be sure to have plenty of time to spare before going ahead. The download and installation could take an hour or two.
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#1117101 - Sun Nov 22 2015 05:23 PM Re: Windows 10
dippo Offline
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Thanks - I won't try it tonight then!

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#1117103 - Sun Nov 22 2015 05:57 PM Re: Windows 10
Verbonica Offline
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Registered: Tue May 16 2006
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I get that "download Windows 10" message all the time. I have always passed it up. I wonder, is it really free, or just a free trial?

I'm not tech savvy, would I just be asking for trouble by downloading it or am I just as well off keeping Windows 7 Home Premium?

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#1117129 - Mon Nov 23 2015 02:08 AM Re: Windows 10
tellywellies Offline
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Posts: 5398
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If the current operating system is running OK, there is something to be said for skipping the upgrade. As said, it doesn't go well for everyone. The system could always end up being one of those cases. Having said that, most people don't have any trouble at all and end up with an operating system they are quite happy with. I read the upgrade is going from the 'Optional' status to 'Recommended' in the new year and it might become difficult to avoid the Windows Update that initiates the upgrade automatically. Not sure on this point though.

If the upgrade does cause problems or you don't like Windows 10, it is possible to revert to the previous operating system. This option is only given for one month after the upgrade. If you wanted to go back after that period, it would have to be done by:

* Using an installation disk for Windows 7 or 8.1 and reinstalling everything.
* Using the recovery disk/partition to restore the computer to the state it was in when first bought.

The upgrade is free until the end of July 2016, this being one year after Windows 10's initial release date. It would have to be paid for after that time (unless the period is extended by Microsoft). Having upgraded within the year, there will be no future charges. The operating system is free for the life of the computer it is installed on. This even includes reinstalling windows 10 on that computer if it was ever necessary.

I think Microsoft benefits ultimately by only having to maintain/support one operating system. Also, they will make money from the Windows Store and by tying users into Microsoft generally, so the ultimate goal isn't entirely without strings I'd say.

Also best to be aware of privacy concerns with Windows 10. Microsoft will want to know how the OS is being used and information about this is fed back to them. This is said to help them produce a better OS with future patches etc. Nonetheless there is a concern over what is fed back and you have to decide if this is a worry or not.

All of the above has been written about a lot on the Internet. I know that most people just want to turn on a computer and use it but when a new OS is released, I would recommend setting aside a few hours for reading a bit about it.

No links but use search terms such as: windows 10 free - windows 10 privacy - windows 10 advantages disadvantages - windows telemetry.
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#1117132 - Mon Nov 23 2015 03:34 AM Re: Windows 10
Verbonica Offline
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Registered: Tue May 16 2006
Posts: 306
Loc: Napa Valley
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Thanks so much, tellywellies, that was very informative. Yes, it looks like I will have to do some reading up on the thing.

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#1117156 - Mon Nov 23 2015 08:20 AM Re: Windows 10
flopsymopsy Offline

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Posts: 4437
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Tellywellies beat me to it, I was too tired to reply last night but my basic message would have been to read up on it and find out if you want to switch now. I'm not sure about Windows 7 users but I'm pretty sure that at some point next year Windows 8/8.1 users won't have a choice and the upgrade will become a requirement. However the dates for these things do change so it's worth keeping an eye on the tech reports in the press.

As well as searching for general stories about Windows 10, I searched for information on combinations I thought might be problematic. Would my old, creaking version of Photoshop still work? What about my version of Office? Anti-virus? I discovered that the support/backup package for this almost new laptop would need patching before I upgraded to Win10 and again afterwards and that my anti-virus would stop working after the upgrade but would automatically send me a prompt about a compatible version after three hours. Three hours on the Internet without anti-virus? No thanks - as soon as I upgraded I downloaded the new version.

Anyway, I upgraded within a couple of weeks from launch; I'm not usually an early adopter but this was a pretty new machine, all my files were on external drives, and I didn't want to spend any more time learning 8.1 if I was going to get rid of it so I took a deep breath and pressed the 'Install' button. It took about an hour; I downloaded the anti-virus, installed the Dell patch, and a couple of new drivers and ... it worked. It's been working ever since.

There are things I don't like about it - the advertising on some 'free' games and apps, the snooping, and the occasional illogicality of what feature is now found where? but it's fast, it's smooth, and it works. You will need to judge the snooping for yourself. They all do it, all the big guys that is, so do you mind if Microsoft tracks where you are and supplies Cortana's search results based on that if one trade off is getting a free tracking service so that if you lose your laptop/it gets stolen, it can be found? Do you have unlimited bandwidth? If so you probably won't mind if Microsoft uses your machine in its peer-to-peer system to download updates more quickly. However, if your bandwidth is limited or you don't want Microsoft to install updates without telling you what they are, you can turn the file-sharing feature off. There are other things that still need fixing (or for smart techies to find workarounds) but what irritates me may not be a problem for you.

I liked Windows 7 but I had to get a new machine and it came with 8.1 so I chose to upgrade. However, I think Windows 10 is pretty good and it is very fast.
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#1117160 - Mon Nov 23 2015 10:06 AM Re: Windows 10
dippo Offline
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Registered: Sat Jun 14 2008
Posts: 735
Loc: London
England UK         
I did a manual check for updates today, but it tells me I have the latest version.

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#1117161 - Mon Nov 23 2015 10:52 AM Re: Windows 10
dg_dave Offline
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Registered: Sun Oct 05 2003
Posts: 23581
Loc: near Stafford, Virginia USA  
Originally Posted By: flopsymopsy
I liked Windows 7 but I had to get a new machine and it came with 8.1 so I chose to upgrade. However, I think Windows 10 is pretty good and it is very fast.


I'm with you, flopsy...I like 7, but hated 8 and 8.1 immensely.
_________________________
The way to get things done is NOT to mind who gets the credit for doing them. --Benjamin Jowett
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. --Eleanor Roosevelt
The day we lose our will to fight is the day we lose our freedom.

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#1117190 - Mon Nov 23 2015 04:16 PM Re: Windows 10
mehaul Offline
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Registered: Wed Feb 03 2010
Posts: 6516
Loc: Florida USA
tw,
I have a question about that 'Save it to a disk' option. At home I have dial-up. I have two machines, both running 8.1. One of the machines is a laptop I have yet to take to a free wifi location to try a download of W10. My many attempts so far have been done on my dial-up ISP at 5kbps. The most of the Windows 10 download I have been able to transfer is 5% after many hours. Usually something then interrupts the download and Windows then starts from square one again. I'm getting nowhere that way (Why doesn't Microsoft set up a file and build on it at each time I say go?)

So, my questions (Sorry, it began as 1 but went to 2 as I typed) then are;
1st, you said that it could be downloaded to a disk. If I go to my free wifi spot for the fast internet access with my laptop, will I be able to save the download to a thumb drive and then share it between machines?

2nd Have I incorrectly arranged the slow speed download and that's why I'm starting from scratch each time?

Thanks if you have any advice in these matters.
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#1117209 - Tue Nov 24 2015 12:06 AM Re: Windows 10
tellywellies Offline
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Registered: Sat Apr 13 2002
Posts: 5398
Loc: South of England
Do you have a '$Windows.~BT' folder on the C: drive? This is the location that the Windows 10 upgrade files are automatically downloaded to in the background. I don't know if these files are downloaded in one go or if they download little by little depending on if Internet connection is present. I rather think the latter is the case but I'm not sure. Whatever, when all the necessary files are downloaded into that folder, the option to start the upgrade is offered.

If they are downloaded little by little, I'd think the process would take ages on dial-up connection speeds because the folder ends up being about 4 gigabytes in size. If that folder is present, then it might be worth keeping an eye on it. Check to see if it gradually grows in size over a period of time. It might only be a case of waiting for the needed files to download.

When downloading the upgrade manually, as far as I know, there is no way to download it incrementally. The download will start again from the beginning if it is interrupted for any reason. So yes, you would need to go somewhere with a reasonably fast connection to download the ISO file needed for making the installation media. Another option would be to ask a friend who has a fast Internet connection to download it for you? It does end up being an installation disk or USB stick that can be used on any computer.

This wasn't always the case but activation of Windows 10 has changed recently. It used to be that Windows 10 would only activate successfully if upgrading an existing Windows 7 or 8.1 operating system. During this process, the computer hardware would be profiled and the information that identifies your computer stored on Microsoft's servers. In short, Microsoft then knows that you and your computer qualify for Windows 10 forever.

This means that if you then want to do a clean installation Windows 10, you could format the C: drive and reinstall Windows 10 using a pure Windows 10 installation media (USB stick or CD). At the end of the process, the operating system would be activated automatically without the need for key numbers because Microsoft knows the computer (I have been down this path personally).

However, I read that Microsoft have now made it possible to use either a Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 product key for activation purposes. This would mean that the same downloaded installation file (written to a USB stick or CD) could be used for multiple computers. Each computer will have its own licence number and just enter that when using the installation disk on them.

I haven't put this to the test myself but here are a couple of links that may be useful. One further explaining what is written above and another linking to the Microsoft Windows 10 Media Creation Tool. I hope you can find a place with a fast enough connection to download and use it (updates will need to download during the installation procedure):

https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows...key-to-activate

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

Edit: Windows 10 is constantly changing at present. It's as well to be aware of any news. This about Microsoft withdrawing the latest ISO that people download for upgrading to Windows 10:

http://news.softpedia.com/news/microsoft...es-496556.shtml


Edited by tellywellies (Tue Nov 24 2015 01:07 AM)
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#1117260 - Tue Nov 24 2015 09:28 AM Re: Windows 10
flopsymopsy Offline

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Posts: 4437
Loc: Northampton England UK
One other thing. If you read the Softpedia article quoted by Tellywellies you'll see that Microsoft has changed the Win 10 Media Creation Tool - and not for the better. I got a Win 10 update to Version 1511 Build 10586.3 copyright 2016 last week, I read up on what it was supposed to do and thought no more about it - apart from thinking how it's clearly now possible for American corporations to copyright the future. smile This update was large - and took approx. the same time to download/install as the original upgrade from 8.1 but that may have been partly because it didn't stop me using the computer at the same time. After that update the Media Creation Tool then available would let me create a file containing Win 10 with all its updates up to and including Build 10586.3...

Then on Saturday I got another, smaller update which put the build number back to Build 10586.11 copyright 2015 and changed the Media Creation Tool. So now if I create an ISO or save the Tool to a USB stick, all it will do is allow me to create an installation copy of the original Windows 10... and that means I'd have to go through the process of downloading the updates again. So, Mehaul, if you have dial up, as things stand you will need to access a faster download speed not only to get Windows 10 but also to install the updates. Which means at least two visits to your friendly wifi connection.
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#1117266 - Tue Nov 24 2015 10:37 AM Re: Windows 10
tellywellies Offline
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Registered: Sat Apr 13 2002
Posts: 5398
Loc: South of England
Yes, the ISO for the latest build was made unavailable possibly because of an activation glitch and the only way to get it is as you say Flopsy, by upgrading from the original Windows 10. I only read about the latest ISO being unavailable a bit after posting the reply to Mehaul, hence the link to the Softpedia article being added.

I suppose that once whatever the problem is with the latest build is sorted out, it will be made available again. Goodness knows when that will be. Maybe best to wait until it is before considering an upgrade via an ISO. I have a feeling that activating using a Windows 7 or 8 key will only work with the latest W.10 ISO that has now been temporarily withdrawn by Microsoft. Perhaps best to wait until it's available again for that reason too.

I fell foul of the activation trap back in July. I wanted to upgrade to see what the final release of Windows 10 was like, so downloaded the W.10 ISO and clean installed it. I thought at the time that my Windows 8.1 key would be proof of qualification for Windows 10 and entered it when the key number was requested.

This wasn't good enough apparently, so I phoned Microsoft. They agreed that my purchase of Windows 8 was genuine and so was the key number. However, they refused to activate my new Windows 10 installation anyway. The options given were to buy a new key or reinstall Windows 8.1 and upgrade to Windows 10 from there. I chose the latter of course and during the 8.1 installation, I was offered the upgrade to Windows 10. I accepted this and when the installation was complete, Windows 10 was activated.

What a palaver though! I still don't see why they wouldn't activate Windows 10 for me without doing that. I supposed it might have just bypassed the set-up they had in place for upgrading and there was no mechanism to do it any other way. This is why I think being able to activate a new and clean installation of Windows 10 with a Windows 7 or 8 key is an improvement ..if it all works OK. I think this should have been an option from the start.
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#1117305 - Tue Nov 24 2015 02:51 PM Re: Windows 10
mehaul Offline
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Registered: Wed Feb 03 2010
Posts: 6516
Loc: Florida USA
I give thanks to and for both of you in sharing your knowledge in this matter. Happy Thanksgiving to both of you.


Sounds like it might be easier to wait and buy a new platform with the Windows 10 installed.
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#1117332 - Tue Nov 24 2015 05:40 PM Re: Windows 10
tellywellies Offline
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Registered: Sat Apr 13 2002
Posts: 5398
Loc: South of England
Build 10586 has been made available for download again. That didn't take long! An explanation here:

http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-r...ovember-update/

The article confirms that new clean installations can be activated using a Windows 7 or 8 product key.
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#1118403 - Wed Dec 02 2015 08:52 PM Re: Windows 10
Bruyere Offline
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Registered: Sat Feb 10 2001
Posts: 18792
Loc: California USA
I upgraded to Windows 10 from seven and was in limbo for about four days because of it and had it not been for the smaller computer being Windows seven still, I could not have looked up fixes for it. It was stuck between the worlds, sigh, and I could only access it via Safe Mode and from there, couldn't download any fixes or anything.
I worked very hard to get it to roll back and was greatly relieved. It did not appear the way they said it would at all in terms of rolling back procedure to go back to your original version.

Anyway, I'm going to settle for this one for a while longer.
I lost three days of work on that thing.
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#1118439 - Thu Dec 03 2015 06:25 AM Re: Windows 10
dippo Offline
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Registered: Sat Jun 14 2008
Posts: 735
Loc: London
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My computer updated automatically to 10586 this morning. As you said earlier, the installation took about 90 minutes.

I do not like the automatic installation of upgrades. I switched on my computer this morning, and it powered up and loaded my home screen, but then didn't seem to want to do anything - it just sat there with a circle spinning at the end of the cursor. After a few minutes of this, I did a restart, and then got a message saying upgrades had been interrupted. If I had known it was updating, I may have waited, but there were no messages to say what was happening. I definitely preferred the old system where the user chose when to install updates.

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#1118457 - Thu Dec 03 2015 08:16 AM Re: Windows 10
flopsymopsy Offline

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I got round the auto update problem by changing some settings. Firstly, Microsoft is using a peer-to-peer system for sending updates so it can use your bandwidth without telling you. You can stop this by going to Settings/Updates&Security/Windows Update and scroll down to Advanced Options. Then click on "Choose how updates are delivered" and change the main setting to OFF. Below this there are two radio buttons - select "PCs on my local network".

Next, under Settings/Network/Wifi/Advanced Options set the Metered Connection to ON. Microsoft will then think you have a data cap or are using a phone and won't auto-update. When updates are available you will get a notification that it can't update - at which point you need to go to Windows Update and click on the download/install button.

These changes still won't tell you what the updates are or let you opt out of any of them but at least it won't start the download process while you're playing a timed game. smile
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#1118465 - Thu Dec 03 2015 09:09 AM Re: Windows 10
dippo Offline
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Registered: Sat Jun 14 2008
Posts: 735
Loc: London
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Thanks Flopsy.

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#1118501 - Thu Dec 03 2015 03:24 PM Re: Windows 10
Bruyere Offline
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Registered: Sat Feb 10 2001
Posts: 18792
Loc: California USA
Oh I called the new stall the blue screen of death with window and string of pearls. The new circle being the Windows ten stalling over and over.
As opposed to the way others did the roll back I had to click on previous build to get mine back.

I am so thankful to get the old one back.

Now I will only get the new one if I purchase a new computer anytime soon.
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#1180287 - Sat Nov 04 2017 02:50 PM Re: Windows 10
OldManJack Offline
Learning the ropes...

Registered: Wed Nov 01 2017
Posts: 1
Has anyone downloaded Windows 11?

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#1180325 - Sat Nov 04 2017 08:39 PM Re: Windows 10
flopsymopsy Offline

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Registered: Sat May 17 2008
Posts: 4437
Loc: Northampton England UK
There's no such thing as Windows 11 and no information on whether there ever will be. It's true that Microsoft have made some significant changes to Windows 10 since it was first released but these have been issued as updates to Windows 10.

If you mean the Microsoft Browser 'Internet Explorer 11' then anyone who has Windows 10 should have that but Microsoft's main browser now is 'Edge'.
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#1180327 - Sun Nov 05 2017 12:05 AM Re: Windows 10
dg_dave Offline
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Registered: Sun Oct 05 2003
Posts: 23581
Loc: near Stafford, Virginia USA  
Originally Posted By: flopsymopsy
There's no such thing as Windows 11 and no information on whether there ever will be.


According to this site, there will never be a Windows 11. Yes, that story is over two years old, and things may change in the future, but this is all I can find. As for IE, as flopsy said, IE 11 is the latest version of that program. I don't like MS Edge at all.


Edited by dg_dave (Sun Nov 05 2017 12:06 AM)
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The way to get things done is NOT to mind who gets the credit for doing them. --Benjamin Jowett
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The day we lose our will to fight is the day we lose our freedom.

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