#301969 - Sat Mar 25 2006 07:02 PM
Released hostage - waste of taxpayers money or not
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Participant
Registered: Fri Mar 24 2006
Posts: 6
Loc: Bath, Avon, UK
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The hostage released this week was freed with the use of many members of the armed forces, their time, resources, planning, etc.
I'm interested in people's opinions on whether you think this is a waste of taxpayers money, when those resources are needed to badly elsewhere, or does the cause justify the expenditure?
To add my tuppence-worth, although the cause is a good one, i feel that these "do-gooders" are not, at this time, achieving much over there considering the amount of conflict and chaos, and therefore they would be better employed providing some kind of help from home.
It seems to me that kidnappings are so rife at the moment, the amount of money and resource spent on finding the hostages, planning their recovery and executing that recovery must surely outweigh the good those people may or may not have achieved during their time in Iraq.
Your thoughts?
_________________________
'If you build it, he will come'
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#301970 - Sat Mar 25 2006 07:23 PM
Re: Released hostage - waste of taxpayers money or
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Administrator
Registered: Sat Mar 29 2003
Posts: 10722
Loc: Western Canada
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I dunno - I'm in two minds about this. In one way, yes, I agree. This is a bit like those fools who get themselves stuck on the sides of mountains, requiring enormous public expenditure to get them down. In another, though - humanitarian and altruistic behaviour is something that a society wants to encourage, right? I'd feel better about it if I knew if the 'do-gooders' were actually doing any good.
I didn't agree with the invasion of Iraq (funny, though, how nobody asked my opinion) and I think that the mess there is to a large part due to the invasion - it was no bed of roses before, but it was a stable society. If some Westerners now want to go there and try to alleviate some of the harm done, I have to applaud that.
I wonder how the freed hostages feel about this - did they expect and feel entitled to rescue, or did they feel that kidnapping was just a chance they took, and took freely and knowingly?
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#301971 - Sat Mar 25 2006 08:14 PM
Re: Released hostage - waste of taxpayers money or
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Multiloquent
Registered: Wed Nov 12 2003
Posts: 2165
Loc: Nebraska USA
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I'm of two minds, like Agony. The website of the Christian Peacemaker Team is certainly an interesting read. I was and am (and will be) against the war in Iraq. It seems the CPT shares my view of the war. However... well, here: Quote:
Iraq: a Baghdad-based presence since October 2002. Team members accompanied the Iraqi people through the U.S.-led 2003 war and continue during the post-war occupation to expose abusive acts by U.S. Armed Forces and support Iraqis committed to nonviolent resistance.
This is what they say about their presence in Iraq. And this:
Quote:
Harmeet, Jim and Norman and Tom were in Iraq to learn of the struggles facing the people in that country. They went, motivated by a passion for justice and peace to live out a nonviolent alternative in a nation wracked by armed conflict. They knew that their only protection was in the power of the love of God and of their Iraqi and international co-workers. We believe that the illegal occupation of Iraq by Multinational Forces is the root cause of the insecurity which led to this kidnapping and so much pain and suffering in Iraq. The occupation must end.
They knew that their only protection was in the power of the love of God and of their Iraqi and international co-workers, but the folks who saved them were the soldiers they stand so ready to denounce. They put their lives at risk to go to Iraq to expose US soldiers for the horrible, violent, abusive dregs of society they are, and when they were kidnapped, they expected (?) those same soldiers to rescue them, at great personal risk and no small cost to the rest of us. God seems to work in mysterious ways. *removes tongue from cheek*
With the exception of the God part (and any negative feelings towards soliders merely by virtue of their occupation), I agree with their position. I'm a pacifist to the core, and I admit it. But I feel their actions are foolish, or reckless, and I'm not 100% sure I can value their "humanitarian effort" as highly as, say, feeding and sheltering people. Eh, perhaps I'm just being witchy.
The flip side is that they are people and their lives are valuable beyond that of their goals, and I could never actually think that they should have been left in the hands of those who took them. (What I do think is that they should never have put themselves in that position to start with.) They deserved rescue because their lives have value, and if some of that has to hit me in the wallet, then I'll consider it MY humanitarian effort for the day.
_________________________
Goodbye Ruth & Betty, my beautiful grandmothers.
Betty Kuzara 1921 - April 5, 2008
Ruth Kellison 1925 - Dec 27, 2007
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#301972 - Sat Mar 25 2006 09:37 PM
Re: Released hostage - waste of taxpayers money or
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Star Poster
Registered: Wed Mar 15 2000
Posts: 15285
Loc: The Delta Quadrant
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I think even without the 'we have to go rescue these people', when we rescue them, we're also catching those who kidnapped these people - so we're also catching bad guys who would have kidnapped people (maybe even their own people). So I say it's a wash, you'd be spending this money anyway trying to catch these guys and by them putting themselves (themselves meaning the bad guys) on tv saying they have hostages, it's actually helping us catch more bad guys by giving us more clues/intelligence.
Edited by ladymacb29 (Sat Mar 25 2006 09:37 PM)
_________________________
"Without the darkness, how would we see the light?" ~ Tuvok
Editor for Television Category
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#301975 - Fri Mar 31 2006 01:20 PM
Re: Released hostage - waste of taxpayers money or
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Administrator
Registered: Wed Apr 07 2004
Posts: 4819
Loc: Rothwell Northants England UK
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This may, or may not, go down very well. But, as an ex member of Her Majesty's Armed Forces I feel very strongly about these various groups that send civilians into places that are not safe. Iraq is, and will be for some time to come, an area that is not the place for people that have not had any sort of training for where they are. A Christian group, that sends people into an almost 100% Muslim country that is going through the problems that Iraq is going through, is asking for trouble. And who is left to sort it all out? The poor bloody infantry. OK, so the SAS is not exactly the PBI, but, they still have to risk their lives to rescue people that really shouldn't be there in the first place.
_________________________
Reality is an illusion brought about by lack of alcohol
Would the last person to leave the planet please turn off the lights.
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#301976 - Fri Mar 31 2006 05:23 PM
Re: Released hostage - waste of taxpayers money or
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Participant
Registered: Thu Mar 30 2006
Posts: 13
Loc: Texas, USA
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Quote:
This may, or may not, go down very well. But, as an ex member of Her Majesty's Armed Forces I feel very strongly about these various groups that send civilians into places that are not safe. Iraq is, and will be for some time to come, an area that is not the place for people that have not had any sort of training for where they are. A Christian group, that sends people into an almost 100% Muslim country that is going through the problems that Iraq is going through, is asking for trouble. And who is left to sort it all out? The poor bloody infantry. OK, so the SAS is not exactly the PBI, but, they still have to risk their lives to rescue people that really shouldn't be there in the first place.
Very well said, and very TRUE on every point!
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#301980 - Sat Apr 01 2006 08:13 AM
Re: Released hostage - waste of taxpayers money or
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Forum Champion
Registered: Tue Jan 18 2005
Posts: 8717
Loc: Arkansas USA
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May I interject something here, Jar?
I am also a Texan, and have grown used to people's misconceptions and silly comments about my home state. This is an international setting,and I realized long ago that there will be comments made from time to time by those who have limited knowledge of their subject matter. Educated, thoughtful people don't make rash generalizations about whole cultures. But for some reason, Texas seems to catch it's fair share of tiresome stereotyped comments.
I don't think the shortcomings of George Bush stem from being Texan, by the way. I think they stem from merely being George Bush. 
Edited to add: It flys in the face of both faith and common sense to send missionaries or any other non -com civilian into such a situation. But it happens all the time. And now we foot the bill for it.
Edited by ktstew (Sat Apr 01 2006 08:18 AM)
_________________________
A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is just putting on its shoes - Mark Twain
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#301982 - Sun Apr 02 2006 08:03 AM
Re: Released hostage - waste of taxpayers money or not
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Forum Adept
Registered: Mon Feb 27 2006
Posts: 150
Loc: South Carolina USA
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Quote:
The hostage released this week was freed with the use of many members of the armed forces, their time, resources, planning, etc.
I'm interested in people's opinions on whether you think this is a waste of taxpayers money, when those resources are needed to badly elsewhere, or does the cause justify the expenditure?
To add my tuppence-worth, although the cause is a good one, i feel that these "do-gooders" are not, at this time, achieving much over there considering the amount of conflict and chaos, and therefore they would be better employed providing some kind of help from home.
It seems to me that kidnappings are so rife at the moment, the amount of money and resource spent on finding the hostages, planning their recovery and executing that recovery must surely outweigh the good those people may or may not have achieved during their time in Iraq.
Your thoughts?
My thoughts are not printable. Suffice to say I'd bet you'd be singing a different tune if it was you or a loved one being held hostage.
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