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#517148 - Thu Mar 18 2010 02:39 PM Expert Googlers
Anton Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Sat May 03 2008
Posts: 926
Loc: California USA
Is there something that can be done about people Googling in the expert game? Taking four minutes is unacceptable. To truly be an expert, you must know something about the topic and not what Google can tell you. A time penalty of five points per second will kill any chance of a Googler winning.

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#517149 - Thu Mar 18 2010 02:51 PM Re: Expert Googlers [Re: Anton]
spanishliz Offline
Champion Poster

Registered: Thu Dec 13 2001
Posts: 20341
Loc: Ontario Canada
A time penalty such as you suggest will kill any fun that game has left for me, which isn't very much even with a two second penalty. I don't google, I have a slow computer, yet you would lump me in with the googlers. It is hard enough to compete with the speed demons in Expert the way it is now.

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#517150 - Thu Mar 18 2010 03:00 PM Re: Expert Googlers [Re: spanishliz]
Anton Offline
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Registered: Sat May 03 2008
Posts: 926
Loc: California USA
How about making the expert game like the brain melt? Having an untimed and a timed set. The untimed set would stay like the game is now, and the timed set would have a severe time penalty. Both sets would give an expert win in your profile. An incentive for playing the timed set would be 500 points per win or some kind of bonus.

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#517151 - Thu Mar 18 2010 03:03 PM Re: Expert Googlers [Re: Anton]
guitargoddess Offline
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Registered: Mon Jul 09 2007
Posts: 37013
Loc: Ottawa Ontario Canada         
But then wouldn't a lot of people just choose to play untimed for unfamiliar topics, and still win with times of like 300 seconds?
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#517152 - Thu Mar 18 2010 03:14 PM Re: Expert Googlers [Re: guitargoddess]
Anton Offline
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Registered: Sat May 03 2008
Posts: 926
Loc: California USA
Yes, but people who are familiar to those topics would win. They would only have to look up a couple answers (if any at all), whereas someone unfamiliar to the topic would have to look up the majority of the answers.

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#517153 - Thu Mar 18 2010 03:35 PM Re: Expert Googlers [Re: Anton]
spanishliz Offline
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Registered: Thu Dec 13 2001
Posts: 20341
Loc: Ontario Canada
Now that's an idea I like, Anton. I could live with that

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#517154 - Thu Mar 18 2010 03:42 PM Re: Expert Googlers [Re: spanishliz]
guitargoddess Offline
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Registered: Mon Jul 09 2007
Posts: 37013
Loc: Ottawa Ontario Canada         
But... that's true of the situation right now. A Googler isn't going to win if there's someone who is familiar with the category, you don't need to separate it into timed/untimed for that... And then on the timed side you could have people winning with like only 8 answers right simply because they can breeze through 15 questions in 25 seconds.
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#517155 - Thu Mar 18 2010 04:07 PM Re: Expert Googlers [Re: guitargoddess]
Terry Offline

Head Honcho

Registered: Wed Dec 31 1969
Posts: 18965
Loc: USA
Completely agree with GG. It is fairly well balanced as is IMO.

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#517156 - Thu Mar 18 2010 05:19 PM Re: Expert Googlers [Re: guitargoddess]
Anton Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Sat May 03 2008
Posts: 926
Loc: California USA
Quote:

But... that's true of the situation right now. A Googler isn't going to win if there's someone who is familiar with the category, you don't need to separate it into timed/untimed for that... And then on the timed side you could have people winning with like only 8 answers right simply because they can breeze through 15 questions in 25 seconds.




The top two scores in the Metallica topic a couple hours ago were Googlers. I am familiar with that topic and was only 5th or 6th when I played. I guarantee you if they hadn't Googled, they wouldn't be top two. I wouldn't have won, but there was at least one person ahead of me that didn't Google who would have won.

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#517157 - Thu Mar 18 2010 05:22 PM Re: Expert Googlers [Re: Anton]
nasty_liar Offline
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Registered: Sun Oct 05 2008
Posts: 237
Loc: Sheffield Yorkshire England UK
I think it's easy to forget that for some of us a topic that we are very good at takes longer. I often find myself taking 150-200 seconds (so roughly 3 minutes) racking my brains about the answers of something that I know is in there somewhere. I was doing that on the Star Wars books category earlier, a category that I would reckon myself to be good at. To penalise one so heavily for thinking about it seems overly harsh.

I find it frustrating that there are so many players that seem to be able to churn out a 15/15 in 50 seconds or so in a category that I consider myself expert in but I have to think about the answers to get them all right. There's no point complaining about it, it's part of the game. As is people taking longer getting more right.

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#517158 - Thu Mar 18 2010 05:28 PM Re: Expert Googlers [Re: Anton]
guitargoddess Offline
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Registered: Mon Jul 09 2007
Posts: 37013
Loc: Ottawa Ontario Canada         
Quote:

Quote:

But... that's true of the situation right now. A Googler isn't going to win if there's someone who is familiar with the category, you don't need to separate it into timed/untimed for that... And then on the timed side you could have people winning with like only 8 answers right simply because they can breeze through 15 questions in 25 seconds.




The top two scores in the Metallica topic a couple hours ago were Googlers. I am familiar with that topic and was only 5th or 6th when I played. I guarantee you if they hadn't Googled, they wouldn't be top two. I wouldn't have won, but there was at least one person ahead of me that didn't Google who would have won.




Right... but the exact same thing would have happened if it had been untimed. So dividing it into timed and untimed wouldn't really make a difference, because someone can just choose to play untimed if they're going to Google.
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#517159 - Thu Mar 18 2010 06:03 PM Re: Expert Googlers [Re: guitargoddess]
mehaul Offline
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Registered: Wed Feb 03 2010
Posts: 6122
Loc: Florida USA
I do not see it considered here and I would like to mix the issue of poor vision into the discussion.
My vision is poor. I know some topics very well but when the quiz results post, I am often down in the standings below some who have gotten fewer correct. That lower rank is not due to Google time but to difficulty in reading time.
But I still take timed tests because in several of the areas, avoiding the timed tests and only doing untimed hurts my team's score. No time, no team points (especially Mind melt) So even if I know I'm not going to be in first place, I play the timed version.
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Dreams allow escape from the passage of Time.

The ultimate activity is the Dream.

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#517160 - Thu Mar 18 2010 06:07 PM Re: Expert Googlers [Re: guitargoddess]
Prison Offline
Explorer

Registered: Thu Dec 25 2008
Posts: 63
Loc: Florida USA
I know this might make me look like a hypocrite for saying this since I've googled to win a bunch of titles in the past but I think what needs to happen is a time penalty kicking in after a set time like in Gold Member Madness. What is it in there, 180? If so, that's a good number. (Actually, it might need to be a lot lower since each second is 2 points deducted, like 140)

Some people have googled to win a good 100 titles, which they probably didn't even need since they already have Jack of All Trades.

@nasty_liar: Yeah, I've seen questions that were comprised of 3 paragraphs and without identing. Those need to be purged.

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#517161 - Thu Mar 18 2010 06:13 PM Re: Expert Googlers [Re: Prison]
Terry Offline

Head Honcho

Registered: Wed Dec 31 1969
Posts: 18965
Loc: USA
Hmm isn't the penalty time already "graduated" in there, or is it simple 2 pts per second?

If so, then yeah, a system like that used in GMM is probably best.

Also, I can pretty easily filter out long questions.

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#517162 - Thu Mar 18 2010 06:17 PM Re: Expert Googlers [Re: Terry]
Prison Offline
Explorer

Registered: Thu Dec 25 2008
Posts: 63
Loc: Florida USA
No, it's only 2 points/sec.

If the 2 point penalty is held onto then a good time for something like 10 point penalties will be around 140-160 seconds.


Edited by Prison (Thu Mar 18 2010 06:18 PM)

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#517163 - Thu Mar 18 2010 06:21 PM Re: Expert Googlers [Re: Prison]
MotherGoose Offline
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Registered: Mon Apr 22 2002
Posts: 4517
Loc: Western Australia
Quote:

The top two scores in the Metallica topic a couple hours ago were Googlers. I am familiar with that topic and was only 5th or 6th when I played. I guarantee you if they hadn't Googled, they wouldn't be top two. I wouldn't have won, but there was at least one person ahead of me that didn't Google who would have won.





Now how on earth could you possibly know that?

Do you know these people or are you just speculating?
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#517164 - Thu Mar 18 2010 06:36 PM Re: Expert Googlers [Re: MotherGoose]
guitargoddess Offline
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Registered: Mon Jul 09 2007
Posts: 37013
Loc: Ottawa Ontario Canada         
MG, it's kind of obvious when people who normally get 15/15 in less than 40 seconds show up in "harder" categories with 15/15 in 258 seconds. Computer/internet connection failure is always possible of course, but it's a little coincedental when it ONLY happens on the more specific or obscure categories and never in the ones where it's basically just a speed contest.
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#517165 - Thu Mar 18 2010 06:44 PM Re: Expert Googlers [Re: MotherGoose]
agony Offline

Administrator

Registered: Sat Mar 29 2003
Posts: 12670
Loc: Western Canada
I've beat Googlers in categories I know, so there *is* a time penalty that helps you, if you are reasonably quick yourself. I've also considered Googling myself, when I see top score as something like 15/15 in 292 seconds. I've never done it, because I want to get Jack of All Trades all on my own without researching, but I *could*. And so could you.

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#517166 - Thu Mar 18 2010 06:44 PM Re: Expert Googlers [Re: guitargoddess]
mehaul Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Wed Feb 03 2010
Posts: 6122
Loc: Florida USA
Prison,
I am lucky if I can finish any quiz in less than 120 secs. And you want to start add er subtracting more points from my score?
There should be some browser signatures that can be recognized to assess penalties and not the time it takes to read ten, fifteen, twenty or twenty-five questions.
_________________________
If you aren't seeing Heaven while you dream, you're doing something wrong.
Dreams allow escape from the passage of Time.

The ultimate activity is the Dream.

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#517167 - Thu Mar 18 2010 06:51 PM Re: Expert Googlers [Re: mehaul]
Prison Offline
Explorer

Registered: Thu Dec 25 2008
Posts: 63
Loc: Florida USA
I was hesitant to think about a score destroying penalty enforced after what appeared to be a short time. However, what could happen is that the Expert game could follow the GMM time penalty and remove the old 2 pt/sec one.

Long questions which eat up the clock can be purged so that's knocking off several seconds.

I'm not sure whether a "browser signature" can be easily implemented, if at all. Besides, what could determine a person's placement into this category? Taking more than a certain # of seconds?

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#517168 - Thu Mar 18 2010 06:53 PM Re: Expert Googlers [Re: Prison]
BxBarracuda Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Wed Sep 05 2007
Posts: 5117
Loc: Bronx
New York USA     
I don't google when taking timed quizes, I am not a fan of googling, I avoid the games, or hourly expert categories, where googling seems to be prevalent.

There is enough on the site to enjoy or challenge myself about how much I really know, that I don't need to play every game, every hour, or every day on the site.

For some of the obscure expert categories there is another way to score perfect, that would be to see the topic early and then take all the quizzes in that category and hope you remmeber them all when you take the quiz.

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#517169 - Thu Mar 18 2010 07:17 PM Re: Expert Googlers [Re: BxBarracuda]
mehaul Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Wed Feb 03 2010
Posts: 6122
Loc: Florida USA
Does one really even have to Google for some answers?
Couldn't I open two Fun Trivia windows and have one set to surf the FT encyclopedia? All the questions' answers are there, aren't they?
_________________________
If you aren't seeing Heaven while you dream, you're doing something wrong.
Dreams allow escape from the passage of Time.

The ultimate activity is the Dream.

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#517170 - Thu Mar 18 2010 07:19 PM Re: Expert Googlers [Re: BxBarracuda]
Terry Offline

Head Honcho

Registered: Wed Dec 31 1969
Posts: 18965
Loc: USA
I take a look at today's (extremely obscure to most people) Team Heroes, and see some scores like this:

1. Prison Florida, USA classicalmusic/mensan 15 190 1310

2. piet Netherlands classicalmusic/mensan 15 268 1232

I'm assuming these were googled?

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#517171 - Thu Mar 18 2010 07:25 PM Re: Expert Googlers [Re: Terry]
Prison Offline
Explorer

Registered: Thu Dec 25 2008
Posts: 63
Loc: Florida USA
Indeed. Gotta help my team.

In this case, we're not shutting anyone else out from a title or anything. However, if you feel a similar time penalty needs to be placed I won't protest.


Edited by Prison (Thu Mar 18 2010 07:34 PM)

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#517172 - Thu Mar 18 2010 07:29 PM Re: Expert Googlers [Re: Prison]
Terry Offline

Head Honcho

Registered: Wed Dec 31 1969
Posts: 18965
Loc: USA
Ok, next hour I'm making the following changes to expert:

- graduated time penalty like GMM. Very little penalty for under 120 seconds. Anything over that and the penalty increases at a steeper rate. By 200 seconds it should be entirely prohibitive.

- questions are limited to 2-3 lines.

We'll see how it goes. If it works well for Expert, we'll do the same thing with Team Heroes, which is effectively the same game.


Edited by Terry (Thu Mar 18 2010 07:44 PM)

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