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#658376 - Mon Oct 03 2011 11:17 PM Re: Mind Melt - Content Issues [Re: Jakeroo]
lorance79 Offline
Explorer

Registered: Sun Oct 03 2010
Posts: 69
Loc: Canberra A.C.T. Australia     
Today's MM had two terms with identical definitions:

sense impression means "an unelaborated elementary awareness of stimulation"
sense datum means "an unelaborated elementary awareness of stimulation"


Naturally I picked the 'wrong' pair &_&

That kept me from winning the set. Luckily I have all the MM badges except for the Mastery (which I'm currently slogging away at) so the loss of 14 melting points won't hurt in the long run.


Edited by lorance79 (Mon Oct 03 2011 11:19 PM)

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#658377 - Mon Oct 03 2011 11:22 PM Re: Mind Melt - Content Issues [Re: lorance79]
looney_tunes Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Tue Jan 20 2009
Posts: 2926
Loc: Briar Hill Victoria Australia 
The matching process depends not just on the simple definition provided, but on the connotations of the term, and the way you would use it. Without knowing what you were matching with, I cannot offer any suggestion as to how to decide how they match. It is usually possible to explain why they match the way they do in the game. It sems that most players who make the correct pairings don't read the definitions carefully, or at least don't care that the two definitions appear identical - if they worked it out, they know that the terms are not in fact identical.
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#658378 - Mon Oct 03 2011 11:29 PM Re: Mind Melt - Content Issues [Re: looney_tunes]
lorance79 Offline
Explorer

Registered: Sun Oct 03 2010
Posts: 69
Loc: Canberra A.C.T. Australia     
OK, here's the finer detail:

synesthesia is related to sense impression

You said: sense datum

synesthesia means "a sensation that normally occurs in one sense modality occurs when another modality is stimulated"
sense impression means "an unelaborated elementary awareness of stimulation"

=================================

taste is related to sense datum

You said: sense impression

taste means "the sensation that results when taste buds in the tongue and throat convey information about the chemical composition of a soluble stimulus"
sense datum means "an unelaborated elementary awareness of stimulation"

================================

I know there are often cases where people quibble about terms that are *fairly* similar, but the nuance of the matching pairs provides some ability to distinguish between them. But word-for-word identical definitions?

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#658384 - Tue Oct 04 2011 12:35 AM Re: Mind Melt - Content Issues [Re: lorance79]
looney_tunes Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Tue Jan 20 2009
Posts: 2926
Loc: Briar Hill Victoria Australia 
Yes, often word for word identical definitions. Read through this lengthy thread to see! The definitions are often woefully inadequate in conveying the precise sense in which the word is being used. But it is not practical to offer all the possible definitions to provide enough evidence to justify a particular matching.

Synesthesia describes a condition, in which one sensory input produces the sensation of a different sensory input, so it matches rather nicely with sense impression; taste, on the other hand, is something more precisely categorisable and quantifiable (sweet, sour, salt, bitter) and so would match in my mind with the sense datum.

This game draws on an off-site source, so presumably cannot be adjusted to improve the definitions. But if you take the time to chase down alternative definitions and examples of usage, you can almost always work out why they match the way they do.
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#660741 - Thu Oct 13 2011 09:00 AM Re: Mind Melt - Content Issues [Re: looney_tunes]
ssabreman Offline
Prolific

Registered: Wed Nov 03 2010
Posts: 1589
Loc: K-W Ontario Canada
'up' is not the opposite of 'down' - nonsense
get up the stairs; get down the stairs
'raise' doesn't match either of the choices very well

The opposite of get down is raise
You said: get up

get down means "move something or somebody to a lower position"
raise means "raise from a lower to a higher position"

The opposite of crawl in is get up
You said: raise

crawl in means "go to bed in order to sleep"
get up means "get up and out of bed"

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#660836 - Thu Oct 13 2011 03:01 PM Re: Mind Melt - Content Issues [Re: ssabreman]
spanishliz Offline
Star Poster

Registered: Thu Dec 13 2001
Posts: 18505
Loc: Ontario Canada
Sorry, but "get down" and "get up" are definitely not exact opposites of one another. That's not the same as saying that "down" and "up" are not opposites.

The explanations as given are what I would have chosen, given those four options to match.

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#660954 - Thu Oct 13 2011 06:38 PM Re: Mind Melt - Content Issues [Re: spanishliz]
mehaul Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Wed Feb 03 2010
Posts: 4970
Loc: Florida USA
Get down in that get up? Are you kidding? Get down, get down (brass riffs) Jungle Boogiie, (riff) Jungle Boogie (Thanks to Kool and the Gang).
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"...Yesterday's at least a mile back."
Dale Peters 'Dreaming in the Country' James Gang (1971)

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#664189 - Sat Oct 29 2011 09:16 AM Re: Mind Melt - Content Issues [Re: mehaul]
Picard25 Offline
Participant

Registered: Sat Oct 29 2011
Posts: 15
Loc: Austria
I don't know if this has been reported yet, but today I got these relations:

visualiser is related to perceiver

You said: observer

visualiser means "one whose prevailing mental imagery is visual"
perceiver means "a person who becomes aware (of things or events) through the senses

hearer is related to observer

You said: perceiver

hearer means "someone who listens attentively"
observer means "a person who becomes aware (of things or events) through the senses"


"Perceiver" and "observer" share the identical definition so I picked the combination which seemed more logical to me, the wrong one ;), but then again English isn't my native language.

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#664204 - Sat Oct 29 2011 11:35 AM Re: Mind Melt - Content Issues [Re: Picard25]
reeshy Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Tue Aug 11 2009
Posts: 741
Loc: Glasgow Scotland UK           
Actually, I would put them the other way around. To me, "observe" is more to do with seeing, while "perceive" can be of any sense. I don't think they should be in the same set though, as no pairing really stands out as correct over the others.
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#664241 - Sat Oct 29 2011 04:21 PM Re: Mind Melt - Content Issues [Re: reeshy]
shuehorn Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Tue Jul 04 2006
Posts: 2991
Loc: Lawrenceville Georgia USA     
Reeshy, I think you would have paired them the same as Picard25, with observer going with visualizer (both being visual) and hearer with perceiver (other senses), at least if I've read Picard's post correctly. I know that's how I would have paired them as well. And I agree with you that they are mispaired and definitely too close to be in the same set.
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#664405 - Sun Oct 30 2011 09:57 AM Re: Mind Melt - Content Issues [Re: shuehorn]
reeshy Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Tue Aug 11 2009
Posts: 741
Loc: Glasgow Scotland UK           
Yes, Sue, I agree with Picard25. Bad wording on my part: I meant "actually I'd pair them the other way around from the game". Sorry about that! smile
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#664465 - Sun Oct 30 2011 02:44 PM Re: Mind Melt - Content Issues [Re: reeshy]
Picard25 Offline
Participant

Registered: Sat Oct 29 2011
Posts: 15
Loc: Austria
Thanks Sue and reeshy, it was also more logical for me to pair the terms like you two did, but obviously the system doesn't share this opinion. smilee

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#668557 - Wed Nov 16 2011 06:18 PM Re: Mind Melt - Content Issues [Re: DireWolf74]
WesleyCrusher Offline

Administrator

Registered: Thu Sep 04 2008
Posts: 3650
Loc: Germany
Not an actual issue, but a rather "lighthearted" observation:

Just how likely is it that, out of my ten choices for "opposites", four are "lighted", "lightly", "lighten" and "enlightening" ?

Set of the century smile
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#668558 - Wed Nov 16 2011 07:01 PM Re: Mind Melt - Content Issues [Re: WesleyCrusher]
ssabreman Offline
Prolific

Registered: Wed Nov 03 2010
Posts: 1589
Loc: K-W Ontario Canada
Yes, I was in 'your' set and surprisingly got all of those correct, but messed up royally in the 3rd section.

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#669329 - Sat Nov 19 2011 10:31 PM Re: Mind Melt - Content Issues [Re: ssabreman]
Starlord Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Sat Apr 26 2008
Posts: 757
Loc: Cornwall UK
Another bad pair of definitions!

accessory vertebral vein means "a vein that accompanies the vertebral vein but passes through the foramen of the transverse process of the 7th cervical vertebra and empties into the brachiocephalic vein"
venous blood vessel means "a blood vessel that carries blood from the capillaries toward the heart"

umbilical vein means "a vein in the umbilical cord"
vena means "a blood vessel that carries blood from the capillaries toward the heart"

It is the reason I have given up on the monthly badge and why once I get 50,000 points this is a game I will be quitting.

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#669439 - Sun Nov 20 2011 02:12 PM Re: Mind Melt - Content Issues [Re: Starlord]
ssabreman Offline
Prolific

Registered: Wed Nov 03 2010
Posts: 1589
Loc: K-W Ontario Canada
Two possessives with double apostrophes.

lexicon means "a language [user''s] knowledge of words"
lese majesty means "a crime that undermines the [offender''s] government"

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#670818 - Mon Nov 28 2011 09:32 AM Re: Mind Melt - Content Issues [Re: ssabreman]
Buddy1 Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Wed Oct 15 2008
Posts: 687
Loc: Arkansas USA
machinist is related to artisan

machinist means "a craftsman skilled in operating machine tools"
artisan means "a skilled worker who practices some trade or handicraft"


coachbuilder is related to journeyman
You said: artisan

coachbuilder means "a craftsman who makes the bodies of motor vehicles"
journeyman means "a skilled worker who practices some trade or handicraft"


Artisan and journeyman have the same definition, so I'm not sure how to (or if we can) distinguish between them.

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#671086 - Wed Nov 30 2011 04:57 PM Re: Mind Melt - Content Issues [Re: Buddy1]
WesleyCrusher Offline

Administrator

Registered: Thu Sep 04 2008
Posts: 3650
Loc: Germany
Hit another absolutely interchangeable pair. I got lucky this time...

4. surgical operation
5. surgical procedure

chemosurgery best fits with #
electrosurgery best fits with #

Explanations given:

chemosurgery means "use of chemical to destroy diseased or malignant tissue"
surgical operation means "a medical procedure involving an incision with instruments"

electrosurgery means "surgery performed with electrical devices (as in electrocautery)"
surgical procedure means "a medical procedure involving an incision with instruments"



Edited by WesleyCrusher (Wed Nov 30 2011 04:58 PM)
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#671093 - Wed Nov 30 2011 05:35 PM Re: Mind Melt - Content Issues [Re: WesleyCrusher]
ArlingtonVA Offline
Forum Adept

Registered: Fri Feb 06 2009
Posts: 123
Loc: Virginia USA
I just got the two surgeries one as well! And I guessed wrong. No big deal; kind of funny. Of course, if I was going for the badge and this was the last day of the month I might feel differently. wink

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#671890 - Tue Dec 06 2011 01:01 PM Re: Mind Melt - Content Issues [Re: ArlingtonVA]
JanIQ Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Thu Jul 09 2009
Posts: 573
Loc: Antwerp
Belgium
***

dado means "provide with a dado"


***

That's the explanation! Word is just a word.
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#671979 - Tue Dec 06 2011 09:51 PM Re: Mind Melt - Content Issues [Re: JanIQ]
mehaul Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Wed Feb 03 2010
Posts: 4970
Loc: Florida USA
It goes without saying: _________________!
_________________________
"...Tomorrow's come a long way to help you."
Tim Davis 'Your Saving Grace' Steve Miller Band (1969)
"...Yesterday's at least a mile back."
Dale Peters 'Dreaming in the Country' James Gang (1971)

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#673360 - Wed Dec 14 2011 08:58 AM Re: Mind Melt - Content Issues [Re: mehaul]
Buddy1 Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Wed Oct 15 2008
Posts: 687
Loc: Arkansas USA
a**-kisser is related to sycophant

I don't think a phrase that consists of an inappropriate word should be on the list of possible choices.

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#675299 - Sat Dec 24 2011 06:54 AM Re: Mind Melt - Content Issues [Re: Buddy1]
Julia103 Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Thu May 15 2003
Posts: 654
Loc: Baltimore Maryland USA       
Yesterday's game had two answers which are both defined as "a particular complex anatomical structure". I guessed wrong on which to use. Can someone explain the distinction?

cytoskeleton is related to complex body part
cytoskeleton means "a microscopic network of actin filaments and microtubules in the cytoplasm of many living cells that gives the cell shape and coherence"
complex body part means "a particular complex anatomical structure"

infundibulum is related to anatomical structure
infundibulum means "any of various funnel-shaped parts of the body (but especially the hypophyseal stalk)"
anatomical structure means "a particular complex anatomical structure"

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#675324 - Sat Dec 24 2011 10:58 AM Re: Mind Melt - Content Issues [Re: Julia103]
reeshy Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Tue Aug 11 2009
Posts: 741
Loc: Glasgow Scotland UK           
I think they should not be in the same set as technically they are interchangeable. The only possible distinction I would make is that the cytoskeleton is a system of fibers rather than an individual structure, thus agreeing with the matches the game used, but still, either descriptor works well enough for both items.
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#676483 - Thu Dec 29 2011 10:31 PM Re: Mind Melt - Content Issues [Re: reeshy]
abechstein Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Apr 19 2009
Posts: 414
Loc: Athens Georgia USA            
It seems to me that these pairs are equally correct the other way around (and I would argue a better match):
------

bell is related to attach

You said: artefact

bell means "attach a bell to"
attach means "cause to be attached"

electroplate is related to artefact

You said: attach

electroplate means "any artifact that has been plated with a thin coat of metal by electrolysis"
artefact means "a man-made object taken as a whole"

------

While "bell" as a verb can appear, I have never heard or seen "electroplate" as a noun. I'm not denying the possibility that this form exists, but, given its rarity, I would submit that "electroplate" is a much better match with "attach", as the process of electroplating involves attaching a metal to an object. "Bell" and "artefact" can easily be matched, as a bell certainly is "a man-made object taken as a whole". I guess I can see the match as given, but I think it's a much better match the other way around.


Edited by abechstein (Thu Dec 29 2011 10:32 PM)

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