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#823035 - Thu Sep 13 2012 08:14 AM Re: "Americacentricity" of quizzes [Re: english_gent]
dippo Offline
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Registered: Sat Jun 14 2008
Posts: 702
Loc: London
England UK         
Originally Posted By: english_gent


For example, if we have two teams competing in a quiz over three rounds (say USA Vs Europe). It would be deemed fair to have round 1 on American subjects, Round 2 on European, and round 3 on various subjects.

Not to have all three rounds on American subjects, which is 'similar' to what I (and I alone) notice about the daily/hourly games. Yes there are non-American questions appearing (obscure or otherwise) but the FREQUENCY of american questions that occurs is alarmingly slanted.

It is an exagerated point I make here but one which somewhat makes my point clearer to a degree.


But we don't have teams competing in that way. In nearly all games on this site, you compete against other players and teams regardless of their country, and there is little one on one competition other than in the knock out.

If you want to increase the amount of questions on UK and European subjects, then that would discriminate against the Americans, who are in the majority on this site.

My only concern about the American bias of the site is the occasional assumption that other countries don't exist - a quiz about Civil War should not necessarily be exclusively about the American Civil War; I believe quite a few countries have had them!

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#823039 - Thu Sep 13 2012 08:20 AM Re: "Americacentricity" of quizzes [Re: english_gent]
kaddarsgirl Offline
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Registered: Wed Jun 27 2012
Posts: 1770
Loc: Ohio USA
Originally Posted By: english_gent
For example, if we have two teams competing in a quiz over three rounds (say USA Vs Europe). It would be deemed fair to have round 1 on American subjects, Round 2 on European, and round 3 on various subjects.


Of all the teams I see (the ones than tend to do well in team games and such) none of them have exclusive membership to only one country. A majority of the teams have members from all over the world, and almost every team I would bet covers at least two countries in their membership. I know you're trying to make a point with your above statement, but it would never happen that way, because the site, and the teams, are integrated.
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#823170 - Thu Sep 13 2012 12:47 PM Re: "Americacentricity" of quizzes [Re: kaddarsgirl]
english_gent Offline
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Registered: Thu Apr 30 2009
Posts: 27
Loc: Dartmouth Devon England UK
@ dg_dave - I know there will always be more US questions than any other. I've already said this in previous posts and I have no objection to that aspect, believe me.

All I'm wanting to address is the formula used in compiling the questions for the daily/hourly quizzes which a lot of people I would think wish to compete more fairly.

Maybe I am in a minority, and if so - fair enough.

AND @ dippo - I KNOW that's not how teams work here at Funtrivia. I was merely attempting to explain the principle of fairness as how I see it, and somehow explaining (poorly so it seems) how I perceived it to this site in regard to the daily/hourly quizzes.

It seems that it is one view held here, that if it's not broken, then why fix it - which is fine as far as it goes and it doesn't matter who says that (American or otherwise).

However, even if the site originally was aimed at Americans, because of the way the internet works nowadays, any website cannot restrict itself to any one geographical area (with the exception to possibly television channels etc. To say now that this site is still solely for the use of Americans would be somewhat daft, espcially as more and more non americans are members/visitors to this site (dg_dave quoted a figure of 46.2% of todays visitors being Americans - but bear in mind statistics can say anything you want it to).

All I'm putting forth is simply an idea I had which possibly could address an imbalance that I saw. Thats it - simple as. Just my opinion.

Anyone else is fully entitled to their opinion as well.

I know - some people will say if I don't like it, then maybe I should clear off.

Well, it's a possibility to be sure but, at the moment all I can say it that whilst I will be staying with this site, I am now wiser as to which quizzes I can and will take, and sadly it will mean some of the fun of this site will disappear because I will not be able to achieve some of the badges I had wished to go after.

And that for me, and hopefully for the admin team too, is something to give some thought to, because if this happens to me (and I'm just an ordinary Joe) then whats to say it won't happen (won't have happened) to others.

All I wanted to do is help get this site to improve and be better for the future, but as I've said, maybe I am just in a minority.

Everybody have fun now smile
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#823215 - Thu Sep 13 2012 01:06 PM Re: "Americacentricity" of quizzes [Re: english_gent]
Tizzabelle Offline
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Registered: Sun Jan 17 2010
Posts: 2504
Loc: Sydney NSW Australia         
Originally Posted By: dg_dave
I am the reverse of this. I know far more about MLB than I do Friends. I barely know who played on the show (I'm not sure I can even name all six), much less who played which character.

Dave, the characters were Chandler, Happy, Sleepy, Grumpy, Doc, Rachel, Monica, and Bashful. I think wink
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#823271 - Thu Sep 13 2012 01:45 PM Re: "Americacentricity" of quizzes [Re: Tizzabelle]
JanIQ Offline
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Registered: Thu Jul 09 2009
Posts: 632
Loc: Antwerp
Belgium
The last show of "Friends" I saw, had Duchess, Marie, Toulouse and Berlioz. There was also a Tom O'Malley. Lol.
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#823286 - Thu Sep 13 2012 02:01 PM Re: "Americacentricity" of quizzes [Re: english_gent]
shuehorn Offline
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Registered: Tue Jul 04 2006
Posts: 3286
Loc: Lawrenceville Georgia USA     
Originally Posted By: english_gent
[...] at the moment all I can say it that whilst I will be staying with this site, I am now wiser as to which quizzes I can and will take, and sadly it will mean some of the fun of this site will disappear because I will not be able to achieve some of the badges I had wished to go after.


english_gent, I hope you will stay and persevere. I don't think that you will be blocked at getting any of the badges due to the bias. When I look at the list of badge recipients, they are from all over the world. Even in the KO where people are pitted one on one, many times the non-US player wins a KO match, so the question content is not providing too much of an advantage in terms of geography. I am clueless at sports, no matter where they are played, and you will find that many US players are not as good at world geography than players from the rest of the world. Most US players find the questions harder and harder in the GC as they move up the ranks, and there are more and more non-US questions. This translates to things becoming easier for those with a general culture (as we say in Colombia for non ethno-centric knowledge) that is broader than just the US. Give it a chance and let us know how it goes.

Sue (who lives in the US now and also did as a child, but lived the majority of her adult life outside of the US in South America)
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#823297 - Thu Sep 13 2012 02:15 PM Re: "Americacentricity" of quizzes [Re: shuehorn]
guitargoddess Online   FT-cool
Moderator

Registered: Mon Jul 09 2007
Posts: 37026
Loc: Ottawa Ontario Canada         
Quote:
However, even if the site originally was aimed at Americans, because of the way the internet works nowadays, any website cannot restrict itself to any one geographical area (with the exception to possibly television channels etc. To say now that this site is still solely for the use of Americans would be somewhat daft, espcially as more and more non americans are members/visitors to this site (dg_dave quoted a figure of 46.2% of todays visitors being Americans - but bear in mind statistics can say anything you want it to).


The website does NOT restrict itself to any geographical area and it is NOT solely for the use of Americans and nobody is saying that. It remains, however, an American-based site. We gladly accept questions and quizzes about any country or culture, and everyone from everywhere is welcome to join, with the caveat that it is an American site. I don't see how you can willingly join and participate in an American-based website and complain that it's too American.

If you were accepted as a contestant on a regular US-based episode "Jeopardy", would you very well expect them to rearrange their questions to be not-American? You shouldn't, because it's an American show. Just as this is an American website. The only difference here is that the system doesn't purposely choose to give you American-oriented questions. It chooses at random from the questions available in the database. The database is largely American-oriented. That's the way it is.
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#823389 - Thu Sep 13 2012 03:56 PM Re: "Americacentricity" of quizzes [Re: guitargoddess]
looney_tunes Offline
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Registered: Tue Jan 20 2009
Posts: 4020
Loc: Briar Hill Victoria Australia 
And the longer you play, the more of the information becomes familiar. The colleges attended by various professional athletes of whom I have never heard doesn't stick, but I have become familiar with a whole lot of state flora and fauna, as well as their commemorative coins. These bits of information lodge right beside Zodiac dates and traits, flowers and gems associated with each month, and anniversary traditional gifts as things i never cared about until I started playing here, but which I have had to learn.
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#823395 - Thu Sep 13 2012 04:28 PM Re: "Americacentricity" of quizzes [Re: looney_tunes]
english_gent Offline
Participant

Registered: Thu Apr 30 2009
Posts: 27
Loc: Dartmouth Devon England UK
@ guitargoddess - A question please. Where does it specifically say on this site that it is an american based one??? (and I'm not talking about the forums).

AND by accepting money from people all over the world, surely you can no longer abide by saying it is simply an american site??
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#823398 - Thu Sep 13 2012 04:43 PM Re: "Americacentricity" of quizzes [Re: english_gent]
english_gent Offline
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Registered: Thu Apr 30 2009
Posts: 27
Loc: Dartmouth Devon England UK
Also, the other thing I have also noticed is simply when presented with a suggestion, in this case, mine. Most people have either said, "nah, it won't work. It is as it is and Tough" or words to that effect.

I'm not a bad guy here, although I'm beginning to get the feeling that people are jumping on me for wanting to help "improve" (or change) the site (in my eyes at least).

Actually, maybe that's not completely fair to say that.

Just people seem to think it's easier to pooh-pooh any idea then say "Well, you might have a point, but I wouldn't know how to move forward with this, if at all" type of response.

@ guitar-goddess - you analogy about being a contestant in a US base 'Jeopardy' is correct and quite rightly too 'When in Rome....' and all that, but note that in my example, I wasn't restricting it to country. Was just suggesting how something should be FAIR.

That's all I'm trying to raise the awareness about....Fairness - Well, in my eyes anyway.

Others will disagree - that's only to be expected.

Anyway, I've said more than enough on this subject. It's not getting anywhere, and I'm not one for banging my head against the wall pointlessly - I'm getting a headache smile



Edited by english_gent (Thu Sep 13 2012 04:45 PM)
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#823401 - Thu Sep 13 2012 05:01 PM Re: "Americacentricity" of quizzes [Re: english_gent]
guitargoddess Online   FT-cool
Moderator

Registered: Mon Jul 09 2007
Posts: 37026
Loc: Ottawa Ontario Canada         
I don't know that it explicitly says anywhere that the site is American-based, but if you read the Terms of Service there are several references to US law and there is a US address listed as the copyright holder. And it just is. The owner and webmaster is based out of the US. Edited to add: actually it really doesn't matter if the site is 'officially' US based since it's not the website owner who contributes all the content but the users, and there is no restriction on submitting non-American material. What matters is that over the course of the history of this site, the majority of contributors have been American or other people writing on American topics.

Money is accepted from people all over the world because every one is welcome. But no site can possibly be made entirely 'fair' for every type of person out there.

You're not the "bad guy" for making suggestions, but this has come up ad nauseum over the years. There is no perfect solution, and frankly there isn't really a "problem". No one or hardly anyone can excel at every single subject or every single game on this site, or be able to win every single badge; some games really favour speed and some people just can't compete in that regard. People who can't see well may have a bit of trouble with photo quizzes. We also have vocabulary-based games; for people for whom English isn't there first language, those are challenging. Should we remove those games? Must they be reconfigured to be more fair for that group of people? I don't think so. I mean English IS my first language and the badge that has eluded me for years and years here is the Word Wizard!

I guess to me the bottom line is that there are some things that can't or won't be 'fixed', because there's no need. People in this thread were pooh-poohing the old 'write questions on other topics' suggestion, but really, that's the best 'solution' there is. If the questions in any given category are 95% American, lower that percentage. It may not ever happen, but it COULD if there were enough international authors who cared to work on it.

No one is forced to be a paid member; if anyone feels that there isn't enough here they can do well in, they don't need to fork over any money.


Edited by guitargoddess (Thu Sep 13 2012 05:07 PM)
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#823413 - Thu Sep 13 2012 06:33 PM Re: "Americacentricity" of quizzes [Re: guitargoddess]
agony Online   content

Administrator

Registered: Sat Mar 29 2003
Posts: 12731
Loc: Western Canada
On the matter of responding to suggestions -

Terry is quite responsive to suggestions from members about improvements or changes needed to the site. Over the years there have been dozens if not hundreds of member suggestions acted upon.

In general, though, changes that involve giving more work to either Terry or the other staff, or increasing the number of things authors must do in order to get quizzes online, are only put in place if it is clear there will be an overall benefit to the majority of users.

In this case, that benefit is not at all clear. Most American users don't need it. A sizable portion of non-American users don't need it - I'm not an American myself, and most definitely would not approve of a change of this sort, as stated earlier.

There is always enough work to be done around here that we are unlikely to put a lot of effort into making a change that the majority of users would see no need for - we have other, higher, priorities. Anyone who has played the country-specific games can see that categorizing questions by country is not quite as easy as it looks - we worked quite hard at this, and it didn't really turn out all that well. We realize that on this issue, this website is less than perfect. We have other imperfections, however, that seem more solvable and that will get the attention first.

I would like to add that most of the senior staff are not Americans. We do work quite hard behind the scenes at evening the playing field where we can and at making sure questions that assume everyone in the world lives in the US do not go online.

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#823424 - Thu Sep 13 2012 08:10 PM Re: "Americacentricity" of quizzes [Re: agony]
jmorrow Offline
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Registered: Wed Oct 08 2008
Posts: 1209
Loc: Singapore
I agree completely with what agony said. I don't think this is a case of a suggestion being dismissed out of hand, or a general refusal to implement improvements on the site. Everyone who has responded in this thread has provided their reasons for their views, and it seems clear that most people simply don't see the need for this particular improvement.

english_gent, you have pointed out that because of the way the Internet works these days, no website should restrict itself by geographical area. I'm just curious, but why doesn't this inclusive and open-minded attitude apply to your trivia-playing habits? Doesn't your suggested improvement boil down to just that - a self-imposed restriction on the types of questions you would like to see in the games that you play on the site, based on geographical area?

I don't usually contribute to this thread because I don't really understand this perennial complaint about geographical bias. When I play a game on the site, I don't see each question as having an "American", "British", "Australian" or "neutral" bias. To me, the question is either about a topic I am familiar with, or it isn't. If I know the topic, I have a fighting chance at getting the answer right. If I don't, I play the question anyway, as I might just learn something new or interesting.

If the topic just doesn't hold any interest for me, I'll try to avoid the topic if I can, and if I can't, and I can't get over the fact that these questions will show up in certain games or tournaments on the site, well, I'll simply avoid playing those games or tournaments. There is already so much to do on this site, and Terry is adding more all the time, that I've never had a problem with this approach. And I have accepted long ago that there will just be some badges that I simply cannot win. Does that make the site less enjoyable somehow? Not really. As guitargoddess has said, it is impossible to please everyone all of the time.

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#823427 - Thu Sep 13 2012 09:04 PM Re: "Americacentricity" of quizzes [Re: jmorrow]
tezza1551 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Tue Feb 05 2008
Posts: 439
Loc: Western Australia
[/quote]If the topic just doesn't hold any interest for me, I'll try to avoid the topic if I can, and if I can't, and I can't get over the fact that these questions will show up in certain games or tournaments on the site, well, I'll simply avoid playing those games or tournaments. [/quote]

Well put, jmorrow. My thoughts exactly !

Edited to add.. sorry, nt sure how to do the quote thingy !


Edited by tezza1551 (Thu Sep 13 2012 09:05 PM)
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#823428 - Thu Sep 13 2012 09:09 PM Re: "Americacentricity" of quizzes [Re: jmorrow]
zorba_scank Offline
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Registered: Tue Feb 20 2007
Posts: 1904
Loc: Mumbai India
I'm one of those who didn't want the change simply because I like the variety of questions and the new things I learn on the site. This has nothing to do with how easy or difficult it may be to implement the geographical suggestion.

For newcomers it may seem like the American bias is too huge and impossible to get past but spending some time playing the games will prove it's not so bad. When I look at the top 10 Badge winners list in the Hall of Fame, only 2 out of the 10 are Americans while the rest are British, Australians, Canadians, Europeans and Asians. It's not possible to get in the top 10 without winning a majority of the hourly/daily game badges, so the fact that there are so many non-Americans proves that though there may be a bias in the question pool, it is not such a huge disadvantage for the players.

Despite having being born and brought up in India, I have ended up winning categories like US Presidents, US Govt, Mixed UK, Africa etc. It's mostly because of the stuff I've learned playing here. On the other hand, I can never do well enough in the Movies category of the Pot of Gold. Give me a Bollywood quiz and I would've probably had that badge on Day 1 but I'm just not that familiar with Hollywood/British movies and actors. That's something I have to live with and I'm ok with that.
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#823431 - Thu Sep 13 2012 09:33 PM Re: "Americacentricity" of quizzes [Re: tezza1551]
kaddarsgirl Offline
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Registered: Wed Jun 27 2012
Posts: 1770
Loc: Ohio USA
Quote:
Edited to add.. sorry, nt sure how to do the quote thingy !


Just take out the "/" in your first quote "[ ]" and that should work. Only include the "/" in the end quote.
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#823432 - Thu Sep 13 2012 09:54 PM Re: "Americacentricity" of quizzes [Re: kaddarsgirl]
agony Online   content

Administrator

Registered: Sat Mar 29 2003
Posts: 12731
Loc: Western Canada
Quote:
Edited to add.. sorry, nt sure how to do the quote thingy !


Or, rather than just starting typing in the box, click on "reply" under the previous post. You'll get a box with a lot of symbols at the top. Click on the " and put your copied bit that you want to quote in the space that comes up.

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#823450 - Fri Sep 14 2012 12:00 AM Re: "Americacentricity" of quizzes [Re: agony]
looney_tunes Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Tue Jan 20 2009
Posts: 4020
Loc: Briar Hill Victoria Australia 
Originally Posted By: agony
Quote:
Edited to add.. sorry, not sure how to do the quote thingy !


Or, rather than just starting typing in the box, click on "reply" under the previous post. You'll get a box with a lot of symbols at the top. Click on the " and put your copied bit that you want to quote in the space that comes up.

Or click on "Quote", and select the text you want to quote, deleting the rest. The open and close brackets are automatically supplied, and you have the window displayed so that you can also do clever stuff like bold, smilies, etc. At the end of the quoted bit, hit enter then type your response.

Edited to add: how clever, it even produces scroll bars if there is too much text to fit - I never noticed that before.


Edited by looney_tunes (Fri Sep 14 2012 12:01 AM)
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#823465 - Fri Sep 14 2012 01:10 AM Re: "Americacentricity" of quizzes [Re: looney_tunes]
tezza1551 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Tue Feb 05 2008
Posts: 439
Loc: Western Australia
Thank you all smile
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#823466 - Fri Sep 14 2012 02:15 AM Re: "Americacentricity" of quizzes [Re: jmorrow]
english_gent Offline
Participant

Registered: Thu Apr 30 2009
Posts: 27
Loc: Dartmouth Devon England UK
Originally Posted By: jmorrow

english_gent, you have pointed out that because of the way the Internet works these days, no website should restrict itself by geographical area. I'm just curious, but why doesn't this inclusive and open-minded attitude apply to your trivia-playing habits? Doesn't your suggested improvement boil down to just that - a self-imposed restriction on the types of questions you would like to see in the games that you play on the site, based on geographical area?



Good question, and to a degree, everyone naturally imposes upon themselves a self-restriction on which quizzes to play, mainly by their own limits of knowledge, but not always.

But my answer to your question is simply no. When it comes to selecting quizzes of your own choice, I do not look to have anything different to the current status quo.

However, when it comes to participating in the Daily/Hourly quizzes, due to the random nature of the quiz selections, this is the part that I believe there is an imbalance which I was pointing out here, and putting forth an idea of how to address.

I'm sure most of us are competing in the Global Challenge and I would like to have to be able to get to the top level, but in my opinion (and I sure someone will correct if I'm wrong) but if questions are bias and it stands to reason that more americans will get more answers correct, then the likelihood will be that too many people will get to the top level before me and therefore finish the challenge (have I got that right?).

Admittedly, it seems a small thing but I do like the aspect of badges and want to compete. Yes, I will have to learn more, and yes - more american based subjects too (but not American Sports thanks all the same). Either that or simply to forget about it all. It's that simple.

I hope that helps clarify my position.





Edited by english_gent (Fri Sep 14 2012 03:52 AM)
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#823467 - Fri Sep 14 2012 02:41 AM Re: "Americacentricity" of quizzes [Re: english_gent]
rossian Online   content
Moderator

Registered: Sat Jun 10 2006
Posts: 2181
Loc: Merseyside UK 
I've just had a look at the top ten in normal mode in GC. The top ranked player, as she so often is, is jules44 from the UK. The top ten (as a snapshot now, as it will change a bit) has 4 players from the UK, 3 from the USA, one each from Canada, South Africa and Sweden, so the perceived bias doesn't really show in those statistics.

The answer is really to keep playing regularly and choose your topics wisely, especially in GC. I avoid sport, television and movies as much as I possibly can as that's where my knowledge is weakest.

The badges are achievable - look at the Hall of Fame most badges and you will find that two of the top three are UK players, and the top ten includes Canadians, Australians and other countries too.
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#823597 - Fri Sep 14 2012 11:12 AM Re: "Americacentricity" of quizzes [Re: english_gent]
sue943 Offline

Administrator

Registered: Sun Dec 19 1999
Posts: 36531
Loc: Jersey Channel Islands        
Originally Posted By: english_gent
@ guitargoddess - A question please. Where does it specifically say on this site that it is an american based one??? (and I'm not talking about the forums).

AND by accepting money from people all over the world, surely you can no longer abide by saying it is simply an american site??



Terms of Service, scroll down to the second paragraph from the bottom if you don't want to read all of it.

Quote:
The Website is controlled and offered by FunTrivia from its facilities in the United States of America. FunTrivia makes no representations that the Website is appropriate or available for use in other locations. Those who access or use the Website from other jurisdictions do so at their own volition and are responsible for compliance with local law.
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#823634 - Fri Sep 14 2012 12:56 PM Re: "Americacentricity" of quizzes [Re: sue943]
english_gent Offline
Participant

Registered: Thu Apr 30 2009
Posts: 27
Loc: Dartmouth Devon England UK
Thank you Kind Lady smile
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#823638 - Fri Sep 14 2012 01:04 PM Re: "Americacentricity" of quizzes [Re: sue943]
Midget40 Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Mon Oct 27 2008
Posts: 5061
Loc: Perth Western Australia       
After reading all of this about how questions are accepted from 'all over the world' may I just point out that myself (and others) have been made to change certain questions because they could be a problem for American players.

I must point out that this is NOT my experience with most editors at all but it has happened.

I was warned by a few non US quiz writers before it happened to me but honestly thought they were being oversensitive or had an axe to grind.

This was the only comment on the question - there were no grammar or spelling issues etc but I could not get them online without changing them to make them more "US friendly".

Even though I'm English Australian the majority of my quizzes are not - in fact I think I only have one Australian specific quiz and that's a history one.

And when writing the single questions( if you want to actually get them to count towards a badge) the sad fact is that you have to give them a US slant to get the percentages right.

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#823655 - Fri Sep 14 2012 01:49 PM Re: "Americacentricity" of quizzes [Re: Midget40]
jabb5076 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Tue Apr 24 2012
Posts: 240
Loc: Georgia USA
In contrast to the last post, I have had two single questions rejected by editors simply because they were U.S. specific and therefore likely too difficult for players from other parts of the world. I truly believe the editors do their best to make as many questions as possible accessible to the vast majority of players, but it simply is not reasonable or realistic to expect the site to be altered/overhauled to reflect an equal distribution of questions from around the globe. And in the 11 months I've been participating in quizzes and games on this site, I've learned a fair amount about other countries' cultures and histories. That, to me at least, has been the biggest benefit of playing funtrivia. Sure, I wish we could get rid of stupid sports questions like "What was the score in Superbowl whatever," and even dumber questions involving a minor celebrity's birthday, but I realize many of these types of questions are from many years ago when standards were lower. I think we just need to accept that nothing is perfect, and appreciate the enormous variety funtrivia offers at free or minimal cost.

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