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#151054 - Wed Jan 08 2003 05:40 PM Grrrrr...all in the name of safety
Linda1 Offline
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Registered: Thu Sep 30 1999
Posts: 11250
Loc: Munchkinland
I just found out that we now are going to have to have Security Documents to get past the security in the airport. In other words, those of us who could normally show our Drivers License and Ticketless Itinerary now must print out an additional document to show to get through.

Ordinarily, this would not be a problem except that you can only access the document beginning at 6AM the day before your scheduled travel. And, it only covers that leg of the trip.

As an example of why this is so idiotic, let's say that I'm going on vacation. Say I'm scheduled to leave on Friday. Then, let's say that I'm supposed to return on next Wednesday. Ok, so I'm home now and can log onto the computer to get this stupid document starting tomorrow morning at 6AM. All is fine, and I can get past security checkpoints with this piece of paper in my hand. HOWEVER, it's only good for the Friday trip. The return trip isn't covered. So, I would have to hunt around on my vacation for a computer (with a printer - not all places have both for you to access) to get ANOTHER Security Document to allow me to enter the airport on Wednesday to get home. ARRRGGGGHHHH. That's just so stupid. And, it defeats the purpose of the upgraded kiosks that we can now use to get our Boarding Passes early.

The argument that I got when I called one of the airlines to ask if I was really understanding the process correctly was that he was surprised that no one has complained about it yet. That's no surprise - the thing only went into effect yesterday. I'd bet that most people aren't even aware of the new policies. He then went on to say that he would expect businessmen to be complaining, but none of them have. Again, no surprise. Most businessmen flying have their computers with them these days.

I understand that we need to make some changes for security. Don't get me wrong. But, there have got to be better ways of doing it. And, we need to keep in mind how many flights are going in and out of our airports DAILY that are NOT flown into buildings.

The guy at the airline that I spoke to admitted that he felt that this was all "smoke and mirrors" and that this newest change, like several others, are going to waste people's time unnecessarily. That there are better ways of making us feel secure after 9/11.

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#151055 - Wed Jan 08 2003 05:48 PM Re: Grrrrr...all in the name of safety
ozzz2002 Online   FT-cool
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Registered: Mon Dec 03 2001
Posts: 19937
Loc: Sydney NSW Australia
I can see a thriving niche market here.. Internet cafes at or near airports.

Seriously, though, that sounds like a silly idea, and I cannot see what these 'precautions' are supposed to achieve; can you enlighten us, please, Linda?
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#151056 - Wed Jan 08 2003 05:55 PM Re: Grrrrr...all in the name of safety
Linda1 Offline
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Registered: Thu Sep 30 1999
Posts: 11250
Loc: Munchkinland
Ozzz, according to them, it supposedly only lets the person who's supposed to get through get through.

However, that was already being accomplished with the old system. If they check our Ticketless Travel Itinerary (with our names, flight info, and other pertinent info) AND our driver's license (which is already a PICTURE ID), they know who's getting through.

All they're succeeding in doing is creating another hoop for us to have to jump through and saying, "Look at us! We made a change to the system! We must be doing something good, because we changed something! " However, change for the sake of saying, "we changed" does not make it a good change or one that's going to work. If you have a piece of the system that's working, you keep it and make changes to the pieces that are NOT working. It infuriates me that they think that "change" means that I'm safer. I'm not going to feel any safer knowing that everyone has this piece of paper in their hands before going through security. All that means is that everyone going through security has found a computer to access. Does that equal "increased safety" in anyone but the Federal Government's mind?!

And, what happens to the people who are not fortunate enough to have a computer at their disposal? Do people who can't afford a computer never get to fly now?

There's some logic missing here somewhere.

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#151057 - Wed Jan 08 2003 06:04 PM Re: Grrrrr...all in the name of safety
Copago Offline
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Registered: Tue May 15 2001
Posts: 14384
Loc: Australia
What a pain in the neck, Linda. That would drive me batty.

I went to post an overseas parcel the other day and found out that there are new secuity features for that. I had to show my driver's license and sign an extra form, taking twice as long as usual. Hopefully that will speed up when the clerks get the hang of the new system. I just have to wonder if someone has the 'brains' to post something potentially lethal that they wouldn't have the brains to get a fake I.D.

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#151058 - Wed Jan 08 2003 10:02 PM Re: Grrrrr...all in the name of safety
MsBatt Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Sun Dec 16 2001
Posts: 883
Loc: Alabama USA
Thank goodness I rarely fly. I wonder if anyone's considered that something as frustrating as this might just turn some good ol' boy INTO a domestic terrorist. I can picture a few people I know going postal at the boarding gates when their paperwork doesn't pass muster.
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#151059 - Thu Jan 09 2003 05:37 AM Re: Grrrrr...all in the name of safety
sue943 Offline
Administrator

Registered: Sun Dec 19 1999
Posts: 37344
Loc: Jersey
Channel Islands    
It has become the practice in the UK and the rest of the British Isles to ask for photographic ID, preferably a passport, even for domestic flights. They started this late last year, it is a nuisance if you don't have a passport. We are not too badly off here in Jersey as our driving licences have a photo and our address so are acceptable.

I suppose that any terrorist worth his salt could acquire a fake passport or other photographic ID so perhaps what you are talking about Linda is the way forward.
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#151060 - Sat Jan 11 2003 06:49 AM Re: Grrrrr...all in the name of safety
Biggles Offline
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Registered: Thu Jan 09 2003
Posts: 170
Loc: England
It looks like I will not be flying to Jersey for my holidays. I don't have any form of photographic ID as I have the older style driving licence with no photograph on and no passport. As the licence is valid until I'm 70 it could be a long wait to visit your island.

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#151061 - Sat Jan 11 2003 08:10 AM Re: Grrrrr...all in the name of safety
sue943 Offline
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Registered: Sun Dec 19 1999
Posts: 37344
Loc: Jersey
Channel Islands    
You are not going to be able to fly anywhere in the UK either, not just to Jersey, I think all the airlines are asking for ID.
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#151062 - Sat Jan 11 2003 08:16 AM Re: Grrrrr...all in the name of safety
Biggles Offline
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Registered: Thu Jan 09 2003
Posts: 170
Loc: England
I will have to come on the ferry, though I am still worried about the level of crime on Jersey after watching Bergerac on television.

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#151063 - Sat Jan 11 2003 08:41 AM Re: Grrrrr...all in the name of safety
Exit10 Offline


Registered: Fri Sep 28 2001
Posts: 4253
Loc: Brisbane Queensland Australia
If you can make your way to Alice Springs there is every chance you will be able to get back on the plane if you muck around in your handbag/briefcase and look distressed.

If you don't have a drivers license then they will generally take pity on you and let you through. Luckily I have a passport if necessary.

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#151064 - Sat Jan 11 2003 09:02 AM Re: Grrrrr...all in the name of safety
sue943 Offline
Administrator

Registered: Sun Dec 19 1999
Posts: 37344
Loc: Jersey
Channel Islands    
Biggles my friend (oh I used to love those Biggles books when I was younger!) don't believe all you see on the telly, we used to love watching them enter the tunnel (which is on the edge of the town) and come out on the other side of the island - amazing! They also used to drive down a road, turn a corner and instantly be eight miles away and what made it more magical was that they could look out of a window and see something from miles away. It was still fun though, we used to sit there 'extra spotting', seeing who we knew in the background. Many of those policemen you saw in each episode were actually real policemen and those were real police cars, it was called co-operation.
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#151065 - Sat Jan 11 2003 09:04 AM Re: Grrrrr...all in the name of safety
Jar Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Wed Apr 11 2001
Posts: 4224
Loc: Texas USA
And how about this to add to the stupidity Linda.

I took a parcel to UPS at the airport the other day. Nicely packaged and ready to deliver. They now require that ALL packages be opened for inspection. So, it is best just not to seal the package at all. However, if one takes a package to any other UPS pick up point, or those "pack and ship" places, it is not necessary. To top it off, the package was going via ground!

I asked why I could take it anywhere else and have it already closed up, and was told that it was because it was "on the airport." Now how much sense does that make? All those packages from other areas are going through the same airport!
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#151066 - Sat Jan 11 2003 09:27 AM Re: Grrrrr...all in the name of safety *DELETED*
Russ5 Offline
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Registered: Mon Dec 02 2002
Posts: 480
Loc: Oban
Post deleted by Russ5
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#151067 - Sat Jan 11 2003 09:53 AM Re: Grrrrr...all in the name of safety
sue943 Offline
Administrator

Registered: Sun Dec 19 1999
Posts: 37344
Loc: Jersey
Channel Islands    
It might have changed now but getting out of what was the USSR used to be after vigorous checking procedures by the KGB. People were only allowed to leave the airport departure gate two at the time, checked obviously at passport control, then again at the door, then at the foot of the aircraft steps, each time the photo was examined and checked against the face.

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#151068 - Sat Jan 11 2003 11:18 AM Re: Grrrrr...all in the name of safety
jubjub Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Sat Jun 15 2002
Posts: 602
Loc: Southern Ontario, Canada
Just down the road from me at Pearson International Airport, they found a dead Dominican in the wheel well of a Skycharter jet. His frozen body could have been there for up to 8 days, as apparently that is how often they check the wheel wells of the jet. So for all the checking they are doing and say they are doing at airports, how safe are we really if some guy (it could have been a bomb it seems so easy to get in the wheel well undetected) can just climb in there and no one sees him. Even if he bribed someone in the Dominican Republic to let him hide in the wheel well, could it just not as easily have been a terrorist who could bribe someone in the airport in the Dominican Republic (or other relatively small airport on foreign soil) to let him leave a little something in the wheel well, too?

If I really had the cause to fly somewhere, I would, but I'd still be justifiably worried about my safety, I think.
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#151069 - Sat Jan 11 2003 01:08 PM Re: Grrrrr...all in the name of safety
Russ5 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Mon Dec 02 2002
Posts: 480
Loc: Oban
In reply to Biggles (great name), re driving licience, I'm sure it doesn't cost anything to send it away for renewal.

You have to do it every time that you move address, or get married.

What I've done before, when my licence went through the wash, I wrote to the DVLA, and they sent me a new one almost immediately.

Just apply for a new licence, get an application form from the PO, fill it in, send it away with a photo, and hey presto, you've got your licence to go to Jersey.

Something doesn't smell good me thinks, this is too easy.

I'm going off to ponder....
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#151070 - Sat Jan 11 2003 02:02 PM Re: Grrrrr...all in the name of safety
MollyGrue Offline
Prolific

Registered: Wed Mar 21 2001
Posts: 1765
Loc: Michigan USA
I just wonder now how my trip to LA would have gone if it been after 9/11. In all my excitement of winning the trip I gave my name as Betsy, which is my nickname, I was amazed that they let me through after checking my drivers licence with a different name on it than the ticket.

I actuall was detained in Ney York about six years ago, I was coming home from my father's house when the guards stopped me at the x-ray machine and said I had to open my bag. It turned out what they thought was a bomb was my necklaces and a pen shaped like a music note that were tangled together. I was so scared I almost peed my pants, I thought maybe someone had put something in there without my knowledge, even though I never let go of the bag.

My poor grandmother who traveled all over the world after she retired was arrested for terrorism. I don't remember what country it was but the reason she was arrested was because she had five machettes in her luggage, one for each of her sons and one for her boyfriend. I will admit that it was a poor choice of souveneer.


Edited by MollyGrue24 (Sat Jan 11 2003 02:04 PM)
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#151071 - Wed Jan 15 2003 01:13 PM Re: Grrrrr...all in the name of safety
Linda1 Offline
Star Poster

Registered: Thu Sep 30 1999
Posts: 11250
Loc: Munchkinland
Quote:

I actuall was detained in Ney York about six years ago, I was coming home from my father's house when the guards stopped me at the x-ray machine and said I had to open my bag. It turned out what they thought was a bomb was my necklaces and a pen shaped like a music note that were tangled together. I was so scared I almost peed my pants, I thought maybe someone had put something in there without my knowledge, even though I never let go of the bag.




I'm checked all the time. It's always something completely innocent, but I've had my bags opened many times for them to peer into. Have even had to remove everything from them.

And, back when they were really checking people's shoes, I had to remove mine more than once. Sat around for the longest time barefoot as they scanned and rescanned them.

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#151072 - Sun Jan 19 2003 09:54 PM Re: Grrrrr...all in the name of safety
CellarDoor Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Sat Feb 12 2000
Posts: 4894
Loc: Seattle
Washington USA
You frightened me, Linda, but I checked the USAirways site and the new policy didn't seem that different from the old one. It seems they'll let you on with a boarding pass, same as before. Is there some reason why you can't just check in at the self-serve kiosk or at the desk at the airport and get your boarding pass there? It doesn't seem, from their summary, as though you'd need a printer ... but I don't know the layout of the airport(s) you frequent.
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#151073 - Sun Jan 19 2003 10:09 PM Re: Grrrrr...all in the name of safety
ladymacb29 Offline
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Registered: Wed Mar 15 2000
Posts: 15901
Loc: The Delta Quadrant
When I was getting a ticket for my brother that's what the airline website (Southwest) said ticketless passengers would need if they didn't want to check in.

Also, Linda - complain to the TAA (I think that's the right acronym) - according to what people in the DC area have been saying they actually read the complaints and they've actually changed some things based upon what people have complained about.
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#151074 - Tue Jan 21 2003 02:53 AM Re: Grrrrr...all in the name of safety
wajo Offline
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Registered: Mon Nov 11 2002
Posts: 271
Loc: Tasmania Australia          
Mollygrue24 - is that story about your Grandmother for real? I hope so - I'm not really into machetes...but it's a bit more imaginative than the little souvenir shell animals my Grandma used to buy me!

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#151075 - Tue Jan 21 2003 06:02 AM Re: Grrrrr...all in the name of safety
Bertho Offline
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Registered: Fri Oct 04 2002
Posts: 974
Loc: Queensland Australia
I found myself in a small regoinal airport last year without a belt or shoes, the contents of my laptop case which was jammed full of stuff, strewn across the floor in a vain search to find what was making the buzzer go off. (it was a keyring that fell behind a bag lining) Meanwhile the plane is waiting for the last passenger to board.... me. When I say plane, I mean it was one of those little prop things that hold 6 people. The flight was only 200km.

I was not happy, nor was the pilot and the 5 passengers waiting for me to pass through security in this tinpot airport. I understand why we need stronger secutrity but...... common sense! Where the hell is it?

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