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#593691 - Wed Feb 09 2011 02:54 PM What happened to rooves?
Copago Offline
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When I was a girl (and I walked barefoot to school no matter the weather wink ) I was taught that the plural of roof was rooves.
While going through some of my son's school work yesterday there was this rule:

Change F to v for words ending in f or fe.
For example: loaf/loaves.
Some exceptions are roofs, chiefs and hoofs.


When did this happen?

Actually, I would have done 'hooves' as well. Now I'm more confused. I sometimes wonder how they can let untrained people teach their kids. LOL crazy




Edited by Copago (Wed Feb 09 2011 02:54 PM)

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#593692 - Wed Feb 09 2011 02:56 PM Re: What happened to rooves? [Re: Copago]
reeshy Offline
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I'm 20, and have never heard "rooves", but I'd definitely use "hooves" and not "hoofs"!
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#593700 - Wed Feb 09 2011 03:37 PM Re: What happened to rooves? [Re: reeshy]
TabbyTom Offline
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Dictionaries give both hoofs and hooves for the plural of hoof, but I can't find a dictionary that gives rooves. Indeed, I seem to remember teachers stigmatizing rooves as wrong when I was a kid. Maybe it's a dialectal thing.

I think there are other exceptions besides those in Conor's book. For example, the plural of proof is certainly proofs, and barristers get briefs from instructing solicitors.
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#593726 - Wed Feb 09 2011 05:38 PM Re: What happened to rooves? [Re: TabbyTom]
Copago Offline
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eek I've been stigmatised?? wink

To stop myself thinking I was making it up I got onto google and found this:

Quote:


1. The plural of roof is roofs or rooves. "Rooves" is an older form of the word and rarely used these days. Australian children right up to the 1980s, for example, were brought up with the word "rooves" rather than roofs, and it is still an accepted form in Australia today (though uncommon). Also, despite New Zealand English developing from UK English, it should be noted that in NZ, the plural of roof is rooves, in both its written and spoken form.

2. The accepted plural is "roofs". The Oxford English Dictionary lists "rooves" as an alternate, one of several outdated spellings used in the UK, and in New England as late as the 19th century.


Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_plural_form_of_roof_-_roofs_or_rooves#ixzz1DVYEWfaK


So now I'm stigmatised AND uncommon! LOL

I must look into hooves .. perhaps that's one of those English/American ones, Reeshy?

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#593766 - Wed Feb 09 2011 06:30 PM Re: What happened to rooves? [Re: Copago]
dg_dave Offline
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Registered: Sun Oct 05 2003
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Another word that is like that is "safe" to make "safes," not "saves."

I saw something that Australian children into the 1980s used "rooves," which is acceptable, but not commonly used.

From answers.com:
Quote:

1. The plural of roof is roofs or rooves. "Rooves" is an older form of the word and rarely used these days. Australian children right up to the 1980s, for example, were brought up with the word "rooves" rather than roofs, and it is still an accepted form in Australia today (though uncommon).
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#593780 - Wed Feb 09 2011 07:13 PM Re: What happened to rooves? [Re: dg_dave]
mehaul Offline
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Life to lives seems reasonable but what then are we to do with lifes' little wonders?

Wife to wives also seems reasonable but no man ever dare go plural on that one.

Working backwards, Is the singular of hives supposed to have been hife all these years? And should I add only chife to my cream cheese? I'd certainly become nauseated if upon the ocean blue I was rocked by a single wafe.


Edit for PS: I grew up in New England in the 50s and we used the term rooves even then. Certain isolated rural areas of New England countryside still used the term, except we do not pahk our cahs on the rooves anymore (proved too damaging to the fellahs inside the cah and buildin.)


Edited by mehaul (Wed Feb 09 2011 07:45 PM)
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#594016 - Thu Feb 10 2011 01:11 PM Re: What happened to rooves? [Re: Copago]
reeshy Offline
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Originally Posted By: Copago
I must look into hooves .. perhaps that's one of those English/American ones, Reeshy?


I've never seen "hoofs" used in British English (I'm Scottish), but it's not as weird as "rooves"! English is very strange with plurals, haha!
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#594151 - Thu Feb 10 2011 06:22 PM Re: What happened to rooves? [Re: reeshy]
satguru Offline
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I thought it was just me, I captioned some photos with rooves a few years ago and got picked up on it although I'd used it all my life. We still say it like that and wonder why they changed it considering it followed a standard rule? Now I know I wasn't wrong as originally thought I'm going back to the old way, and would recommend we all do as language follows common usage.
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#594235 - Fri Feb 11 2011 05:52 AM Re: What happened to rooves? [Re: satguru]
dg_dave Offline
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Looks like we have our own "beliefs" (oops..."believes") of the correct word. wink
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#594466 - Fri Feb 11 2011 06:31 PM Re: What happened to rooves? [Re: dg_dave]
satguru Offline
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The exception that proofs the rule??
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#594573 - Sat Feb 12 2011 07:56 AM Re: What happened to rooves? [Re: satguru]
mehaul Offline
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I will go to my graf (singular of graves) disagreeing with this general guideline (not rule since there are exceptions). Maybe the openings in my sief (singular of sieves) aeren't large enough to allow passage of such a too broad restriction. Maybe the Cheves and Chieves (Chef and Chief plurals iaw this rule) should go to their respective kitchens and tepees to come up with a new useless guideline (I before e except after c is the most rediculous of them all. There are more exceptions than words that follow that one)

Did some one say neckerchieves? Gusundtiedt!
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"...Yesterday's at least a mile back."
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#594586 - Sat Feb 12 2011 09:03 AM Re: What happened to rooves? [Re: mehaul]
reeshy Offline
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English is not a very technical language. As mehaul says, there are probably more exceptions than words that follow rules. English is one of the most irregular languages I've had experience of (probably THE most irregular actually), so there are always going to be oddities. I think only Esperanto can be learned without irregularities!
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#594789 - Sat Feb 12 2011 07:36 PM Re: What happened to rooves? [Re: reeshy]
MotherGoose Offline
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It's a wonder to me that any of us ever learns English at all!
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#595347 - Mon Feb 14 2011 12:58 PM Re: What happened to rooves? [Re: MotherGoose]
Santana2002 Offline
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I too find hooves perfectly acceptable, but find rooves looks peculiar. I only remember seeing it as roofs in the plural form.
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#596403 - Thu Feb 17 2011 07:37 AM Re: What happened to rooves? [Re: mehaul]
Snowman Offline
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Originally Posted By: mehaul
Life to lives seems reasonable but what then are we to do with lifes' little wonders?


Move the apostrophe slightly to the left perhaps? wink
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#596413 - Thu Feb 17 2011 08:57 AM Re: What happened to rooves? [Re: Snowman]
mehaul Offline
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Registered: Wed Feb 03 2010
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No, I meant the possessive of lifes plural, But if you want it to be French, okay: L'ifes.
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"...Yesterday's at least a mile back."
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#635925 - Wed Jun 22 2011 12:43 AM Re: What happened to rooves? [Re: satguru]
lindamarie23 Offline
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Registered: Tue Jul 03 2007
Posts: 4
Loc: British Columbia Canada       
In Canada we say "rooves" but write "roofs". Silly!

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#636386 - Thu Jun 23 2011 08:43 PM Re: What happened to rooves? [Re: lindamarie23]
Jakeroo Offline
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Registered: Sat Aug 30 2008
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I'm Canadian and when I was in elementary school (too many moons ago to count), we spelled it as "rooves" and pronounced it with the long ooooo sound, which may be one example of why so many non-Canadians used to think the majority of us say "ooot and aboot" instead of "out and about". Americans spelled it as "roofs" and prounounced it as something similar to "ruwffs" - like the "woof" sound a dog might make (no disparagement intended, btw). "Roofs" is now an acceptable spelling here, but as lindamarie has stated, we still don't pronounce it as if we were saying "hoofs".

In most "circles" here (including the Arctic one lol), "hooves" is a noun and refers to more than one animal foot. "Hoofs" is sort of like a "vernacular verb" and refers to movement, such as dancing, or as in "he doesn't have a car, so he hoofs it to work".

Sometimes I blame the global popularity of Microsoft products for certain spellings "going away". I work in a GOVERNMENT office and I do not have the ability to change my spell-checker dictionary. For reasons unfathomable to me, our default (which can only be changed by some IT admin guy) is U.S. English (as if any American would be reading a single one of our communications lol).

These days the so-called "rules" seem to be changed at will. Words are added and removed from dictionaries every year. What gives "them" the right to remove ANY word?? If it existed at all, it's still a WORD, whether it is used in everyday speech "on the street" or not. Do they really think that by putting in new "cool buzzwords" and deleting perfectly good ones that have been in use for centuries, that dictionaries will suddenly become popular best sellers that people read for entertainment??? Who ARE these people - and who put the current lot "in charge" anyway? I must have missed the memo...

(helplessly giggling now).


Edited by Jakeroo (Thu Jun 23 2011 08:58 PM)
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#636414 - Thu Jun 23 2011 11:16 PM Re: What happened to rooves? [Re: Jakeroo]
mehaul Offline
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Of course, must be the word Thiefs (Thieves? take your pick) making off with all our good words!
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"...Tomorrow's come a long way to help you."
Tim Davis 'Your Saving Grace' Steve Miller Band (1969)
"...Yesterday's at least a mile back."
Dale Peters 'Dreaming in the Country' James Gang (1971)

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#685536 - Tue Jan 31 2012 04:11 AM Re: What happened to rooves? [Re: mehaul]
sisterseagull Offline
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Registered: Tue Aug 16 2011
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Loc: Torquay Devon England UK      
I was taught and still use the word 'rooves'

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#779622 - Sat Mar 17 2012 09:03 PM Re: What happened to rooves? [Re: sisterseagull]
sportsherald Offline
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Registered: Sat Feb 18 2012
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Loc: Canada
I am a Canadian that pronounces the plural of roof as rooves, but it does look funny to me to spell it that way (I have a general preference for British English). In my government office, I can select "Canadian English" for spell check, which is then displayed as "English (UK)." I remember protesting as a child that it should be "Snow White and the Seven Dwarves."

In Canada, we have the famous hockey team, the Toronto Maple Leafs- which should, in my mind, be the Maple Leaves, but apparently they were named after a Maple Leaf Regiment that had been nicknamed the Maple Leafs... They were called the St. Patricks (or St. Pats) before that, and there was just one of him.

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#779944 - Mon Mar 19 2012 06:10 AM Re: What happened to rooves? [Re: sportsherald]
LeoDaVinci Offline
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Originally Posted By: reeshy
probably THE most irregular actually

You've never tried to learn Russian, have you?!

I was in school in Canada in the 80s, but was taught that roof --> roofs. I've never noticed anyone saying "rooves" either, but, I do live in Toronto, a city heavily influenced by the large immigrant population.
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#780029 - Mon Mar 19 2012 02:32 PM Re: What happened to rooves? [Re: LeoDaVinci]
reeshy Offline
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Originally Posted By: LeoDaVinci
Originally Posted By: reeshy
probably THE most irregular actually

You've never tried to learn Russian, have you?!


Ah, I have, and stand corrected. laugh Alas, my Russian never got very far and now I have little time to go back to it, unfortunately.
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#780048 - Mon Mar 19 2012 03:20 PM Re: What happened to rooves? [Re: reeshy]
Copago Offline
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Registered: Tue May 15 2001
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I think it's funny that the few of us who did or do use 'rooves' are spread so far and wide!

On the news just now they're talking about a large storm and the youngish weather man is saying "rooves" .... got me wondering how he would spell it!

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#780186 - Tue Mar 20 2012 10:49 AM Re: What happened to rooves? [Re: Copago]
AlexxSchneider Offline
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Registered: Fri Jun 26 2009
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A friend of mine from Kent still uses "rooves", at least in his writing; I don't know if I've ever heard him say it!
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