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#671435 - Sat Dec 03 2011 11:54 AM Re: Alaskan ice ignores global warming [Re: satguru]
satguru Offline
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Registered: Thu Feb 17 2000
Posts: 6244
Loc: Kingsbury London UK           
I'd say this is interesting. I've always heard of the solar activity/temperature correlation, mainly found by Svensmark and dismissed by the IPCC as a minor effect. But when I found a graph and then looked for more the fit is incredible. By coincidence the CO2 has risen on a roughly similar line, easy to confuse some but unless solar activity also affects CO2, or even CO2 affects solar (it wouldn't surprise me if someone did) but if you look at the three together one does not need ninas and ninos to explain the divergence while the other does. Also any weather specialist will know the ocean releases CO2 when it gets warmer, so if there's a delay from heat to CO2 as well then all three can be explained.

Why haven't the IPCC taken a serious look at this correlation? I do know for a fact that the temperature rise/CO2 rise connection was an argument from ignorance, ie they thought they'd eliminated everything else and that's all that was left. That was before Svensmark's findings, surely science is supposed to include new material?

diagram

all explained here very clearly

full equations



Edited by satguru (Sat Dec 03 2011 12:27 PM)
_________________________
"The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible."

UN IPCC

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#671625 - Mon Dec 05 2011 10:32 AM Re: Alaskan ice ignores global warming [Re: satguru]
satguru Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Thu Feb 17 2000
Posts: 6244
Loc: Kingsbury London UK           
The last climategate produced about 1000 emails, the new has 5000 so may be quite busy here for a while. Here we have pages showing his fellow scientists were just as concerned about Michael Mann's hockey stick diagram as many outsiders are. Some of the terminology explaining exactly how is beyond outsiders to comprehend, but can be translated if someone here can, but the overall theme is they think he's pretty well up to something. But this quote is pretty clear to all.


#4133 Johnathan Overpeck – IPCC review.
what Mike Mann continually fails to understand, and no amount of references will solve, is that there is practically no reliable tropical data for most of the time period, and without knowing the tropical sensitivity, we have no way of knowing how cold (or warm)the globe actually got.

[and later]
Unsatisfying, perhaps, since people will want to know whether 1200 AD was warmer than today, but if the data doesn’t exist, the question can’t yet be answered. A good topic for needed future work.


What's that, he didn't really know? If his peers knew it why didn't the IPCC?


It's all here
_________________________
"The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible."

UN IPCC

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#671805 - Tue Dec 06 2011 02:15 AM Re: Alaskan ice ignores global warming [Re: satguru]
mehaul Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Wed Feb 03 2010
Posts: 4845
Loc: Florida USA
I found the graph you posted on the 3rd quite telling. Since our transportation swiched to internal combustion machines at the turn of the 20th C., Average temperature has largely fallen below the sunspot activity while the time period we relied on horses showed the temp to exceed the sunspot value. One might infer that if we had not switched methods of transport and all else remained the same, the average temperature could very well have greatly exceeded what we measure now. Meaning our carbon footprint due to burning fossil fuels is far better for the CO2 levels in the atmosphere than relying on hays and grains would be.
_________________________
"...Tomorrow's come a long way to help you."
Tim Davis 'Your Saving Grace' Steve Miller Band (1969)
"...Yesterday's at least a mile back."
Dale Peters 'Dreaming in the Country' James Gang (1971)

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#673066 - Mon Dec 12 2011 09:50 PM Re: Alaskan ice ignores global warming [Re: mehaul]
satguru Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Thu Feb 17 2000
Posts: 6244
Loc: Kingsbury London UK           
Two classic video interviews show you don't need to be a scientist to understand the climate figures. These Greenpeace activists interviewed don't actually know a single one!

1st interview

2nd interview


Lord Monckton is not a scientist, but simply looked up the figures and then asked people campaigning to stop climate change if they knew them. Nope. These are not random people stopped in the street (who also vote for higher taxes as the governments scare them into it, look at Australia) but Greenpeace activists campaigning for climate action.

This is a perfect demonstration of the heart leading the head, and further still other people's heads leading the hearts of the innocent, which is pure exploitation.


Edited by satguru (Mon Dec 12 2011 09:51 PM)
_________________________
"The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible."

UN IPCC

Top
#675102 - Thu Dec 22 2011 05:05 PM Re: Alaskan ice ignores global warming [Re: satguru]
satguru Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Thu Feb 17 2000
Posts: 6244
Loc: Kingsbury London UK           
I studied statistics just enough to know how to present graphs, but not to alter them, and definitely not to work out other people's alterations and work back to the original data. But I'm not a statistician. In the last few weeks a new phenomenon has reached the internet world, the 60 year oceanic cycles. Basically most ocean current cycles have a roughly 60 year period, the end result being a regular warming and cooling cycle.

By taking a 30 year average it means that you are comparing the warm and cold cycles separately, making one basically a function of the other. The point the IPCC chose for their diagram was the exact spot where the cold one ended, making the 30 year periods either side double their slopes each way as a result, which anyone with A level maths could have spotted had they had the additional knowledge of the 60 year cycles. So they used a little known feature of the climate to make nothing look like something. In reality if they'd used the correct 60 year cycle to take in the whole period into account the slopes would have been half the size, and apparently the whole associated temperature rise.

'How can they do that?' I hear you asking. That's a very good question. The simple answer is because those able to spot it do not challenge it as they are all working on the same project. The longer answer is that using graphs and adjustments, especially if the original data is kept under injunction (as is the case in many universities including a failed challenged to one in Pennsylvania this year), areas you want to highlight can be magnified, areas at angles which are too low can be increased (the favoured method), and ultimately inconvenient data can just be removed (eg tree rings from 1978). As without the internet no one on earth outside the community would have access to this material we'd all assume it was the only way it could be read. Nope, the coastguard data is accurate as people's lives depend on it. The earlier material from the 60s and before was as accurate as they could manage given the equipment, as there was no reason not to, and climatology itself only existed in the 70s when the Climate Research Unit was set up at the University of East Anglia. Prior to that this work was done by meteorologists paid for short term forecasts and coastguards who tried to save people's lives. It was only when money and politics became involved that these tricks became the norm if the money was to continue coming in.

Graphs site

This explains very clearly how the graphs would have looked originally compared to the ones the IPCC used (same graphs, same data, one equation less applied only) and exactly how they did it.

If your bank or company you invested in had been found to have done this with their figures to make a profit look twice as good as it really was to attract more investors what would have happened if they were caught? It's never happened in the climate world though.
_________________________
"The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible."

UN IPCC

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#675424 - Sun Dec 25 2011 09:30 AM Re: Alaskan ice ignores global warming [Re: satguru]
satguru Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Thu Feb 17 2000
Posts: 6244
Loc: Kingsbury London UK           
To anyone who thinks the climate figures don't quite add up, here's your Christmas present. If anyone thinks they do then this may at least calm their fears about an imminent climate catastrophe.

This email has both a list of accusations and an open admission, made in private but made public. And if there are a few of these found so far already then wouldn't that mean there would be many more we don't know about as well? That's how finding evidence usually works anyway.

"Warmist Ray Bradley: "I am as guilty as the rest--I made up something from a corner of my brain on p.33 of my paleoclimatology book!"

And now in its full context:

"Email 4924

There is another side to this which you don't mention --the first attempt to expand by
factors of 10, different so-called "global temperatures" was in the 1975 GARP report,
Understanding Climatic Change. In that, for the last 1000 years they used Lamb's
eastern European winter severity index. This version then got reproduced and further
mangled in several later publications, as shown in Tom's chapter. I am as guilty as the
rest--I made up something from a corner of my brain on p.33 of my paleoclimatology
book! But I did say schematic...! [Ray Bradley]"

ie: There was an error included in a climate report used to inform the world's scientists and citizens, the group were both aware of them, republished them, and then finally enhanced them to make them appear even more frightening.

"We have to make it scary!", one of my earlier quotes.


Edited by satguru (Sun Dec 25 2011 09:33 AM)
_________________________
"The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible."

UN IPCC

Top
#675698 - Mon Dec 26 2011 09:19 PM Re: Alaskan ice ignores global warming [Re: satguru]
satguru Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Thu Feb 17 2000
Posts: 6244
Loc: Kingsbury London UK           
Following the graphs I posted a few days ago I've now found a complete analysis, showing the US temperature data has been run through a formula post-collection that tilts all charts up at one end and down at the other. Dr Tim Ball, one of the top experts, said this is not done in any area of climate science and this is now one of the clearest pieces of evidence yet they are fixing the data.

The fake graphs

Which is why I insist everyone is capable of understanding climate science if someone qualified does the work and presents it to us, and if I am told that a graph should not under any circumstances ever be tweaked once completed then I would normally take that as read. Especially where the formula used creates the exact results the authorities involved are clearly looking for. The phrase that comes up all the time in the second set of emails is 'The Cause'. Now that, to me at least, is not science any more.


Edited by satguru (Mon Dec 26 2011 09:20 PM)
_________________________
"The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible."

UN IPCC

Top
#679190 - Sat Jan 07 2012 08:39 PM Re: Alaskan ice ignores global warming [Re: satguru]
satguru Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Thu Feb 17 2000
Posts: 6244
Loc: Kingsbury London UK           
Goodness me, while I'm breaking my back here trying to analyse scientific data said scientists are coming out of the woodwork far and wide simply admitting they basically make it up for 'the cause'. Had the media done as much to share this information as I had there would simply be no issue any longer. These are so blatant they are clearly what the mafia calls 'made men', those so high in the organisation they are fireproof and protected by the authorities. But at least we now know:

“The data doesn't matter. We're not basing our recommendations on the data. We're basing them on the climate models.”

Prof. Chris Folland, Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and Research

“The models are convenient fictions that provide something very useful.”

Dr David Frame, Climate modeler, Oxford University

"It doesn't matter what is true, it only matters what people believe is true."

Paul Watson, Co-founder of Greenpeace

"Unless we announce disasters no one will listen."

Sir John Houghton, First chairman of IPCC

"No matter if the science of global warming is all phony... climate change provides the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world."

Christine Stewart, former Canadian Minister of the Environment

-------------------------------

Having read this, can anyone who previously disagreed with me understand why I am doing this and it is not as clear as you thought?
_________________________
"The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible."

UN IPCC

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#679288 - Sun Jan 08 2012 02:52 PM Re: Alaskan ice ignores global warming [Re: satguru]
Ghosttowner Offline
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Registered: Thu Apr 30 2009
Posts: 104
Loc: Tonopah Nevada USA          
Those last comments by so-called "experts" are truly scary! Just a side note, I saw an article today that an icebreaker is rushing to rescue a town in Alaska that is iced in! Hmmmm, seems that the ice in the Arctic is back to normal despite all those alarms from warmists. After they proclaimed that the ice was disappearing, it turned out the satellite measuring it had a mysterious malfuction that discounted most of the ice.

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#679316 - Sun Jan 08 2012 04:55 PM Re: Alaskan ice ignores global warming [Re: Ghosttowner]
satguru Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Thu Feb 17 2000
Posts: 6244
Loc: Kingsbury London UK           
That's interesting, I'd like to see a link for that. The world ice has never shrunk, 90% is at the Antarctic and that is growing at 1% a decade while the Arctic shrunk 2% in 2007 and then as you pointed out has now recovered, and froze at a very fast rate this winter and early by about a month. So although I knew the ice had definitely not shrunk overall (hardly a sign of a global rise in temperature) I didn't realise some of the reports it had shrunk may be wrong as well. It really seems to be unravelling in front of our eyes.
_________________________
"The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible."

UN IPCC

Top
#679453 - Mon Jan 09 2012 01:22 PM Re: Alaskan ice ignores global warming [Re: satguru]
nautilator Offline
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Registered: Mon Jan 09 2012
Posts: 154
Loc: Pennsylvania USA
It looks like that list isn't yours. Here is a site which has them -- and it cites an old Reddit post as the original source on that list.

This shows that your supposed quote from John Houghton is a fabrication.

I'm curious if any of the other quotes are fabricated or taken out of context. Searching for them only turns up lists of global warming denial quotes.


Edited by nautilator (Mon Jan 09 2012 01:24 PM)

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#679577 - Mon Jan 09 2012 07:33 PM Re: Alaskan ice ignores global warming [Re: nautilator]
satguru Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Thu Feb 17 2000
Posts: 6244
Loc: Kingsbury London UK           
Unfortunately without the weight of the CIA behind me some evidence on both sides will always fall at the final hurdle, but I do know 100% the Mike Hulme quote and others on post-normal science come from a newspaper interview printed in full on their own website (I expect I linked it somewhere at the time), and others have been in print, such as the Club of Rome 1996 report which was published for public consumption. Then we have the climategate quotes which have never been claimed as false by anyone connected which say the same sort of things about climate modelling as they didn't think anyone was going to hear it.

So basically I can verify enough from their original sources to say that if a few aren't accurate they definitely do reflect the attitude and operation of the IPCC and all below it. Had I not unearthed some absolutely direct quotes such as Ottmar Edenhofer's in a verbatim translation in November 2010 'This is no longer about the environment, it is about economic redistribution', that itself expresses the point that the agenda is now totally out in the open, climate policies are a means to a different end, ie centralised control and taxation. The cause is long gone, the data since the 80s when this was first proposed by a couple of fringe scientists, including Roger Revelle who later changed his mind, has been shown to be so far off the mark the expectations they had then of 7C rises and 20 feet sea level by 2100 now look like a poor science fiction film (actually, it was).

As extrapolating from today's figures shows the sea is heading for a 10 inch rise unless the current reversal goes back to about 8 for the previous century, world ice has just stabilised following the recent Arctic freeze, and the temperature is heading for around a 1C increase as most who still dare to make predictions say the current multidecadal ocean cycles and solar activity mean it's quite likely not to rise at all for 20-30 years. There won't be long left for anything like a whole degree if that's the case.

Overall the current reality is an extremely typical stable climate within normal parameters. Only the CO2 is rising, and the claims made in the 80s and 90s when actually able to check online for myself were so way off the mark I instantly woke up and thought something must be wrong. Unfortunately 10 years of digging since shows such a complete network of interconnected vested interests even if one or two quotes have been invented I am in no doubt the sentiments expressed are genuine, especially as I have heard a good few repeated elsewhere to confirm it was not a single individual (albeit extremely powerful) but whole departments. And would you deliberately name names on your website knowing it wasn't true? It's not a very sensible idea for anyone to risk that.

I linked that site originally but since then they've added these quotes, which was indeed where they came from, but didn't remember to mention it as I'd posted the link earlier already. It's very interesting a newspaper was happy to correct such a quote when claimed to be inaccurate (I've never seen any of the others outside the internet), but actually I wondered myself, as he did refer to the 100% genuine quote by the late Stephen Schneider, as copied from it here:

In fact, his view on the matter of generating scare stories to publicise climate change is quite the opposite. "There are those who will say 'unless we announce disasters, no one will listen', but I'm not one of them," Sir John told The Independent.]

The full quote goes:

“We need to get some broad based support, to capture the public’s imagination… So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements and make little mention of any doubts… Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest.”

Now how that got to become Sir John Houghton may have been Chinese Whispers, but then again he did know the attitude existed and happy to state although he did not agree others did (and most definitely still do, including Mike Hulme who said more or less the same thing in his interview). It's all based on the theory of post-normal science, a modern rewrite of Machiavelli where the end justifies the means. It is not in any question this is certainly how some of the IPCC providers work as they have said so, and have no reason to expect any others within it not to follow otherwise they would probably be replaced.


Edited by satguru (Mon Jan 09 2012 07:48 PM)
_________________________
"The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible."

UN IPCC

Top
#684308 - Thu Jan 26 2012 09:16 PM Re: Alaskan ice ignores global warming [Re: satguru]
mehaul Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Wed Feb 03 2010
Posts: 4845
Loc: Florida USA
Satguru, I thought you might appreciate this opinion expressed by ex-Senator Rick Santorum in the Florida Republican Party Primary debate tonight on CNN. He called out former House Speaker Newt Gingrich and ex-Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney as having bought into and succumbed to the Global Warming Hoax. It was the next to last thing said as the closing statement by any of the candidates. A position which should make many remember it.
_________________________
"...Tomorrow's come a long way to help you."
Tim Davis 'Your Saving Grace' Steve Miller Band (1969)
"...Yesterday's at least a mile back."
Dale Peters 'Dreaming in the Country' James Gang (1971)

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#684575 - Fri Jan 27 2012 08:35 PM Re: Alaskan ice ignores global warming [Re: mehaul]
satguru Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Thu Feb 17 2000
Posts: 6244
Loc: Kingsbury London UK           
Glad to hear it, sadly it looks like popularism is going to trump policies yet again with the selection, but I'd spotted that months ago and both of them have a web page on an environmental group's site showing their long record of changing their mind every few months when it suited them. if you can do it on one topic you will do it on most. Ron Paul and Santorum have never changed their positions from day one, and again represents their personal natures. I can only hope a few viewers appreciate it and realise they are literally the only two top politicians in the western world with such an opinion, none of ours do here or in Australia, although Canada have pulled out of Kyoto it wasn't to do with the science but a political move probably more based on dwindling funds. Those two candidates are the last hope for the forseeable future of a voice on the UN to challenge this utter nonsense.

When you see these studies I've added here over the last few years and put them all together, plus the rest I haven't included, it is impossible to accept that the tiny changes since 1850 mean a thing, and would all be passed over should the CO2 not risen suddenly. My latest investigation has been into computer models and discovered the whole IPCC existence is not based on current and past measurements but long-term projections created by programmers who have never seen CO2 above the present figure. Needless to say in the 20 years or so since they began, to quote Kevin Trenberth at the very top,

Hi all

Well I have my own article on where the heck is global warming ? We are asking that here in Boulder where we have broken records the past two days for the coldest days on record. We had 4 inches of snow. The high the last 2 days was below 30F and the normal is 69F, and it smashed the previous records for these days by 10F. The low was about 18F and also a record low, well below the previous record low.

This is January weather (see the Rockies baseball playoff game was canceled on saturday and then played last night in below freezing weather).

Trenberth, K. E., 2009: An imperative for climate change planning: tracking Earth’s global energy. Current Opinion in Environmental Sustainability, 1, 19-27, doi:10.1016/j.cosust.2009.06.001. [1][PDF] (A PDF of the published version can be obtained from the author.)
***

The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t. The CERES data published in the August BAMS 09 supplement on 2008 shows there should be even more warming: but the data are surely wrong. Our observing system is inadequate.***


Had their private convos not been cyber-eavesdropped we'd have assumed they were in a consensus. Nothing of the sort. If those at the top have their doubts, then so we all should.
_________________________
"The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible."

UN IPCC

Top
#684900 - Sat Jan 28 2012 08:36 PM Re: Alaskan ice ignores global warming [Re: satguru]
satguru Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Thu Feb 17 2000
Posts: 6244
Loc: Kingsbury London UK           
Anyone fancy a huge dose of reality? About 20 years ago the UN produced a series of projections for temperature at different levels of CO2. They couldn't have been more specific, and despite this never having happened in our history till now, were confident their paper calculations then run through a computer were good enough.

Now we are two decades later we have the real data to compare. The only question is how long will it have to take before they diverge before anyone actually notices? (I noticed years ago, hence my mission to share it as far as possible).

Bottom line, our temperature is now below what they forecast with NO rise in CO2. So how can the two be connected? Anyone?

2011 real figures vs IPCC projection

So while scientists not working for big government continue to turn out data saying 'nothing's happened' how long can it be that big government can convince nearly everyone it is? If the papers and TV actually published graphs like this then pretty quickly I'd imagine. After all, nearly everyone is capable of catching up with new information and here it is.
_________________________
"The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible."

UN IPCC

Top
#686521 - Thu Feb 02 2012 04:00 PM Re: Alaskan ice ignores global warming [Re: satguru]
satguru Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Thu Feb 17 2000
Posts: 6244
Loc: Kingsbury London UK           
More lovely quotes indicating the true agenda behind global warming. Don't look at the problem as the closer you do the less you actually see. Look at the attempted solutions. This is what is actually happening:


"A massive campaign must be launched to de-develop the United States. De-development means bringing our economic system into line with the realities of ecology and the world resource situation." - Paul Ehrlich, Professor of Population Studies

"The only hope for the world is to make sure there is not another United States. We can't let other countries have the same number of cars, the amount of industrialization, we have in the US. We have to stop these Third World countries right where they are." - Michael Oppenheimer, Environmental Defense Fund

"The big threat to the planet is people: there are too many, doing too well economically and burning too much oil." – Sir James Lovelock, BBC Interview

"We require a central organizing principle - one agreed to voluntarily. Minor shifts in policy, moderate improvement in laws and regulations, rhetoric offered in lieu of genuine change - these are all forms of appeasement, designed to satisfy the public’s desire to believe that sacrifice, struggle and a wrenching transformation of society will not be necessary." - Al Gore, Earth in the Balance

"Global Sustainability requires the deliberate quest of poverty, reduced resource consumption and set levels of mortality control." - Professor Maurice King

This created UN Agenda 21 and every single policy since has been part of this. Have you ever seen it in the papers? I doubt it, but it's an actual policy document in the public domain. Don't be fooled by the words, this is what it's really about.

Agenda 21 and history

Now if you understand these plans you'll understand why I often spend hours a day (as I have for most of this afternoon) researching and publicising what is the greatest scandal since Hitler's final solution. What do you think 'Mortality control' means? Genocide is the actual translation. Through causing poverty. Depopulation.
_________________________
"The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible."

UN IPCC

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#687358 - Sun Feb 05 2012 04:25 PM Re: Alaskan ice ignores global warming [Re: satguru]
satguru Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Thu Feb 17 2000
Posts: 6244
Loc: Kingsbury London UK           
One good thing about physical graphs is however long it takes the details can be dug up, and when the thousands of individual measurements which went into one of the most important graphs ever used (the one which keeps the IPCC going) are gradually analysed, it is discovered they were selected from those which allowed the trend to increase and left out either huge areas which didn't, or just didn't have any at all.

This is the second of James Hansen's back engineered graphs, the last showed 75% of the coverage had been added manually as not covered by actual measurements, and instead of putting in a neutral figure put one in which made everything rise by far more than it should have.

I don't know how many times scientists will have to be caught doing this before we all realise that that is how they get their figures altogether- how could they need to alter and select specific figures if it was all warming as they claim? Hansen I must add has never once been taken to task or questioned on these graphs. He is the top dog who is basically Al Gore's sidekick and both protected and instructed by the IPCC to produce the goods every year. There simply isn't anyone higher to question it, we all know (at least those who have seen the links) yet besides realising it takes a huge amount of effort to keep these graphs showing what they need, the laws keep being passed to decarbonise the world at a cost greater than any bank crash or recession.

On the same day various scientists have also published graphs and articles explaining how and why temperatures have stabilised and are now falling. Believe it or not a statistician armed with the raw data can even show that from Hansen's diagrams. Why?

As there is only one set of temperature data.

Any other variations have been created by leaving out the cooler ones or simply altering the old data to fit. It isn't possible to defend this action as it is like having your fingerprints on the stolen goods, there's simply no way round it. Yet it goes on regardless and has no effect whenever exposed. That is the ultimate level of corruption as nearly every country of the world sponsors the IPCC directly and can challenge its findings. They all have access to far more data than I do and choose to look the other way.

The latest exposure of DIY temperature rises


Edited by satguru (Sun Feb 05 2012 04:26 PM)
_________________________
"The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible."

UN IPCC

Top
#688130 - Wed Feb 08 2012 05:06 AM Re: Alaskan ice ignores global warming [Re: satguru]
Tizzabelle Online   content
Prolific

Registered: Sun Jan 17 2010
Posts: 1989
Loc: Sydney NSW Australia         
Professor Dr. Fritz Vahrenholt is a leading German socialist politician and environmentalist. He was reviewing some things the IPCC had to say (which were in his area of expertise) and was horrified to find many errors. This caused him to research more and find more mistakes all through the IPCC's methods and reports. He is now the co-author of a skeptical book. He's realised the giant scam AGW is. Germany newspaper "Bild" is running stories about the professor's epiphany. Perhaps this is the "tipping point" leading to more and more honesty in the science, the revelation of who the fraudsters have been, the flushing out of those who have deceived the public and political bodies to advance their aims. Oh joy! Maybe the world can soon turn away from the AGW mess (usually) well-meaning people have created and look at the real environmental issues out there. Billions if not trillions of dollars have been spent by governments trying to control something they had no hope in controlling as it never really existed.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/02/06/germany-in-skeptical-turmoil-on-both-climate-and-windfarms/
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Editor Animals, Brain Teasers and Geography.
Save the Earth - It's the only planet with chocolate!

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#688227 - Wed Feb 08 2012 12:01 PM Re: Alaskan ice ignores global warming [Re: Tizzabelle]
mehaul Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Wed Feb 03 2010
Posts: 4845
Loc: Florida USA
Tizzabelle, could you expand your acronym AGW, please? I'm sure the GW stands for Global Warming, but the A eludes me.
_________________________
"...Tomorrow's come a long way to help you."
Tim Davis 'Your Saving Grace' Steve Miller Band (1969)
"...Yesterday's at least a mile back."
Dale Peters 'Dreaming in the Country' James Gang (1971)

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#688292 - Wed Feb 08 2012 02:16 PM Re: Alaskan ice ignores global warming [Re: mehaul]
Tizzabelle Online   content
Prolific

Registered: Sun Jan 17 2010
Posts: 1989
Loc: Sydney NSW Australia         
Ooops.. it's Anthropogenic Global Warming i.e. man-made. smile
_________________________
Editor Animals, Brain Teasers and Geography.
Save the Earth - It's the only planet with chocolate!

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#688317 - Wed Feb 08 2012 03:42 PM Re: Alaskan ice ignores global warming [Re: Tizzabelle]
mehaul Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Wed Feb 03 2010
Posts: 4845
Loc: Florida USA
TY
_________________________
"...Tomorrow's come a long way to help you."
Tim Davis 'Your Saving Grace' Steve Miller Band (1969)
"...Yesterday's at least a mile back."
Dale Peters 'Dreaming in the Country' James Gang (1971)

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#688363 - Wed Feb 08 2012 05:03 PM Re: Alaskan ice ignores global warming [Re: mehaul]
satguru Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Thu Feb 17 2000
Posts: 6244
Loc: Kingsbury London UK           
Thanks Tizzabelle, I read the Bild article and seemed it was more a result of the current economic hardship than any actual questioning of the theory. It's costing every country billions and it's really kicking us all while we're down in Europe and they were the first to complain about it. If a genuine and official questioning of the theory follows it will indeed be a welcome release.

Today's news, after a decade or more of me (and millions of ordinary people) pointing out all current variations, even the ones that needed adjustments to do so, only demonstrate normal variations, has been published officially. The latest study simply says 'No, these current figures are perfectly normal and why the heck are you all making such a fuss.' The rise since 1800 or so (they don't specify any more exact period) has been the sharpest, but the point is not changed in that the range itself it has risen within is normal.

Peer reviewed- it's all normal

It's the CO2 which has confused people as they assume it must actually do something, so if you look for trouble you blame anything and everything on the imaginary demons, and end up ducking witches.

If only everyone was allowed to know all this through the media (the Daily Mail has published the IPCC graph which shows us now below the lowest estimate for 2010 so it's just begun over here at least) I can't imagine enough people to matter could still swallow the powerful diet of pure junk the media and politicians turn out all the time in their own personal interests and definitely not yours or mine. The truth has to catch up, and many times faster with the internet to allow it free.


Edited by satguru (Wed Feb 08 2012 05:13 PM)
_________________________
"The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible."

UN IPCC

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#691177 - Fri Feb 17 2012 08:08 PM Re: Alaskan ice ignores global warming [Re: satguru]
satguru Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Thu Feb 17 2000
Posts: 6244
Loc: Kingsbury London UK           
Anyone with faith in scientists should use this example as the true nature of science, learning from new information and technology:

"The world's greatest snow-capped peaks, which run in a chain from the Himalayas to Tian Shan on the border of China and Kyrgyzstan, have lost no ice over the last decade, new research shows.

The discovery has stunned scientists, who had believed that around 50bn tonnes of meltwater were being shed each year and not being replaced by new snowfall."


Reality is gradually taking over from the models, and it's what those using common sense rather than computer programs had already worked out. Will the politicians catch up? Not while their power depends on it being otherwise. The red bit has been highlighted by me as it also demonstrates what the bible (I think) describes as 'feet of clay'.

Full article

Psychologically it's also interesting the way the author still tries to divert attention away from the self-evident headline and muddy the water away from the facts. That is such poor reporting it ought to be sued for bringing the profession into disrepute, if such a law existed.


Edited by satguru (Sat Feb 18 2012 07:44 PM)
_________________________
"The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible."

UN IPCC

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#775308 - Fri Mar 02 2012 07:10 PM Re: Alaskan ice ignores global warming [Re: satguru]
satguru Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Thu Feb 17 2000
Posts: 6244
Loc: Kingsbury London UK           
I am not normally one to go off half-cocked, but this new development is almost as much about its potential as its result, so will go for it anyway.

A couple of weeks ago the Heartland Institute, a relatively small group dedicated to realism on global warming had its documents removed by someone pretending to be officially using them. They then added one which they hadn't obtained which was a forgery. This itself is pretty meaningless as dirty tricks are de rigeur around this field as anyone knows who has followed it, but the major news is this klutz is now being investigated by the FBI, and already found a connection (as I've always said they are working as a massive team) with the daddy of them all, James Hansen, possibly the creator of the story as gave a presentation to congress in 1988 which ended up creating world policy through the UN. Obama has actually put in $2.5 billion into climate change research, while being in the greatest debt the country has ever known.

I have also learnt that the only reason climategate1 did not attract criminal proceedings was an extremely unusual defence of limitation, as the Freedom of Information Act was written to only apply to breaches under 6 months old, and they waited till the limit was over to make sure nothing was done. In Britain no criminal law has a statute of limitations, and almost none have specific exceptions to that rule, this being one. The act was clearly made in breach of the act, possibly on multiple occasions (a similar case has just been lost in the USA, the only one of its kind) but the loophole worked.

But after two escapes using a number of ingenious methods (science is not my area of study despite a huge interest, but law is), maybe the third time they will not be so lucky. This is the first time any criminal authority has even looked at the climate organisation, and within days have already turned up the seeds of a conspiracy as the report is out. So although I'd normally wait till the verdict, this at least has taken the area into brand new territory and from my own investigations was only a matter of time.

Here's the story

The legal bit


Edited by satguru (Fri Mar 02 2012 07:11 PM)
_________________________
"The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible."

UN IPCC

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#775375 - Sat Mar 03 2012 02:36 AM Re: Alaskan ice ignores global warming [Re: satguru]
Ghosttowner Offline
Forum Adept

Registered: Thu Apr 30 2009
Posts: 104
Loc: Tonopah Nevada USA          
Hi Satguru,

Been really following the Heartland issue. Personally, I feel it couldn't have happened to a better person than Gleick. Especially since he has been constantly whining about Heartland's spending on exposing alarmists. Funny considering that Heartland only raises a couple of million a year and his organization got tens of millions from energy organizations! I think with the exposure of Gleick for what he truly is provides more proof, along with all of the previous emails exposing the collusion with other scientists, that the whole scam is falling apart. The alarmists are in full panic mode and I am truly enjoying the squirming! Too bad that none of the truly scientific temperature measurements are helping them out since temperatures have been steady or dropping for the last ten years. Also, just saw an article by some AGW activists that used a graph showing that ocean levels have been dropping steadily (not rising) and said that the extensive ice melt at the poles was causing too much rain to fall in Australia, causing the water drop. What???? I thought we all were going to drown by 2015! Keep up providing your information. I might not always comment but I always read your updates.


Edited by Ghosttowner (Sat Mar 03 2012 02:37 AM)

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