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#262580 - Thu Mar 24 2005 10:37 PM Re: Creative Spelling
gemini19 Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Tue Feb 15 2005
Posts: 2399
Loc: Toronto Ontario Canada      
Quote:

In my opinion it is the quiz maker's job to ensure, that vital pieces of the quiz, such as names of people and places, are spelled correctly.




Exactly, we are all working together here... the players need the authors, the authors need the editors and the players... it's a symbiotic relationship that keeps this place running like a well oiled machine... we all have our duties here, and like Chris said we just do them as best we can


Edited by gemini19 (Thu Mar 24 2005 10:42 PM)
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#262581 - Fri Mar 25 2005 09:03 AM Re: Creative Spelling
Bruyere Offline
Star Poster

Registered: Sat Feb 10 2001
Posts: 18792
Loc: California USA
In answer to the question about timing, (because the poor horse has been mistreated enough) it all depends on the quiz. There are lots of quizzes that take a long time to edit because they are from first time quiz makers and have quite a few errors in them. As we are anxious to give everyone a fair shake and the benefit of the doubt that they have perhaps overlooked the guidelines being readily available, that sort of quiz will take a longer time.

So, you sometimes have a quiz that has major structural things wrong with it, spelling and grammar errors, and other things that are preventing it from being considered seriously. This must be done diplomatically as lots of folks are a little sensitive about having their work corrected. We do our best and sometimes that best isn't good enough these days as people have a tendency to assume it's an automatic process, or right. Most people however, find it a great way to get their work online.

Even an experienced writer in other contexts might need assistance to make his or her quiz work well in this format. We sometimes get accused of making someone 'dumb down' his or her work, but this is almost never the case. We simply want it to reach a larger audience and we've seen all the possible responses to types of questions.
Because we have to do the clean up in the background, we can anticipate some types of questions falling flat on their faces.
We know a lot more about how some questions work now than we did when I joined up four years ago.

We also have to be careful for the daily quiz because your questions must stand alone now.

So I bet you're thinking I haven't answered your question but I have actually. It depends on the quiz you click on to edit. I know that I occasionally spend a half an hour on one person's quiz, get up for coffee and the computer goes down, arggggh. When you look at the queues, it reflects more than you think however, as there are a few quizzes in every queue that require a lot more hard work to get them into shape.

Now back to the original heinous crime committed, if it really is offensive to find human errors despite the fact that we have a way of being able to deal with that immediately (Can you actually tell a newscaster that he or she's made an error immediately? Can you get a response from a reporter in the newspaper? Can you tell the Da Vinci Code guy he's made an error?) then, perhaps using a site that accepts quizzes on an automated basis would be better. We've already spoken of several of those. I've had a look at a few of those and it isn't appealing to me.
Part of the reason I stay here is that we have more originality and not just a pub quiz screen type question or Trivial Pursuit. We have questions on every conceivable topic too. I know not everyone is happy getting these questions on their daily quiz, but so be it, it's not an automated site, it's a human site.

If it's the subject matter that motivated this question, as I suspect but cannot confirm nor do I wish to, then yes, it's unfortunate and there were rather a lot of those questions when I joined up here too. But, once the quiz is in the template here, it's a human process and no longer robotic one. If I don't realize that Axl's second wife's maiden name wasn't spelled correctly then there will undoubtedly be one of you who does. Does this mean I'm a poor music editor because I didn't catch this error? I don't think so. The burden of proof is really on the original author and it's a matter of trust established over time.
Then the players come in and if they do notice an error, they can tell the person. If the person doesn't respond, then we do. I can't think of a better system really.
As long as each person does their part of the job, we're fine.
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#262582 - Fri Mar 25 2005 03:43 PM Re: Creative Spelling
aballinshadow Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Tue Feb 26 2002
Posts: 2929
Loc: Canada
Hummm, I haven't read much of this topic, but I still had a question regarding spelling (so I thought of writing here instead of creating another topic). It was a long time ago, I created a quiz about an album from a band, and it seems that one of their songs is spelled incorrectly, however the quiz editor (can't remember who... was it you, Ladymacb29? ) prompted me to correct the spelling mistake in the song title... the problem was that even if written incorrectly, the song title is written that way (on the CD cover, on their website, etc). What happens in such a case?


Edited by aballinshadow (Fri Mar 25 2005 03:43 PM)
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Edited by aballinshadow (Fri Mar 25 2005 04:52 PM)

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#262583 - Fri Mar 25 2005 04:08 PM Re: Creative Spelling
Nemesis Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Fri Mar 11 2005
Posts: 300
Loc: Manchester
England UK     
I'm not sure as i'm not an editor, but I think in that case you would fill out with reasons (possibly the sites link) the, "I would like to ignore this complaint/correction because..." box. personally however I would send a private message to the actual editor of the quiz before doing so.
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#262584 - Fri Mar 25 2005 04:33 PM Re: Creative Spelling
agony Offline

Administrator

Registered: Sat Mar 29 2003
Posts: 14830
Loc: Western Canada
Without knowing the specifics I can't tell, but I would probably not allow the question as a fill in the blank, as players would be left wondering which spelling to use. I would also expect the author to note the situation in some way in the interesting info, if it was likely to cause problems. I would accept an incorrect spelling in a multiple choice answer, because that spelling would be correct in that context - that is, if the band spelled the word wrong in the song title, than the incorrect spelling is the correct song title. Whew! Does that make any sense?
After all, we acept "The Beatles" as the answer to "Who sang 'Can't Buy Me Love'?" even though "Beatle" is the incorrect spelling of the word 'beetle'. In the same way, we would accept "kd lang", and "ee cummings" as correct spellings of those names, even though they don't have capitals, because that is the preferred spelling of the person in question.

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#262585 - Sat Mar 26 2005 10:28 AM Re: Creative Spelling
picqero Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Tue Dec 28 2004
Posts: 2813
Loc: Hertfordshire<br>England UK
I've played quizzes which have been played hundreds of times already, yet have found spelling or other obvious errors in the quiz. Usually, though not always, I send a correction note, and have even sent corrections to authors who are also quiz editors so no-one is infallible.
I always try to be polite in sending correction notes, especially for minor spelling or 'typo' errors, but rarely receive any acknowledgement so have no idea if the error(s) have been corrected or not. I sometimes wonder if, when quizzes have been played many times and still have errors, correction notes are simply being ignored? I do accept of course that errors can be introduced into a quiz some time after it originally went on line.


Edited by aramis (Sat Mar 26 2005 10:31 AM)

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#262586 - Sat Mar 26 2005 10:44 AM Re: Creative Spelling
crisw Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Mon Feb 21 2000
Posts: 5745
Loc: California USA
Quote:

I sometimes wonder if, when quizzes have been played many times and still have errors, correction notes are simply being ignored?




This shouldn't happen. As editors, we can access a list of quizzes with unaddressed correction notes. Each category has a different policy, but all will pull such quizzes offline in some amount of time if the corrections are not addressed, and the editor cannot fix them by him/herself (I give people 5 days in my categories.)

More likely, no one else has bothered to send a correction notice! I know that I've had quizzes of my own that have been played hundreds, if not thousands of times, on which I've received legitimate correction notices.
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#262587 - Sat Mar 26 2005 10:45 AM Re: Creative Spelling
spanishliz Offline
Champion Poster

Registered: Thu Dec 13 2001
Posts: 22171
Loc: Ontario Canada
Often, if you receive no acknowledgment, it is because the quiz author no longer visits FunTrivia. As an editor, I will sometimes fix minor spelling errors on such quizzes, without sending a note to the person who reported it. If the error reported is one of fact I try always to thank the person who caught it. If the correction note is itself in error, I attempt to explain the reason for this to the person who sent the correction.

In short, no, correction notes are not being ignored, no matter how long a quiz has been online.

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#262588 - Sat Mar 26 2005 12:18 PM Re: Creative Spelling
AlienGoddess Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Tue Feb 17 2004
Posts: 4435
Loc: Pleasanton California USA   
Quote:

I sometimes wonder if, when quizzes have been played many times and still have errors, correction notes are simply being ignored?




I have had this happen to me as well, and I know that it was ignored because some time after I would send the correction notice (always a polite one, of course!), I would take that quiz again without logging in just to see if it was corrected, and it wasn't, and the quiz was still online. I think what happens is that the author reads the note, decides that my correction is incorrect (when I am 100% sure that it is correct), and clicks that the "This correction is an error" button. Does that make sense?

What always gets me is when I send a correction note, the above happens because the author believes that he/she is right, and doesn't explain to me the reasoning. I have gotten very many "incorrect" correction notices, and I ALWAYS reply back to the person who said the note and nicely explain why they are wrong. They may want to know this in case they do a quiz in the future on the same topic, or sometimes it is just nice for closure. It's no fun to keep wondering if you were either wrong or just being ignored!
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#262589 - Sat Mar 26 2005 01:04 PM Re: Creative Spelling
Leau Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Sun Jun 16 2002
Posts: 5337
Loc: Nijmegen/Brisbane
Quote:

I think what happens is that the author reads the note, decides that my correction is incorrect (when I am 100% sure that it is correct), and clicks that the "This correction is an error" button.




They can decide that your correction is incorrect, but clicking the button you mention doesn't make your correction note go away. It will still have to be reviewed by an editor. Only if the editor agrees with the "not an error" reason, the correction note will be deleted. If the "not an error" reason is incorrect, the author will be told to correct their quiz.
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#262590 - Sat Mar 26 2005 07:55 PM Re: Creative Spelling
McGruff Offline
Star Poster

Registered: Mon Apr 03 2000
Posts: 10832
Loc: Northumberland Virginia USA 
I send a lot of correction notes from the hourly quizzes and really don't require a reply back when something has been corrected. By that time, I don't remember what the question was anyway.

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#262591 - Sun Mar 27 2005 05:26 AM Re: Creative Spelling
picqero Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Tue Dec 28 2004
Posts: 2813
Loc: Hertfordshire<br>England UK
Quote:

I send a lot of correction notes from the hourly quizzes and really don't require a reply back when something has been corrected. By that time, I don't remember what the question was anyway.



McGruff, your memory span must be about the same as mine! Although it's nice to receive a reply to a correction note, it doesn't particularly bother me, and I've never gone back to check if a quiz has been corrected or not as like yourself I'd have forgotten it anyway!

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#262592 - Mon Mar 28 2005 10:10 AM Re: Creative Spelling
AlienGoddess Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Tue Feb 17 2004
Posts: 4435
Loc: Pleasanton California USA   
Quote:

They can decide that your correction is incorrect, but clicking the button you mention doesn't make your correction note go away. It will still have to be reviewed by an editor. Only if the editor agrees with the "not an error" reason, the correction note will be deleted. If the "not an error" reason is incorrect, the author will be told to correct their quiz.




I see how this works. You mentioned that if the editor agrees with the author that the error is "not an error", then the correction note will be deleted. I think what has happened with me is that the editor probably did agree with the author, since the error was specifically about the subject (a detail in a TV show, etc.), and the editor might not know anything about it, so whatever the author writes as their reasoning sounds good.
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#262593 - Mon Mar 28 2005 10:46 AM Re: Creative Spelling
agony Offline

Administrator

Registered: Sat Mar 29 2003
Posts: 14830
Loc: Western Canada
This is why is it always a good idea to include as much information as you can in your correction. Obviously, if it is something that can easily be checked, such as a spelling, or a song lyric, this isn't necessary. But, for something more obscure, the more you sound like someone who knows what she is talking about, the more seriously you are taken. Remember, roughly half of correction notes are not in fact correct, so editors do take them with a grain of salt.
If I see a correction like this: "yer wrong!!!! That nevr happened" which is then countered by a reasonable-sounding explanation from the quiz author, citing episode numbers, etc, I'm likely to believe the author. (AG, I know that your corrections don't look like this!)

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#262594 - Mon Mar 28 2005 10:53 AM Re: Creative Spelling
AlienGoddess Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Tue Feb 17 2004
Posts: 4435
Loc: Pleasanton California USA   
Quote:

AG, I know that your corrections don't look like this!




Aww, thanks agony! And you're right, it's always good to be specific in correction notices, and that is exactly what I try to do. Sometimes I think I may go overboard, but I want the author to know exactly what I'm talking about and to take me seriously. I absolutely HATE it when I get a correction note and my reaction is, "What is this person talking about?!" And when I ask to the person to clarify, they never reply! Grrr! Being specific is definitely always good.
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#262595 - Tue Apr 19 2005 09:25 PM Re: Creative Spelling
satguru Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Thu Feb 17 2000
Posts: 7617
Loc: Kingsbury London UK           
I've only just found this one (I can't be everywhere, though I sometimes try ), but had to reply to Serendipity's reluctance to use the correction note system.

I know a few editors who can often edit for a few hours a day in their own time without corrections. It's far easier for the last knockings of errors of what is often highly obscure information to be mopped up by the actual players of the quizzes, and be a joint effort, rather than stretch the editors even further.

To give an example from the quizmaker's side, I had a glaring error sitting on one of my few quizzes for about 80 plays before I was lucky enough for a player to actually notice it and allow me to get it off the quiz. Otherwise even more people would have thought Denmark still used local car licence plates, which was simply due to me mixing up a couple of pages in my reference book and then not noticing when I checked it all. It's almost impossible for the odd error not to get through when anyone makes a quiz, and ditto for editors picking them up. Therefore the correction notices are an essential back-up and there to be used.

I can understand you're not specifically having a go at editors, but the correction system is such a simple and effective one that trying to put the whole responsibility on editors, who are only members like you and me, is a bit unnecessary, especially considering how much work they do already for nothing. It is a lot easier to contact quizmakers directly when you spot something especially as the editors are alerted to it as well. And of course, correction notices aren't always right either, just like the debates in Ask at times. That's why posting links to confirm facts is encouraged, and is also the same for disputed corrections, when it happens. I've seen many officially published books etc. (and don't start me on newspaper articles) with more mistakes than you'll ever find in a Funtrivia quiz. It's called being human and fallible, and that's why all the members pull together to keep the standards up.


Edited by satguru (Tue Apr 19 2005 09:35 PM)
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#262596 - Wed Apr 20 2005 03:34 PM Re: Creative Spelling
ladymacb29 Offline
Moderator

Registered: Wed Mar 15 2000
Posts: 15899
Loc: The Delta Quadrant
satguru - I had a simple mis-spelling in a FITB question that for *two years* went without me getting a correction notice on it. And more than half of the players got marker 'correct' for the question!

Finally, a kind player noticed I was spelling the actor/character (I forget what the question was)'s name wrong and sent a correction notice. Now keep in mind that this wasn't a normal mis-spelling, this was switching around two letters like Johnson -> Johsnon, a spelling that wouldn't look right!
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