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#1171208 - Thu Jul 20 2017 06:26 PM Ridiculous Requirement for EPIC
Creedy Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Tue Aug 03 2010
Posts: 616
Loc: Coffs Harbour NSW Australia  
Is this a misprint?

I got an EPIC challenge yesterday. You won't believe it.

It wants me to get 12,600 points EACH in 18 different categories.

That's 226,800 points in one day.

And that is ridiculous.

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#1171211 - Thu Jul 20 2017 07:13 PM Re: Ridiculous Requirement for EPIC [Re: Creedy]
looney_tunes Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Tue Jan 20 2009
Posts: 4469
Loc: Briar Hill Victoria Australia 
That would be points in timed quiz mode - which allows 100 play points maximum per question, not the 15 points per question correct. It's epic, but not impossible.
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#1171219 - Thu Jul 20 2017 10:46 PM Re: Ridiculous Requirement for EPIC [Re: Creedy]
MrNobody97 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Dec 28 2014
Posts: 294
Loc: Illinois USA
I was similarly confused the first time I got the Epic being referred to. But if I recall, on a second look I think I saw the challenge text did say that it meant (at the time) "Quiz Mode" points. Thank goodness it's not referring to true FunTrivia points. ... Don't give Wes any ideas!

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#1171234 - Fri Jul 21 2017 12:38 AM Re: Ridiculous Requirement for EPIC [Re: Creedy]
samak Offline
Explorer

Registered: Thu Dec 10 2015
Posts: 53
IMO it is still a ridiculous requirement, even in timed quiz mode.

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#1171240 - Fri Jul 21 2017 01:00 AM Re: Ridiculous Requirement for EPIC [Re: Creedy]
sisterseagull Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Tue Aug 16 2011
Posts: 427
Loc: Torquay Devon England UK      
Has anyone actually achieved it already?

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#1171243 - Fri Jul 21 2017 01:05 AM Re: Ridiculous Requirement for EPIC [Re: Creedy]
rossian Offline
Moderator

Registered: Sat Jun 10 2006
Posts: 2521
Loc: Merseyside UK 
A small number of players have all the triple Epics, so it has been achieved. I've done it myself, but it was hard going. I think I had to stay up into the early hours to get there.

The triple flag requirements are pretty challenging for all colours. A couple I'd try again, but most I wouldn't.
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#1171247 - Fri Jul 21 2017 02:32 AM Re: Ridiculous Requirement for EPIC [Re: Creedy]
MrNobody97 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Dec 28 2014
Posts: 294
Loc: Illinois USA
I checked out of curiosity. This Epic has been won at triple level 48 times, to date.

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#1171281 - Fri Jul 21 2017 12:55 PM Re: Ridiculous Requirement for EPIC [Re: Creedy]
Dagny1 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Nov 14 2010
Posts: 277
Loc: Alabama USA
Yes, that's a killer one alright. On the day I earned Quizzer III, I barely made it timewise - and I mean barely! Fortunately I received it early in the day or I would not have made it.

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#1171502 - Sun Jul 23 2017 07:40 PM Re: Ridiculous Requirement for EPIC [Re: Creedy]
Creedy Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Tue Aug 03 2010
Posts: 616
Loc: Coffs Harbour NSW Australia  
Thank you for all the feedback. I appreciate it, but will never EVER attempt that particular EPIC though, should I get it again. In my opinion it's completely unrealistic.

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#1171566 - Yesterday at 04:49 PM Re: Ridiculous Requirement for EPIC [Re: Creedy]
WesleyCrusher Offline

Administrator

Registered: Thu Sep 04 2008
Posts: 4891
Loc: Germany
It's 20 quizzes at a 630 average (the latter should be realistic for a player at 3-flag level) per category. 360 quizzes overall. Certainly a lot, if you play at a rate of one per 2 mins, it's 12 hours. But then, it's a triple flag and those are meant for the most dedicated players.
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#1171579 - Yesterday at 08:06 PM Re: Ridiculous Requirement for EPIC [Re: Creedy]
Creedy Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Tue Aug 03 2010
Posts: 616
Loc: Coffs Harbour NSW Australia  
I take your point, and I sincerely congratulate the 48 people who have managed to get this badge so far - out of all the thousands of players who use the site - and over the years this badge has been on offer - but that ideal player in twelve hours of solid playing would:

1. Not have to stop to eat

2. Not have to stop to go to the toilet

3. Not have to feed the kids or change the baby

4. Completely ignore the husband, wife or partner, parents, children or grandparents

5. Not answer any phone calls and shout at all visitors to get lost

6. Not have to go to work if he or she works during the day, or show up at work looking like a zombie from lack of sleep

7. Not have any physical disabilities such as Parkinson's, cerebral palsy, physical limitations from a stroke, or vision issues etc, all of which impact on speed games or focusing intently on a screen for a long time. Reading difficulties such as dyslexia would also impact negatively on some players

8. Can type quickly and not have a slow computer

I think Fun Trivia is excellent. It's the most magnificent site on the internet - well, apart from the Encyclopaedia Britannica that is. It's one place where everyone can feel on equal footing - with their problems of life not impacting on their playing at all. It offers realistic goals and options. I hate trendy sayings, but Fun Trivia really does level the playing field. It allows players to leave the harsh realities of life behind them, and it gives the gift of self-esteem. In here players can say "I can" instead of "I can't".

Normally.

Life is not meant to be fair in spite of the opening paragraph of the Gettysburg Address, and it seems to me that this particular challenge is not fair to the VAST majority of FT players. They wouldn't have a hope of getting that badge. Fun Trivia players should at least have a REALISTIC chance of winning ALL badges.

There now, I've had my say and will let it go at this.

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#1171580 - Yesterday at 08:28 PM Re: Ridiculous Requirement for EPIC [Re: Creedy]
HairyBear Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Fri Sep 01 2006
Posts: 488
Loc: Florida USA
I agree that that particular badge is a tall order, but I think there are many other badges that are well outside of the range of possibility for a great many players. Hardcore Immortal pops to mind immediately as one that 99% of FT players don't have a prayer of ever seeing. And the one you mention is only a matter of time and dedication whereas Hardcore Immortal is based on brainpower. If you don't have it, no amount of time and dedication will get you there. By the same token, if you don't have the legs and the youth, you're never going to run 100 meters in ten seconds. Unfair? Yes. But part of the territory of life.

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#1171581 - Yesterday at 08:30 PM Re: Ridiculous Requirement for EPIC [Re: Creedy]
samak Offline
Explorer

Registered: Thu Dec 10 2015
Posts: 53
Very well said Creedy (apart from the idea that all Fun Trivia players should have a realistic chance of winning all badges).
I would also point out that just because 48 people have met the requirement does not automatically mean that the requirement is not ridiculous.


Edited by samak (Yesterday at 09:12 PM)

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#1171582 - Yesterday at 08:36 PM Re: Ridiculous Requirement for EPIC [Re: Creedy]
eyhung Online   content
Forum Adept

Registered: Fri Mar 02 2012
Posts: 117
Loc: California USA
It's my understanding that some of the epic requirements are tied to level. I remember the Green Triple had to be tweaked as it was getting impossible for players to complete them as levels have gotten higher and higher from new offerings such as the Ascension Quest, the Great Quiz Races, etc.

When I got the orange triple a few years ago, the requirements were 11200 in 18 of the 20 categories. I know this because I wrote it down in my notes. That's still quite an amount of work, but it's 320 instead of 360 quizzes (using Wes's estimates), slightly more than 11% less work.

Now, I disagree with Creedy's statement that all Fun Trivia players should have a realistic chance of winning all badges. Personally, I feel while many badges should be achievable by all, asking for all badges to cater to the least common denominator is going too far. For example, the Daily Game Champ: most people just don't have a shot at it, and that's part of what makes that badge special. However, I do feel that the requirement calculations for each epic should be reviewed. If level is part of the requirement, I feel it should be capped like the green flag was, or else some epics may end up playing significantly harder than originally intended.


Edited by eyhung (Yesterday at 08:37 PM)

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#1171586 - Yesterday at 09:49 PM Re: Ridiculous Requirement for EPIC [Re: eyhung]
CmdrK Offline
Prolific

Registered: Sun Jan 17 2010
Posts: 1918
Loc: Nevada USA
Actually, Creedy, FITB questions are rare in quiz mode so typing speed probably won't be an issue. So that's one less thing to worry about.

(ducking)
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#1171593 - Today at 04:06 AM Re: Ridiculous Requirement for EPIC [Re: Creedy]
Creedy Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Tue Aug 03 2010
Posts: 616
Loc: Coffs Harbour NSW Australia  
I wasn't going to make any further comments in this thread as I don't wish it to descend into a free-for-all, but this is too much:

Eyhung, just whom do you class as "the least common denominator". Which group do you consider is the least worthy of consideration?

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#1171594 - Today at 04:22 AM Re: Ridiculous Requirement for EPIC [Re: Creedy]
kyleisalive Online   FT-cool
Forum Champion

Registered: Mon Mar 07 2005
Posts: 6812
Loc: Toronto, Canada, eh!
Originally Posted By: Creedy
I wasn't going to make any further comments in this thread as I don't wish it to descend into a free-for-all, but this is too much:

Eyhung, just whom do you class as "the least common denominator". Which group do you consider is the least worthy of consideration?



Not that I have a real opinion about the badge in this paragraph, but I took the 'least common denominator' comment to mean that we didn't want to make every badgelet attainable for casual players, and it's something I agree with. Making one of the 'Amazing Race' badgelets accessible to someone who didn't participate during the event, for instance, would be silly.

Not everyone is going to be able to get each badgelet. I'm in the boat of not aiming for the one under discussion. As for whether or not I could achieve the requirements, I'm not sure. If not, then I don't see myself as a 'lowest common denominator' by any means. Do I think the badgelet should be scaled back to something more comfortable and manageable? Not really; that kind of takes the 'challenge' and 'epicness' away from it, doesn't it?


Edited by kyleisalive (Today at 04:23 AM)
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#1171595 - Today at 04:54 AM Re: Ridiculous Requirement for EPIC [Re: Creedy]
rossian Offline
Moderator

Registered: Sat Jun 10 2006
Posts: 2521
Loc: Merseyside UK 
The triple flag Epics don't give you anything extra, other than the satisfaction of having achieved that challenge and three flags on the badgelet instead of one or two.

I don't think eyhung meant to be disparaging at all. Some attainments are meant to be difficult - like the one I've been trying to get for three years without even getting close!
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#1171596 - Today at 05:05 AM Re: Ridiculous Requirement for EPIC [Re: Creedy]
MrNobody97 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Dec 28 2014
Posts: 294
Loc: Illinois USA
I think I understand both sides insofar as yes, some badges (or minis) are meant to be much, much harder than others. When you know there's one out there that others have won, and you have at least the potential to also win it, it can feel a little bit like the proverbial carrot is being dangled.

I would say this, keep in mind the Daily Challenge FAQ says this in one section:
You will encounter four difficulty levels of challenges: Easy, Medium, Difficult, and Epic. Their relative difficulty levels are as they sound. [...] It's important to note that difficult challenges are just that... difficult.

And later on in the FAQs, it says:
If you receive an epic of a flag color that you have completed before, you will be playing for a double flag. The point with these is that they are completely optional and meant only for players who want a challenge more difficult than what we'd consider fair to most FunTrivia players. The requirements for them are set extremely high and we don't want any players to feel they have to get them.

And that doesn't even mention the existence of the TRIPLE-flag variation. But it's pretty much saying, challenges are easy, so-so, hard, "Epic" (basically, very hard), and also double-flag Epics (extremely hard -- hence the text "a challenge more difficult than what we'd consider fair to most FunTrivia players").

So if an Epic is basically "very hard," and a double is "next step up," then the triple is -- logically -- going to be "the maximum difficulty limit (that would be realistic)." If you're even TRYING for a triple, you're already in the rare bunch of players who've gone far beyond what the vast majority of people could accomplish (in that area of challenge).

As eyhung noted, the Green Triple (which currently has ten winners) was scaled back, or at least had its difficulty capped, at Level 150, because beyond that point it was starting to give target scores that were going from "exceptionally hard" to "theoretically possible." And that wasn't the intention. The goal was to make them still realistically possible to attain.

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#1171598 - Today at 05:37 AM Re: Ridiculous Requirement for EPIC [Re: Creedy]
WesleyCrusher Offline

Administrator

Registered: Thu Sep 04 2008
Posts: 4891
Loc: Germany
Keep in mind that on FunTrivia, we are aiming to give all players a selection of things to shoot for. We have badges that will be easy going even for a slow player with limited knowledge and physical issues on top of that. We also have other badges meant to challenge the most dedicated and talented of players.

Triple Epics are clearly in that latter camp. They are (along with their double cousins) not even full challenges. Completing one will not increase your badgelet/challenge count as you will lose the corresponding lesser level of flag. The doubles and triples are upgrades much like the Divine Rank in Ascension Quest - an extra level of distinction on an already difficult award. We specifically make these highest grades into upgrades instead of additional badges to show this "beyond the normal scale" nature.

Look at duel for another example: The highest actual badge is set at rank 31, the lowest of the dinosaurs. Yet there are nine more steps after that and you are looking at a huge number of additional wins. Not even a perfect player (15 wins every day) will be able to get that last step in this decade. But it's there and we're looking forward to the day someone truly exceptional will achieve it!


Edited by WesleyCrusher (Today at 05:38 AM)
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#1171601 - Today at 06:00 AM Re: Ridiculous Requirement for EPIC [Re: Creedy]
Creedy Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Tue Aug 03 2010
Posts: 616
Loc: Coffs Harbour NSW Australia  
Fair enough then. Thanks for all clarifications (plural). I really will leave it this time.

But please tell me you're kidding with the Duel. I'll be dead before I reach nine more levels in that.

The good thing about it though is that it doesn't disappear completely after 24 hours, ie it can always be played, whatever amount of games you get each time, or whether you played the day before or not. Each day is a fresh set of challenges.

I'll be sure to have my headstone inscribed "She died in a duel".

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#1171616 - Today at 09:32 AM Re: Ridiculous Requirement for EPIC [Re: Creedy]
eyhung Online   content
Forum Adept

Registered: Fri Mar 02 2012
Posts: 117
Loc: California USA
It looks like my phrasing the "lowest common denominator" has caused offense, much of which I did not intend.

I come from a scientific background and was aware of the mathematical basis behind the phrase, but not any pejorative ones, so I used it in an attempt to describe my position. After getting both public and private messages complaining about my choice of phrase, I googled it and discovered that some people believe it to have elitist overtones.

I apologize for injecting such language into the discussion and will be more careful in the future. I would also like to thank the admins of the site for explaining my position in a less offensive fashion.

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