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#1132999 - Thu Apr 14 2016 05:30 AM Team heroes categories
Dizart Offline
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Registered: Fri Mar 16 2007
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Loc: Buckhaven Fife Scotland UK   
Can we get sports back in here please? No way would they be as obscure as "Authors H-K", plus the plephora of Star Wars and LOTR categories which come up all the time.

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#1133040 - Thu Apr 14 2016 03:04 PM Re: Team heroes categories [Re: Dizart]
nasty_liar Offline
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Posts: 313
Loc: Sheffield Yorkshire England UK
I must be honest, when I saw this post I thought, "oh, what are you talking about?".

But I've looked through my teams team records in heroes and there is not a single sports category to be found! Our records go back about two and a bit years since we became a medium sized team....

So I'm also wondering.... Why no sports?

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#1152387 - Mon Nov 28 2016 11:03 PM Re: Team heroes categories [Re: Dizart]
MrNobody97 Offline
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Registered: Sun Dec 28 2014
Posts: 209
Loc: Illinois
Two questions about the Team Heroes game, here. How many categories does it have? (Our team record book has 272 entries, though I'm sure there are at least a few topics our team has never yet played.) And is the day's topic chosen at random?

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#1152394 - Tue Nov 29 2016 12:22 AM Re: Team heroes categories [Re: Dizart]
kyleisalive Offline
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Quote:
And is the day's topic chosen at random?


Yes, from a preset list of topics so that we don't see really specific ones like '"Golden Girls" - Season 2' or the 'Les Miserables Tenth Anniversary Concert'.

Quote:
So I'm also wondering.... Why no sports?


For the same reason Video Games was disallowed from most daily/hourly games. It's too much of a niche topic for daily/hourly trivia.

Unlike Old Testament Bible trivia. :\


Edited by kyleisalive (Tue Nov 29 2016 12:23 AM)
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#1152399 - Tue Nov 29 2016 01:14 AM Re: Team heroes categories [Re: Dizart]
MrNobody97 Offline
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Thank you. I get the impression (from the answer to nasty_liar's question) that which topics (or subtopics) are considered "too niche" can be a difficult call, if not perhaps somewhat contentious.


Edited by MrNobody97 (Tue Nov 29 2016 02:21 AM)

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#1152407 - Tue Nov 29 2016 04:57 AM Re: Team heroes categories [Re: Dizart]
kyleisalive Offline
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Absolutely.
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#1152545 - Wed Nov 30 2016 03:53 PM Re: Team heroes categories [Re: Dizart]
terraorca Offline
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Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see an answer or an explanation to post #1132999. It was Dizart asking why there are no Sports Team Heroes Quizzes. It's obviously a big part of FT, and wouldn't be considered a niche, I wouldn't think.
Sports!

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#1152556 - Wed Nov 30 2016 04:31 PM Re: Team heroes categories [Re: Dizart]
lonely-lady Offline
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See post #1152394
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#1152573 - Wed Nov 30 2016 11:34 PM Re: Team heroes categories [Re: lonely-lady]
nasty_liar Offline
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Originally Posted By: lonely-lady
See post #1152394


That may have been an answer but I think even Kyle would agree it's not really an explanation. Sports is no more niche than some of the Heroes topics we get, just take yesterday for an example, nervous system! Or sometimes we get an individual musical... I'm not against those topics, I just don't see why sports ones can't be included. They are in who's the expert....

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#1152580 - Thu Dec 01 2016 12:43 AM Re: Team heroes categories [Re: Dizart]
kyleisalive Offline
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Registered: Mon Mar 07 2005
Posts: 6622
Loc: Toronto, Canada, eh!
Unfortunately it is the explanation.

Over the past fifteen or so years the topic has been brought up as to why certain categories are excluded entirely from our daily and hourly games and I always end up chiming in about VG specifically. The reasoning I've been told on here and otherwise is that VG is too niche. And I get that-- VG is not for everyone. That being said, I've always argued that I feel the same way about Religion, Sports, etc. etc. etc.

If you've sent in anything to our Single Question game in the past, you may have noticed that VG is not a category that is not explicitly included. In fact, VG questions are categorized under Entertainment. The only daily or hourly game to feature VG questions pulled directly from what our authors write is WTE, and that only started happening a few years ago, and even then on a very limited basis. The argument is that people who want VG questions should be experts in those niche subsections and that most people do not want to find them in their regular trivia sets.

Most of our site's Sports questions are about specific matches, records, and numbers or, otherwise, roster details stretching back through a century of dozens of sports. Is it trivia? Yes. But it is niche. It's very specific. I would not hesitate to say that the basics are already covered to death in the Piece of Cake Sports playthroughs. Anything beyond that would be a stretch even for avid trivia players.

I could argue both sides of this to death, but I've done that before and I still don't really have an opportunity to play much VG trivia against people. I don't really play the dailies/hourlies because I only really care to play on particular topics. We still offer them on the site, just not for the tournament games.

The video game industry earns hundreds of billions of dollars a year and is rolling out virtual reality, but it's too much of a niche, unfortunately.


Edited by kyleisalive (Thu Dec 01 2016 12:43 AM)
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#1152583 - Thu Dec 01 2016 01:49 AM Re: Team heroes categories [Re: Dizart]
MrNobody97 Offline
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I would venture that one of many factors can make something a "niche" topic, at least within FunTrivia context. If the site came to have a massive influx of video-game players and the category became hugely popular, the category's "niche status" might be revisited. Which is to say, if a given category were to clearly become progressively more and more -- or less and less -- popular here, and consistently so over a long period, I can imagine it might lead to discussion of that topic's "status."

So in one way, I'm guessing categories can be determined to be "niche" by virtue of the number of people who play them.

I also imagine some categories are "inherently 'niche'" by virtue of the topic they fall under. There are some specific (sub)topics you really can only ask so many distinct questions about, whether the topic itself is popular or not.

Likewise with the content. Perhaps some topics are "niche" not because they're narrow in scope, but limited in coverage. I suspect there are at least a few topics floating around that could become markedly better -- if more and/or better quizzes are written for them -- but thus far don't have enough substantive quizzes / questions, in Terry and the editors' judgment. (I'm sure everyone, editors and non-, have topics they'd love to see get more coverage.)

TL;DR -- I think some topics are "niche" almost by definition; some are by lack of player interest; some are by lack of available content; and some are by lack of created content. In other words, some are deemed "niche" by necessity; some are proven so by experience.

An inexact science, to be sure, but also not one that's "set in stone." The site has evolved and changed with time and will always do so to some extent or another. Some people seem to think there ought be more objective criteria for editors to use, but it seems to me that some modicum of subjectivity is both necessary and beneficial. At the end of the day, you want a diversity of info and "game modes" that will appeal to the widest range of players. In that regard, FT has something for everyone.

Quizzes aside, the Expert Game is probably the most wide-reaching. It has, what, some 700+ topics now? -- ranging from broad and easy to very specific and very challenging.

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#1152599 - Thu Dec 01 2016 10:01 AM Re: Team heroes categories [Re: kyleisalive]
nasty_liar Offline
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Registered: Sun Oct 05 2008
Posts: 313
Loc: Sheffield Yorkshire England UK
Originally Posted By: kyleisalive
Unfortunately it is the explanation.


Fair enough!

Putting Video Games aside for a second (although I don't think we should actually) as it is an unpopular category sitewide (if you look at quiz playing statistics you find most players have played little or no quizzes on Video Games) I would like to make a case for Team Heroes.

Sports appears in Who's the Expert and Heroes is essentially Expert for teams isn't it? So why the disconnect? Sports also appears in the piece of cake and who said the smartest games where other unpopular categories are not in rotation (entertainment and video games). It is also a starred category in Global whereas Entertainment and are generally pretty good when sports topics are involved in who's the expert! I would put this in contrast with a topic that turns up every so often in Team Heroes, Manga. I'm fine with Manga appearing, but it is found very tough by the majority of players so you could say it is too niche.



Edited by nasty_liar (Thu Dec 01 2016 01:25 PM)
Edit Reason: Underlining my error, should read Who's the smartest but evidently my iPad knew better

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#1152700 - Fri Dec 02 2016 05:43 AM Re: Team heroes categories [Re: Dizart]
samak Offline
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Registered: Thu Dec 10 2015
Posts: 17
Rather than adding categories like Sports / Video Games etc, I would exclude them and more e.g. LOTR, Harry Bloody Potter, all modern dystopian / vampire authors etc. I regard all of these as niche.

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#1152702 - Fri Dec 02 2016 08:29 AM Re: Team heroes categories [Re: Dizart]
nasty_liar Offline
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Registered: Sun Oct 05 2008
Posts: 313
Loc: Sheffield Yorkshire England UK
I would like more niche categories not less! Then we might get more team wins based on knowledge rather than just speed.

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#1152704 - Fri Dec 02 2016 08:59 AM Re: Team heroes categories [Re: Dizart]
mehaul Offline
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Registered: Wed Feb 03 2010
Posts: 6368
Loc: Florida USA
That would go like this?
None on the 300 player team considers themselves knowledgeable enough to compete in the category so 300 players just barrage the play with a planned set of replies (you go a,a,c,a,d..., then you go a,b,c,c,d..., then you go a,d,c,c,b...) And you'll have teams winning with no one even reading a word of the quiz but earning times of 20 secs and less. That 300 team would surely garner top 7 scores easily.
No, I don't think niche knowledge is served best that way.


Edited by mehaul (Fri Dec 02 2016 09:02 AM)
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#1152732 - Fri Dec 02 2016 03:10 PM Re: Team heroes categories [Re: Dizart]
HairyBear Offline
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Registered: Fri Sep 01 2006
Posts: 437
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Actually that wouldn't help them at all, mehaul, since each player gets a different set of questions, and even when they get the same questions, they get them in different order, and they get the answers in different order. I'm okay with the categories as they are, even though less than 1/10th of 1% of the world's population have ever been to see Les Miserables on stage. Difficult categories tend to shake up the top ten teams in a way regular categories never do. I'd like to see some of the more obscure categories come up again so our team can improve their historical record, like when was the last time the Simpsons showed up as a category? In fact, I don't think any of the individual television shows have shown up as a category in quite some time even though individual musicals still do, despite the fact far more people watch TV than go to the theatre. As for religion, that's one of my and my team's best categories, so I'd oppose getting rid of that. In re: sports and video games, wouldn't it be possible to add those two as top level domains as categories? Then only the very simplest questions (95-98% accuracy) would be pulled for the games, but would still be tough enough for a general audience. This is essentially what happens in all the literature subcategories, the games are very tough, but when you look at the results, the questions have a 95% accuracy rating, essentially because only those who have read the book take the quiz.

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#1152735 - Fri Dec 02 2016 04:23 PM Re: Team heroes categories [Re: Dizart]
mehaul Offline
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Posts: 6368
Loc: Florida USA
Sorry to disagree hairybear on your birthday. There wouldn't just be a mix of answers, there would be the a,a,a,a,a,a... and b,b,b,b,b,b...If you have all the possible arrangements of a,b,c&d covered a couple of times over, chances are a good many will still come in at 10/10 or 9/10 in 15 seconds.
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#1152746 - Fri Dec 02 2016 06:19 PM Re: Team heroes categories [Re: mehaul]
CmdrK Offline
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Posts: 1825
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15 questions with 4 possible answers each, that's 1,365 combinations. Which team were you talking about?


Edited by CmdrK (Fri Dec 02 2016 06:23 PM)
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#1152772 - Fri Dec 02 2016 08:31 PM Re: Team heroes categories [Re: Dizart]
kyleisalive Offline
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Registered: Mon Mar 07 2005
Posts: 6622
Loc: Toronto, Canada, eh!
Quote:
There wouldn't just be a mix of answers, there would be the a,a,a,a,a,a... and b,b,b,b,b,b...If you have all the possible arrangements of a,b,c&d covered a couple of times over, chances are a good many will still come in at 10/10 or 9/10 in 15 seconds.


Wouldn't this be made completely irrelevant by the notion that each player gets a different set of questions? There's nothing balancing out selections of a, b, c, and d between them, and each question asks something completely different. No question is created equal.

I agree with HairyBear that i'd love to see more subcategories not only in Heroes, but in other games as well.


Edited by kyleisalive (Fri Dec 02 2016 08:32 PM)
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#1152774 - Fri Dec 02 2016 08:40 PM Re: Team heroes categories [Re: Dizart]
MrNobody97 Offline
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Posts: 209
Loc: Illinois
So, uh, how many categories DOES the Hero game currently use?

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#1152813 - Sat Dec 03 2016 12:53 AM Re: Team heroes categories [Re: Dizart]
jasa9092 Offline
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Registered: Tue Dec 19 2006
Posts: 65
Loc: Illinois USA
I would like to see every category in the Heroes game. It would be nice to have all team members get to show their strengths and get their share of playing something they are interested in. Some topics we already have seem pretty specific to me (U.S. Civil War, U.K Royals, Les Miserables, Eurovision Song Contest, etc). So why not let a sports fan, TV watcher, or video games expert get their glory every once in a while?

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#1152814 - Sat Dec 03 2016 01:31 AM Re: Team heroes categories [Re: jasa9092]
nasty_liar Offline
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Posts: 313
Loc: Sheffield Yorkshire England UK
Yes! My thoughts exactly!

If there were more categories in circulation perhaps there would be marginally less chance of getting the same topics repeated so soon. In the last four weeks we've had both Flags and Symbols and Non-fiction twice. Or maybe that's a tweak Terry could make to prevent deselection of a topic until a certain interval after it has been seen.... say two months? Three?


Edited by nasty_liar (Sat Dec 03 2016 01:35 AM)
Edit Reason: Inspiration

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#1152831 - Sat Dec 03 2016 08:11 AM Re: Team heroes categories [Re: Dizart]
kyleisalive Offline
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Registered: Mon Mar 07 2005
Posts: 6622
Loc: Toronto, Canada, eh!
Quote:
I would like to see every category in the Heroes game.


This might be a bit much. Part of the curation is to ensure that we aren't facing weeks and weeks of extremely narrow topics that likely won't appeal to 99% of players. It would be a shame to see no one enjoying the game because they have:

Monday: Lano and Woodley
Tuesday: Tecmo Bowl
Wednesday: Thomas Young
Thursday: Dream Theater
Friday: Turkish Government
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#1152833 - Sat Dec 03 2016 08:41 AM Re: Team heroes categories [Re: Dizart]
mehaul Offline
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Bell curve.... 1000 team members.... only 15 have knowledge of the subject.... The rest of the team have pre-chosen sets of answers arrangements to play.... chances are that high end tail of the bell curve will yield several good results.... Yes 993 of the thousand have lousy results but those 7 others could win the day. Don't concentrate on that large number that would fail, just be aware that a small number could tip the scales. And yes there are generally fewer than 100 players that show up for a single team but the 'tail of the bell' solution still applies.

This is probably a better argument to insert one Fill-In-The-Blank Q from an equivalent quiz of that type to stymie preset responses. Then open the Heroes compilation to those subjects that have identified F-I-t-B type quizzes. I'm sure some sports quizzes can be found,


And Kyle, what comes up on Saturday and Sunday? Finnish Wife Carrying Yardage and World Tiddly Winks Champions? smile


Edited by mehaul (Sat Dec 03 2016 09:00 AM)
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#1152834 - Sat Dec 03 2016 08:53 AM Re: Team heroes categories [Re: mehaul]
kyleisalive Offline
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Registered: Mon Mar 07 2005
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Loc: Toronto, Canada, eh!
Originally Posted By: mehaul
And Kyle, what comes up on Saturday and Sunday? Finnish Wife Carrying Yardage and World Tiddly Winks Champions? smile


'Other Sports' and 'Other Games & Toys' probably have more substantial question pools than the subcats I listed.
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