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#662239 - Wed Oct 19 2011 12:54 PM Re: If you get a rejection notice on a quiz [Re: guitargoddess]
Snowman Offline
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Registered: Wed Oct 31 2007
Posts: 1580
Loc: London England UK            
Originally Posted By: guitargoddess
Originally Posted By: skunkee

I explained to you that Movies was the only category that did not allow questions requiring numerical answers, told you the reasoning behind it and pointed out that this was spelled out in the Movies Guidelines.



Animals and Sci/Tech do not typically take numerical answers either.


People prefers not to have them too (although we don't disallow them completely).
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#662248 - Wed Oct 19 2011 01:49 PM Re: If you get a rejection notice on a quiz [Re: jmorrow]
shuehorn Offline
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Registered: Tue Jul 04 2006
Posts: 2998
Loc: Lawrenceville Georgia USA     
Originally Posted By: jmorrow
I applaud your enthusiasm, and I am sorry if you feel that this is stifling to your quiz writing efforts, but I feel that you need to demonstrate to the editors that you are able to work within our guidelines before you attempt to bend (not break) those same guidelines. I hope this makes sense.


All of the comments by editors are much appreciated, because anyone who wants to write better and better quizzes can gain insight from your points of view. I've quoted this bit from morrow's answer becuase it epitomizes for me the generosity of spirit of the editors, who try very hard to give us feedback and make our quizzes a better product, all on a volunteer basis and for the improvement of the site. This is why I love FT so much. Thanks to all of the editors for all you do.

Sue
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#662264 - Wed Oct 19 2011 02:48 PM Re: If you get a rejection notice on a quiz [Re: shuehorn]
reeshy Offline
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Couldn't have put it better, Sue!
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#662463 - Thu Oct 20 2011 08:27 AM Re: If you get a rejection notice on a quiz [Re: reeshy]
shuehorn Offline
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Originally Posted By: reeshy
Couldn't have put it better, Sue!
I'll bet you could have spelled "because" correctly. smile

I'd correct it myself, but the edit button seems to be gone for my post. smile
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#662668 - Fri Oct 21 2011 10:32 AM Re: If you get a rejection notice on a quiz [Re: shuehorn]
satguru Offline
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Just for the benefit of some of the apparently new quizwriters further up the thread, I write quizzes I hope other people will like. That means whatever I start with is only a framework, and then adapt it to what will end up making the quiz as good as possible. It seems some start more with a pretty fixed list of questions they like and then do all they can to get them accepted whatever the actual playing experience will be like.

Remember however interested you are in any area your quizzes are being played 100% by other people, so if the editors have learned over time and correction notices what people don't like, however valid and relevant they are, then go with it. It means better ratings and less trouble having quizzes accepted in the future, and overall a better quiz site for everyone playing.
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#662745 - Fri Oct 21 2011 06:06 PM Re: If you get a rejection notice on a quiz [Re: satguru]
bubblesfun Offline
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Wow. What a discussion. I would just like to give an opinion as a quiz taker, not a big quiz writer. I think the Movie section should really rethink the numeric and date policy. Part of the beauty of the movie industry is how things have changed over the years, and there are some key dates that are important in the evolution. Knowing where things fit into the great timeline is a great part of the industry. As a quiz taker, I would far prefer to have some date questions, rather than having to know what color shirt Harry Potter was wearing or who he was standing next to in Potions class, the type of questions that appear all the time. This may just be my opinion, but I think a lot of interesting info is left off because of the restrictions. What may be nitpicky to some is fascinating information to others -- and vice versa.


Edited by bubblesfun (Fri Oct 21 2011 06:07 PM)
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#662748 - Fri Oct 21 2011 06:20 PM Re: If you get a rejection notice on a quiz [Re: bubblesfun]
ssabreman Offline
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Alex, are you kidding? He was wearing a red shirt, standing beside Draco...No, it was a green shirt when he stood beside Ron...Wait a minute, it was...nevermind.

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#662776 - Fri Oct 21 2011 07:49 PM Re: If you get a rejection notice on a quiz [Re: ssabreman]
satguru Offline
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Loc: Kingsbury London UK           
I'd never chosen to play movie quizzes, but when I did in hard core I found the one thing I remembered were storylines. If it was either familiar, or I could work it out somehow from the title alone at least I stood a chance of getting them right. Numbers, including dates, legs, children or whatever are fairly arbitrary items, and unless you have a good numerical memory then whether Pearl Harbour was on December the 21st, 25th or 27th is neither memorable and I'd suggest interesting. Yes, it's factual and important, but remembering what happened in something must have more merit than counting the statistics.

I would say if there was a demand (by quiz play stats) then maybe there could be specific numeric quizzes as they do have a place in training memories at least, but especially on timed quizzes when I'm asked how many children were in Family Ties or Full House (which we don't even get here) yet again I don't really want to save such information to my memory just to get slightly better scores.


Edited by satguru (Fri Oct 21 2011 07:52 PM)
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#662796 - Fri Oct 21 2011 09:17 PM Re: If you get a rejection notice on a quiz [Re: satguru]
bubblesfun Offline
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Not sure what Pearl Harbor, Full House and Family Ties have to do with a movie discussion. Ah well, my point stands. I do care about the movies of 1939, a huge year, or when talkies came into being, or when was the last time Disney won an Oscar. Or the first year a woman won Best Director. As a movie buff, these dates count. And it is a part of the industry. Again, just as relevant as the designer underwear MJF was wearing in Back to the Future.
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#662805 - Fri Oct 21 2011 09:38 PM Re: If you get a rejection notice on a quiz [Re: satguru]
jmorrow Offline
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Registered: Wed Oct 08 2008
Posts: 948
Loc: Singapore
Quote:
I don't really want to save such information to my memory just to get slightly better scores.

I think that about sums up the general feeling of quiz players towards numerical answers, but bubblesfun does bring up a good point.

As I've indicated before, the rule is not absolute, so if you feel that an exception should be made on a question you have written, then the proper thing to do would be to engage with your editor and give your reasons. Also, subcategories like the Oscars are a little different, since people who play such quizzes would expect to be quizzed on statistics and the like. Just bear in mind that the Movies category has a specific restriction on questions about release dates of films, as they differ around the world, and FT is an international site.

Even if a piece of numerical information is particularly fascinating or significant, such that a good question can and should be made from it, it is often possible to write your question in such a way that doesn't require a numerical answer. This is part of the challenge (and fun) of quiz writing here on Fun Trivia. Get creative, and find a way to work within the authoring guidelines. You'll probably write a truly original question in the process, since most other authors would only think to ask the question in a more straightforward manner.

BTW, although the Movies category doesn't have a specific restriction about questions on colors, we do discourage such questions, since they often suffer from the same problems as numerical questions, and it is usually hard for an author to come up with interesting information sections for questions about colors. Of course, exceptions are possible, but more often than not, this is what gets submitted.

Quote:
Question: What color is Harry Potter's shirt in Potions class?
Answer: Green
Interesting Information: It is green. You can see it clearly in the scene.

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#662827 - Fri Oct 21 2011 10:29 PM Re: If you get a rejection notice on a quiz [Re: jmorrow]
kyleisalive Offline
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Registered: Mon Mar 07 2005
Posts: 5654
Loc: Toronto, Canada, eh!
Video Games has a very similar issue, not so much with numerical questions, but with dates. With Video Games, release dates can vary all around the world and as time goes by, they become less and less relevant.

Sure, a game came out in a specific region in a specific year, but how many people can name off this sequel and when it was released in that in that region of the world? Does it really matter that much, especially with rereleases, porting, and online accessibility? As such we try to disallow these questions unless there's a good reason not to.

I can imagine that a number of issues can arise with dates in other categories; it happens in Television with airdates and it's not hard to believe the same thing happens in movies with international releases, limited vs. theatrical releases, etc. There are many more interesting questions out there that can be asked-- without getting into subjective tastes on what's 'interesting'-- but we're usually willing to bend the rules a little under different circumstances.
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#662830 - Fri Oct 21 2011 10:44 PM Re: If you get a rejection notice on a quiz [Re: bubblesfun]
shuehorn Offline
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Registered: Tue Jul 04 2006
Posts: 2998
Loc: Lawrenceville Georgia USA     
Originally Posted By: bubblesfun
Not sure what Pearl Harbor, Full House and Family Ties have to do with a movie discussion. Ah well, my point stands. I do care about the movies of 1939, a huge year, or when talkies came into being, or when was the last time Disney won an Oscar. Or the first year a woman won Best Director. As a movie buff, these dates count. And it is a part of the industry. Again, just as relevant as the designer underwear MJF was wearing in Back to the Future.


I think that a quiz about the movies of 1939 would be very interesting, and it wouldn't violate the rules of the category at all, unless the quiz were about putting the historic movies of 1939 in chronological order, or something like that. Dates that are milestones should be and are allowed. Minutia about duration of scenes or how many times someone said a certain thing are less interesting, and I think that is what the suggested restrictions are getting at.
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#662834 - Fri Oct 21 2011 10:58 PM Re: If you get a rejection notice on a quiz [Re: shuehorn]
spanishliz Online   FT-cool
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Registered: Thu Dec 13 2001
Posts: 18647
Loc: Ontario Canada
Quote:
Minutia about duration of scenes or how many times someone said a certain thing are less interesting, and I think that is what the suggested restrictions are getting at.


Exactly right. That, and what was the license plate number of the car that we saw for two seconds, or how many shots were fired, or how old was Johnny Depp when he made the movie, etc. etc. As jmorrow has pointed out, release date questions are not allowed because of the variable nature of the dates. However, a quiz about the movies of 1939 would be very welcome, and would fit nicely into the Movies by Year subcategory. (In this case the date is given, not asked for, so the problem is avoided.)

Spanishliz (editor in Movies, Geography, Crosswords)

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#662836 - Fri Oct 21 2011 11:27 PM Re: If you get a rejection notice on a quiz [Re: spanishliz]
mehaul Offline
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Registered: Wed Feb 03 2010
Posts: 5187
Loc: Florida USA
A date of the original (not successive) release of a movie is often necessary to distinguish it from an earlier versions or later remakes. Heck, the sparse generation of new ideas out of casting town means most of them will be remade and all movie questions might then need dating to tell them apart. But the question really shouldn't be about the date of release, that's logistics or historical data. Plot, character and their development, suspense techniques, settings should carry the day. Quick without looking: "What's the runtime on 'The Wizard of OZ'?" (103 minutes), not very important. But in that movie the color of Dorothy's slippers is a good question as they were central to the plot whereas Potter's shirt color wasn't.
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#662854 - Sat Oct 22 2011 06:57 AM Re: If you get a rejection notice on a quiz [Re: mehaul]
agony Offline

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Posts: 11619
Loc: Western Canada
Music allows a lot of numerical questions, because for some reason a lot of people are interested in and like chart statistics. Personally, I wouldn't believe it if I didn't see it, but chart quizzes get good play, and good ratings. Given this, the next issue to arise is *how* the question is asked.

"What position did "This Song" reach in the charts?" is a question that you'll never see in a Music quiz - there are so many charts, internationally, that the question is meaningless without more detail. Same with release date questions, or "What was the first single from this album?". This kind of question needs to be worded properly, so that players have the information they need in order to answer.

To bring us back to the original question in this discussion - you may, at first glance, think that guidelines are being applied arbitrarily. "How come I can't ask a numerical question, but this guy could?" can be answered by actually looking at the circumstances. You maybe asked "How high did the song get in the charts?" while he asked "How high did the song get on the US Billboard Hot 100 in 1987?". Not really the same thing at all.

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#662868 - Sat Oct 22 2011 09:20 AM Re: If you get a rejection notice on a quiz [Re: agony]
bubblesfun Offline
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Posts: 650
Loc: New York USA
Great points all around. Thanks for the further explanations and examples. It makes much more sense now. Although it would be nice to see some of the other nit-picky questions culled, not just the number ones.
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#662883 - Sat Oct 22 2011 11:11 AM Re: If you get a rejection notice on a quiz [Re: jmorrow]
LadyCaitriona Offline
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Registered: Thu Feb 08 2001
Posts: 5435
Loc: Ottawa Ontario Canada         
Originally Posted By: jmorrow

Quote:
Question: What color is Harry Potter's shirt in Potions class?
Answer: Green
Interesting Information: It is green. You can see it clearly in the scene.


Harry would never have worn green to Potions, or any other class. He wears his school uniform to all of his classes, including a white shirt and grey sweater with red trim and a red-and-gold tie. Only the Slytherins' uniforms are accented with green.

(End tangent)
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#662888 - Sat Oct 22 2011 11:39 AM Re: If you get a rejection notice on a quiz [Re: LadyCaitriona]
reeshy Offline
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Originally Posted By: LadyCaitriona
Originally Posted By: jmorrow

Quote:
Question: What color is Harry Potter's shirt in Potions class?
Answer: Green
Interesting Information: It is green. You can see it clearly in the scene.


Harry would never have worn green to Potions, or any other class. He wears his school uniform to all of his classes, including a white shirt and grey sweater with red trim and a red-and-gold tie. Only the Slytherins' uniforms are accented with green.

(End tangent)


Haha, I love you for this comment :P
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#662907 - Sat Oct 22 2011 02:02 PM Re: If you get a rejection notice on a quiz [Re: reeshy]
satguru Offline
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Loc: Kingsbury London UK           
I only referred to the TV programmes and historical dates to make the exact point that it doesn't matter what category you're playing in, a number's a number. They're no easier to memorise in movies than any other category except maths which usually guarantee a mark off each time I get one as I can't do that either, but at least is the one place number answers rule.
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#662947 - Sat Oct 22 2011 05:49 PM Re: If you get a rejection notice on a quiz [Re: satguru]
jmorrow Offline
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Registered: Wed Oct 08 2008
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Loc: Singapore
Quote:
Harry would never have worn green to Potions, or any other class. He wears his school uniform to all of his classes, including a white shirt and grey sweater with red trim and a red-and-gold tie. Only the Slytherins' uniforms are accented with green.

LOL, LadyC! smile

And if this was sent as a correction note to that question, the only way to deal with it if the author was long gone and none of the Movies editors were familiar with the film would be for one of the editors to watch the film to see who was right.

Multiply that by the other CNs we receive on a daily basis about the hair color of a particular character (is brown the same thing as dark blond?), or the number of times Jason kills someone with a machete in the film, and you can begin to see the problem, purely form the perspective of corrections. The Movies editors would much rather spend our time editing quizzes and placing them online than watching (sometimes renting) movies just to check some obscure detail, so this is one reason we discourage such questions in the first place.

Of course, the other reason is that players don't seem to like them.

Quote:
[I]t would be nice to see some of the other nit-picky questions culled, not just the number ones.

We are doing what we can on new quizzes and questions. As for the older quizzes on the site, most of these were written when our guidelines were very different so they have been grandfathered into the system, i.e. we generally don't require them to be rewritten to conform with current guidelines. We will still make corrections for typos and grammar, or if the answer is wrong, but we try not to change a question that has since been disallowed, as it wouldn't be fair to the original author.

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#663248 - Tue Oct 25 2011 07:25 AM Re: If you get a rejection notice on a quiz [Re: jmorrow]
skunkee Offline
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Registered: Thu Oct 16 2003
Posts: 8913
Loc: Burlington Ontario Canada  
Having been away for a few days I am coming back late to this discussion.
I agree that knowing the timing of a movie can be both interesting and important. There is nothing to stop you from including the date of the movie, in either the question or the Interesting Information, or any other numerical information you want to share, for that matter. We simply ask that you don't phrase a question around it.

I have to agree that I don't enjoy quizzes about the colour of things, unless there is a theme building around a colour!
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#663306 - Tue Oct 25 2011 04:02 PM Re: If you get a rejection notice on a quiz [Re: skunkee]
LadyCaitriona Offline
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Registered: Thu Feb 08 2001
Posts: 5435
Loc: Ottawa Ontario Canada         
Originally Posted By: skunkee
I have to agree that I don't enjoy quizzes about the colour of things, unless there is a theme building around a colour!


Would it be absolutely cruel of me to submit the title "People Who Wore Green Shirts" as an Author Challenge?
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#663314 - Tue Oct 25 2011 04:20 PM Re: If you get a rejection notice on a quiz [Re: LadyCaitriona]
spanishliz Online   FT-cool
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Registered: Thu Dec 13 2001
Posts: 18647
Loc: Ontario Canada
Quote:
Would it be absolutely cruel of me to submit the title "People Who Wore Green Shirts" as an Author Challenge?


Perhaps a little, but a skilled author might be able to make a good quiz from the title without ever asking who wore the green shirts.

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#663337 - Tue Oct 25 2011 06:09 PM Re: If you get a rejection notice on a quiz [Re: spanishliz]
ssabreman Offline
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And we will find that Harry Potter did in fact wear a green shirt to Potions class on one particular dress-down Friday.

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#663612 - Wed Oct 26 2011 10:54 PM Re: If you get a rejection notice on a quiz [Re: jmorrow]
dersinghampaul Offline
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Registered: Tue Oct 18 2011
Posts: 4
Loc: Abu Dhabi
Thanks for this - I can't seem to get the forums right, I am posting replies, but they seem to come out as standalones for some reason, need to really sit down and work out how to communicate on these forums.

One quick question though, having been away for a few days from the site - my 'Get Carter' quiz seems to have disappeared off the site. It's now gone from the 'New' section, but it's not in Movies under 'G' next to 'Get Shorty'; any ideas what's happened to it?

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