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#469406 - Wed Apr 29 2009 07:35 PM Re: Closed Categories
guitargoddess Online   FT-cool
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Registered: Mon Jul 09 2007
Posts: 39254
Loc: Ottawa Ontario Canada         
Quote:


n. Whichever, but the biggest issue here, and a huge thorn with a lot of staff members is, why are non-staff members who are not qualified to 'provide remedies' or give suggestions, do that?





I see what you're saying, Nightmare, and understand that it would be frustrating and more work for you in the end to straighten out faulty information. But, this IS a discussion forum, and (as I understand it anyway) one of its purposes is for inexperienced quiz authors to ask for quiz advice from more experienced authors, not solely limited to editors. If that's what the editors want, for only themselves to be able to answer quiz maker's questions, then perhaps it ought not to be a public discussion forum. In this particular case, the original poster asked about closed categories and if they could be re-opened... we offered some general reasons for why categories get closed, and when certain types may be re-opened. The original poster didn't give more specific information about the quiz they wrote or the category they chose (at first), so of course we didn't know the behind the scenes stuff. It was asked, and answered, in a general way, and it was also mentioned that each category is different and that closed categories are at the discretion of the category editors. I hope I'm not coming across as snarky, but I don't really see how, in this particular forum, how it was a problem that non-staff members provided general information for someone who is inexperienced with the quiz making process.
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#469407 - Wed Apr 29 2009 07:46 PM Re: Closed Categories
stuthehistoryguy Offline
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Registered: Fri Aug 20 2004
Posts: 1302
Loc: Omaha Nebraska USA      
Quote:

Editors get questions all the time about "Whaddya think" about creating certain quizzes from authors. The editors work with them to help them construct a proper quiz in a proper category.




That's the point, really. Communication is good.

Thank you, Nightmare. Keep it up - you're coming through.
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#469408 - Wed Apr 29 2009 07:52 PM Re: Closed Categories
kyleisalive Offline
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Registered: Mon Mar 07 2005
Posts: 7934
Loc: Toronto, Canada, eh!
Quote:

Quote:

n. Whichever, but the biggest issue here, and a huge thorn with a lot of staff members is, why are non-staff members who are not qualified to 'provide remedies' or give suggestions, do that?






This is me trying to understand things. Pretty much nothing more.





And that's perfectly fine. I think the reason Nightmare is irked about the situation is that we will frequently get other users trying to help out, but in certain situations, the information being passed down over the forum may not be true because, as the post says, that person is not a member of the editing staff.
Most editors (if not all) will have it written in their signature that they are an editor and there is a list of editors at the top of the forum. I understand that many of the members who have written quizzes do want to help out, but inquiring members should know that these members are not the final word on the matter.
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#469409 - Wed Apr 29 2009 07:55 PM Re: Closed Categories
stuthehistoryguy Offline
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Registered: Fri Aug 20 2004
Posts: 1302
Loc: Omaha Nebraska USA      
A fine point, Messr. Kyle. I have ergo adjusted my signature to reflect same.
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#469410 - Wed Apr 29 2009 09:43 PM Re: Closed Categories
skunkee Offline
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Registered: Thu Oct 16 2003
Posts: 10534
Loc: Burlington Ontario Canada  
Quote:

But, this IS a discussion forum, and (as I understand it anyway) one of its purposes is for inexperienced quiz authors to ask for quiz advice from more experienced authors, not solely limited to editors.




I might be mistaken, but I believe that this is the thread that used to be called 'Ask an Editor' (or words to that effect), which is why there is a list of Editors' names at the top.
The name was changed because no matter what we tried, non-editors would not stop answering. It then became a concern that players would take what they said as gospel, assuming that they were editors because of the name of the Forum.
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#469411 - Wed Apr 29 2009 10:54 PM Re: Closed Categories
funnybuni Offline
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Registered: Tue Oct 14 2008
Posts: 301
Loc: Florida USA
Quote:


I give up.




I get you, Nightmare. I do...


Quote:

And that's perfectly fine. I think the reason Nightmare is irked about the situation is that we will frequently get other users trying to help out, but in certain situations, the information being passed down over the forum may not be true because, as the post says, that person is not a member of the editing staff.




I see. That's why I enjoy reading these forums. There is so much information on here - not only on quizmaking, but on 'everything under the sun'.
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#469412 - Thu Apr 30 2009 04:13 AM Re: Closed Categories
sue943 Offline
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Registered: Sun Dec 19 1999
Posts: 37330
Loc: Jersey
Channel Islands    
I have posted in this forum and also in the Feedback forum on a number of occasions about this problem. It is extremely confusing for a person who has come to the forums specifically to ask a question to receive uninformed replies, they might take the first reply they get as being fact and it could be completely wrong.

As agony said, we did change the name of this forum to Ask The Editors and that had no effect on non-editors offering opinions. Whereas it is true to say that some non-editors do give accurate information that is not true of all the people who offer opinions.

What can be even more galling is when an editor has given a reply for a non-editor to comment that the information given by the editor is correct - why post any further comment?

Unfortunately we cannot prevent non-editors posting replies in this forum as they need to be able to ask questions and then might need to ask a further question related to the initial question once they have received a reply from the editors.

So please ONLY post a reply if you are 100% positive that it is correct, better still permit the editors to answer the questions as they KNOW the full story as has been said.

You will notice that I very rarely respond to questions regarding the quiz editing, that is because I am not an editor. I leave it to those who know the answer rather than to offer my opinion and perhaps get it wrong.
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#469413 - Thu Apr 30 2009 06:45 AM Re: Closed Categories
agony Offline

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Registered: Sat Mar 29 2003
Posts: 14800
Loc: Western Canada
I would just like to point out that while the site has rules and guidelines, which everyone strives to follow, in the end every quiz is judged on a case by case basis, according to the lights of the editor involved.

*That* editor is the one to talk to about *that* quiz.

You may feel you have followed the guidelines to the best of your ability, and you may have the support of everyone on this forum, editors and non editors alike, but unless you have the support of the editor working on your quiz, it doesn't matter. If a TV editor feels she has reason to reject your quiz, according to the TV guidelines and her experience in editing thousands of TV quizzes, then it doesn't matter if a Lit editor would maybe allow such a quiz in Lit. We strive for consistency, but consistency is not the only or most important goal here.

Just because agony says "Yeah, I'd probably allow that" to a generally worded question here, it does NOT mean that you then can go to Nightmare and say "Agony told me my quiz is fine and you have to put it online". The editorial staff here doesn't play that game - we are not your parents and won't be played against each other.

If you have a problem with a specific quiz, deal with it with your specific editor.

agony - editor in Lit, Music, Humanities, Kids' Books

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#469414 - Thu Apr 30 2009 02:34 PM Re: Closed Categories
ladymacb29 Offline
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Registered: Wed Mar 15 2000
Posts: 15897
Loc: The Delta Quadrant
Quote:



Would you have the same thought if the person didn't just submit a quiz to see what you would say, but rather sent you a note explaining their idea? It's, of course, still your prerogative to say no, but is there harm in asking?

edited to clarify... I mean in the case of if it were a reasonably experienced author wanting to write for a closed category, if there were some, not someone who is still ineligible to create restricted quizzes.




Yes, I would have the same thought. The rules are clear and it's not fair for those who read the rules and abide by them.

Closed, to me, is closed. Restricted means there's some leeway in we'll still accept some quizzes, but only if you meet the requirements to submit to a restricted subcategory.


Edited by ladymacb29 (Thu Apr 30 2009 02:35 PM)
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#469415 - Thu Apr 30 2009 03:31 PM Re: Closed Categories
Rowena8482 Offline
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Registered: Mon Mar 12 2007
Posts: 1408
Loc: Hartlepool Durham England UK
Sort of tangential to this, how long should one wait for a reply before sending another message to an editor after getting no response?
(NOT about editing a quiz I must add, about moving one from one category to another)
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#469416 - Thu Apr 30 2009 05:39 PM Re: Closed Categories
Nightmare Offline
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Registered: Wed Jun 06 2001
Posts: 4515
Loc: Texas USA
If you messaged one specific editor and they did not respond within a couple of days, they may have some life priority things going on, thus creating a delay for you. Why not just post it here? That way, all the editors of that particular category can see it, and I'm sure that one of them would respond in maybe a DM to you or here. Hopefully, nobody other than an editor will respond and suggest anything that might lead you in the wrong direction. You wouldn't want to call a Chinese restaurant to order Irish Ziti would you? :-)
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#469417 - Thu Apr 30 2009 06:10 PM Re: Closed Categories
Rowena8482 Offline
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Registered: Mon Mar 12 2007
Posts: 1408
Loc: Hartlepool Durham England UK
Ok, I will!
I did actually post here at the time and ask about quizzes being moved from one category to another, and was advised to message an editor in the category the quiz is currently in (by an editor I should probably add) but haven't had a reply. I looked for the thread earlier, but can't find it, I didn't start a specific thread, it came up in one that was already going so to speak, and I can't for the life of me remember which one.
Anyway, I have a quiz in General: Names: Male Names, but it's not so much about the name as it's about a representation of a particular name - "Tommy" (I won't say his surname as that's one of the questions in the quiz).
Tommy is "the" British soldier through the ages, like an Uncle Sam or John Bull figure, and I wanted to know if it would be possible to move the quiz over to World: Military Matters: U.K. Military.
That's all it was, I sent the message and had actually forgotten until my mind was jogged by something on TV and I realised it had been quite a while with no response, so I thought I'd mention it.
What's "Irish Ziti" by the way? I never heard of it!
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#469418 - Thu Apr 30 2009 06:53 PM Re: Closed Categories
Nightmare Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Wed Jun 06 2001
Posts: 4515
Loc: Texas USA
Quote:

What's "Irish Ziti" by the way? I never heard of it!



I didn't think this was the place to post the recipe (and it took a bit to find it amongst all the papers in the pantry. I messaged it to you instead. :-)
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#469419 - Sat May 02 2009 08:10 AM Re: Closed Categories
skunkee Offline
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Registered: Thu Oct 16 2003
Posts: 10534
Loc: Burlington Ontario Canada  
Rowena I just came back from a week's vacation. We do own a laptop and did have it with us, but I didn't check in every day (the hotel charged $10 for internet access for each 24 hour period).
When we are going to be away, we let other editors know and ask them to look after things for us, but they don't have access to our mail!

Edited to add - I don't know what Irish Ziti is either!


Edited by skunkee (Sat May 02 2009 08:14 AM)
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#469420 - Sat May 02 2009 10:58 AM Re: Closed Categories
Rowena8482 Offline
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Registered: Mon Mar 12 2007
Posts: 1408
Loc: Hartlepool Durham England UK
oo I hope you had a nice time skunkee, um, it wasn't you by the way...(The thing is, I know I sent it to an editor in the category the quiz is now in, but it wasn't an editor I "know" or had had any dealings with previously and I forgot who it was - blushing madly) which is why I didn't send them a follow up PM in the first place. If it had been you I'd have sent you another PM because I'd have remembered it was you if that makes sense. This wasn't last week btw, it was a while ago, it could be as much as 6 weeks but probably more like a month. I expect they'll get back to me at some point, if only because they read this and send me an "OI That was ME" message
(I assume that's what your post was for, that you thought that I thought etc etc (I'll stop..sigh) that I meant you?)
If all else fails I suppose I could go to the categeory, look at all the names, and message all the male eds and ask if it was them...seems a bit 'much' though when it was me that forgot, to bother them all when they won't know what I'm wittering on about.
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#469421 - Sun May 03 2009 06:14 PM Re: Closed Categories
Lones78 Offline
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Registered: Mon Apr 27 2009
Posts: 1482
Loc: Forrestfield Western�Austral...
nightmare
i dont mean to start an argument here and this may not be the place to say this but in regards to your post it was my quiz that started this discussion in the first place.
my quiz WAS complete (from my point of view - and i ws NEVER told it was not complete) and after submitting it you told me that the category was closed. fair enough i didnt realise i had put it in a closed category - i should have checked.
when i first submitted my quiz, another editor changed the category as i obviously hadnt filtered down low enough to the correct category - fair enough.
i posted this discussion topic to ask if anyone knew of categories that had been re-opened or why a category was closed in the first place esp when the category in question was only small (ie 16 pretty ordinary quizes). i was after help and some feedback or ideas. i did inform you that i had done this so that you didnt get a shock coming in here and thinking i was complaining. it also seems that, from reading other posts on here that other editors do sometimes let a quiz in a closed category if it is brilliant. i am by no means saying that my quiz was brilliant but didnt think it hurt to send you a DM asking for more info.
i was certainly NOT trying to undermine you or get around the rules. you have spoken and your word is final in the case of my quiz. and, as you know, it has been deleted.
i certainly dont want you knocking back any future quizes from me because i seem to have started a runaway train on here.

edited - to make a bit more sense


Edited by Lones78 (Sun May 03 2009 10:42 PM)
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#469422 - Sun May 03 2009 06:41 PM Re: Closed Categories
darksplash Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Sat Nov 03 2007
Posts: 505
Loc: Tyrone
Northern Ireland UK 
No matter how hard I try I don't think there is anything I can add to the debate, but I must say I find it very hard to read a piece in which "i" is not capitalized.
OK, now that I have got that grumble out of my way, I am off to bed.
Goodnight Lones
(Goodnight Splash)
Goodnight Rowena
(Goodnight Splash)
Goodnight Skunkee
(Goodnight Splash)
Goodnight Nightmare (if that is not an oxymoron)
(Goodnight Splash)
Goodnight Ladymac
(Goodnight Splash)
Goodnight Agony
(Goodnight Splash).....
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#469423 - Sun May 03 2009 07:50 PM Re: Closed Categories
agony Offline

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Registered: Sat Mar 29 2003
Posts: 14800
Loc: Western Canada
Sleep well, Splash...

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#469424 - Sun May 03 2009 10:09 PM Re: Closed Categories
Lones78 Offline
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Registered: Mon Apr 27 2009
Posts: 1482
Loc: Forrestfield Western�Austral...
goodnight Splash.
Sorry about the uncapitalised i's.
when I get a bit carried away I forget about my grammar & spelling. will try to remember for next time


Edited by Lones78 (Sun May 03 2009 10:13 PM)
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#469425 - Mon May 04 2009 09:40 PM Re: Closed Categories
skunkee Offline
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Registered: Thu Oct 16 2003
Posts: 10534
Loc: Burlington Ontario Canada  
Goodnight Splash!
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