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#688976 - Sat Feb 11 2012 07:41 AM Fill Me In Game - Issues
highfells Offline
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Registered: Sat Dec 15 2007
Posts: 338
Loc: Gerrard's Ghyll Cumbria UK
Having recently played a lot of this game in pursuit of the Achievement Badge (took me several weeks to type fast enough!), I have noticed some inconsistencies in the Hints given for answers.

There are many questions where the answer hint is given as TWO WORDS when one word will also be accepted as correct. These answers are mainly names of people, where surname only is also accepted as correct even when the hint indicates two words.

There are also questions where the hint really does mean two words are required.

Another anomaly is where the answer is one of the US state names: some questions accept the 2-letter abbreviation as a correct answer and some don't. Again, the given hints are sometimes inconsistent.

What would be the best way to address these inconsistencies? Should a correction note be sent about the answer? Or about the hint?

Which way should the harmonisation go? Towards broadening the acceptable answers? Or towards stricter interpretation?
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#688985 - Sat Feb 11 2012 09:22 AM Re: Fill Me In Game - Issues [Re: highfells]
reeshy Offline
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Registered: Tue Aug 11 2009
Posts: 741
Loc: Glasgow Scotland UK           
My advice is to play it safe and always go with the hint. If you don't know for sure that only surname will be accepted (though it nearly always is), write the full name. Same goes for states. If it doesn't imply anywhere that the abbreviation will be accepted, write out the full name. Of course it's a problem if the hint doesn't match with the question, in which case I would put in a correction, but bear in mind that questions are lifted from quizzes, so it's not that surprising that accepted answers vary from author to author.
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#688986 - Sat Feb 11 2012 09:36 AM Re: Fill Me In Game - Issues [Re: reeshy]
dg_dave Offline
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Registered: Sun Oct 05 2003
Posts: 21365
Loc: near Stafford, Virginia USA  
Also, fill in the blank questions are required to keep the hint that the system generates (unless the editor in the category instructs you otherwise), and if more than one answer is allowed, if the first one allowed is two words, then the system will put "two words" as the hint.

Example:

Answer: Bruce Wayne & Batman (generated hint will be "two words")
Answer: Batman & Bruce Wayne (generated hint will be "one word")

In both cases, the same answers are allowed, but it's all about which is written out first.


Edited by dg_dave (Sat Feb 11 2012 11:22 AM)
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The way to get things done is NOT to mind who gets the credit for doing them. --Benjamin Jowett
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. --Eleanor Roosevelt
The day we lose our will to fight is the day we lose our freedom.

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#688989 - Sat Feb 11 2012 09:52 AM Re: Fill Me In Game - Issues [Re: dg_dave]
agony Offline

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Registered: Sat Mar 29 2003
Posts: 12676
Loc: Western Canada
If you see something wrong, send a CN. I'd say that *real* consistency over the *entire* data base is not all that likely to happen in our lifetimes, though - everyone has higher priorities.

As reeshy says, always go with the hint if you can. If it asks for two words and you only know one, sure, type in the one and you might get lucky. I certainly wouldn't leave a question blank just because the only answer I know doesn't conform with the hint, but if you CAN follow the hint, do so.

I wish I had a better answer for you, but this isn't a perfect world. The amount of time and trouble it would take to make these all consistent would take away from things that are more important to most site members.

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#688990 - Sat Feb 11 2012 09:53 AM Re: Fill Me In Game - Issues [Re: dg_dave]
highfells Offline
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Registered: Sat Dec 15 2007
Posts: 338
Loc: Gerrard's Ghyll Cumbria UK
Originally Posted By: dg_dave

Answer: Bruce Wayne & Batman (hint will be "two words")
Answer: Batman & Bruce Wayne (hint will be "one word")

In both cases, the same answers are allowed, but it's all about which is written out first.



Blimey! That complicates things even more! eek
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#689001 - Sat Feb 11 2012 10:07 AM Re: Fill Me In Game - Issues [Re: highfells]
dg_dave Offline
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Registered: Sun Oct 05 2003
Posts: 21365
Loc: near Stafford, Virginia USA  
That wasn't my intent, highfells, but it was to show that you can get lucky going against the "hint." As agony said, with all of the quizzes, it's near impossible to get consistency. frown
_________________________
The way to get things done is NOT to mind who gets the credit for doing them. --Benjamin Jowett
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. --Eleanor Roosevelt
The day we lose our will to fight is the day we lose our freedom.

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#689015 - Sat Feb 11 2012 10:36 AM Re: Fill Me In Game - Issues [Re: dg_dave]
skunkee Offline
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Registered: Thu Oct 16 2003
Posts: 9797
Loc: Burlington Ontario Canada  
Sometimes quiz writers will allow for a second, commonly made mistake just to make things a little smoother and not have as many Correction Notes.

For example, in one of my (older) Movies quizzes, the answer was the movie title "Cast Away". That is the correct presentation of the title and the first accepted answer, so the hint rightly read, 'Two Words'.
However I also allowed for the not quite correct "Castaway" because a lot of people spell it that way. This is to avoid a host of Correction Notes from people angry because they felt they were cheated out of their 10 points.
Yes, if they had read the hint they would have known the right way to present the title, but it's amazing at the number of people who don't read the hint.
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#689016 - Sat Feb 11 2012 10:39 AM Re: Fill Me In Game - Issues [Re: dg_dave]
highfells Offline
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Registered: Sat Dec 15 2007
Posts: 338
Loc: Gerrard's Ghyll Cumbria UK
Originally Posted By: dg_dave
That wasn't my intent, highfells, but it was to show that you can get lucky going against the "hint." As agony said, with all of the quizzes, it's near impossible to get consistency. frown


Oh well, I shall just bash on and take my chances, since there seems to be no way of telling what will be accepted in these circumstances. Thanks for explaining some of the mechanics, folks! smile

Ah! The thrill of the unknown! grin
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I have a photographic memory, but keep forgetting to remove the lens cap...

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#689018 - Sat Feb 11 2012 10:43 AM Re: Fill Me In Game - Issues [Re: skunkee]
skunkee Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Thu Oct 16 2003
Posts: 9797
Loc: Burlington Ontario Canada  
Actually Dave your advice is a litle misleading.
Quote:
Example:

Answer: Bruce Wayne & Batman (hint will be "two words")
Answer: Batman & Bruce Wayne (hint will be "one word")

In both cases, the same answers are allowed, but it's all about which is written out first.


In the above example, it doesn't matter which answer is written first because the & symbol separates the accepted answers. I know that you understand this Dave, but someone who doesn't might be confused about how you have explained it.

In both of the above examples EITHER Bruce Wayne OR Batman will be allowed as a correct answer, not both.
In this case the Hint should read 'One or Two Words' as the quiz writer is allowing for either his secret identity or his crime fighting one as the correct answer.

I could have also done that with my above "Cast Away" example, but didn't want to because 'Castaway' really isn't the name of the movie!
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#689023 - Sat Feb 11 2012 10:55 AM Re: Fill Me In Game - Issues [Re: skunkee]
dg_dave Offline
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Registered: Sun Oct 05 2003
Posts: 21365
Loc: near Stafford, Virginia USA  
It really isn't though. The last quiz that I submitted (not the one in the queue) and had accepted has a couple of FITB questions. When I put in the correct answer, the system hint generated "One Word" on the hint. The correct answer in that question is one word, and the system pointed it out as such.

I tried it on a quiz template (which I deleted since I never submitted it), and it did exactly as I stated above, so in reality, what I said is 100% correct, since I tested it on a blank template.

You are correct in the fact it will not matter which is written first, but the system "sees" the first answer and generates the hint accordingly.


Edited by dg_dave (Sat Feb 11 2012 10:56 AM)
_________________________
The way to get things done is NOT to mind who gets the credit for doing them. --Benjamin Jowett
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. --Eleanor Roosevelt
The day we lose our will to fight is the day we lose our freedom.

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#689028 - Sat Feb 11 2012 11:01 AM Re: Fill Me In Game - Issues [Re: dg_dave]
skunkee Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Thu Oct 16 2003
Posts: 9797
Loc: Burlington Ontario Canada  
Yes, the system automatically generates the hint based on the number of words in the first answer. But you can change that.

And Dave I'm sorry - I never meant that what you said was inaccurate, just that is was a little misleading. The first time I read through what you said I got a totally different interpretation. I re-read and understood what you meant, but I have a better understanding of the system than a lot of our newer members.
I just felt that this might need a little clarification.


Edited by skunkee (Sat Feb 11 2012 11:03 AM)
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Editor: Movies/Celebrities/Crosswords

"To insult someone we call him 'bestial'. For deliberate cruelty and nature, 'human' might be the greater insult." - Isaac Asimov

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#689034 - Sat Feb 11 2012 11:13 AM Re: Fill Me In Game - Issues [Re: skunkee]
dg_dave Offline
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Registered: Sun Oct 05 2003
Posts: 21365
Loc: near Stafford, Virginia USA  
Maybe I should have written it out in a different way, but was trying to make it as simple as I could. Having an (almost - 17 days away) eleven year headstart does have its advantages I guess, but guess I also had an "oops" moment. wink

Edit: I modified the hints above to show that the system will generate it as such, so as to not make it look so "out there"...


Edited by dg_dave (Sat Feb 11 2012 11:23 AM)
_________________________
The way to get things done is NOT to mind who gets the credit for doing them. --Benjamin Jowett
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. --Eleanor Roosevelt
The day we lose our will to fight is the day we lose our freedom.

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#689044 - Sat Feb 11 2012 11:38 AM Re: Fill Me In Game - Issues [Re: dg_dave]
highfells Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Sat Dec 15 2007
Posts: 338
Loc: Gerrard's Ghyll Cumbria UK
So, let's see if I have understood the nitty-gritty of the mechanics of the system...

When an author generates a FITB question, "the system" will generate the number of words hint based on what the author has put as acceptable.

Assuming a hypothetical correct answer of "Fred Bloggs":

Fred Bloggs (hint, two words);
Fred Bloggs & Bloggs (hint, one or two words).

But, for example, if an author has specified a two word name but subsequently changes it to include, say, surname or nickname (for example, in response to a correction notice), does "the system" automatically change the hint? Or does the author have to do that manually?

If the author has to change the hint manually, I can see where some of these anomalies might arise. The same might apply if the quiz had been archived and a busy editor had to make the change.

Have I got the gist? Or am I wandering around with dark glasses on again? grin
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#689062 - Sat Feb 11 2012 11:53 AM Re: Fill Me In Game - Issues [Re: highfells]
dg_dave Offline
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Registered: Sun Oct 05 2003
Posts: 21365
Loc: near Stafford, Virginia USA  
Originally Posted By: highfells
Assuming a hypothetical correct answer of "Fred Bloggs":

Fred Bloggs (hint, two words);
Fred Bloggs & Bloggs (hint, one or two words).


You'd need to change the second one to read, "One or Two Words." It will still post the generated one as "Two Words" under both examples, since "Fred Bloggs" is written first.

Originally Posted By: highfells
But, for example, if an author has specified a two word name but subsequently changes it to include, say, surname or nickname (for example, in response to a correction notice), does "the system" automatically change the hint? Or does the author have to do that manually?


In most cases, no. If there hasn't been an answer put into the system, then it will auto-generate. Once an answer has been put in, it won't change it. I tried that on one of my online quizzes that isn't archived without saving.

Using your example above, if you put in the top answer only and get a CN to change it to the bottom one, the system will continue to show the hint as "Two Words" until you change it to show "One or Two Words."
_________________________
The way to get things done is NOT to mind who gets the credit for doing them. --Benjamin Jowett
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. --Eleanor Roosevelt
The day we lose our will to fight is the day we lose our freedom.

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#689079 - Sat Feb 11 2012 01:09 PM Re: Fill Me In Game - Issues [Re: dg_dave]
agony Offline

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Registered: Sat Mar 29 2003
Posts: 12676
Loc: Western Canada
The only part the system will do is give a hint based on the first answer given. Everything else must be done manually. It doesn't matter when the second answer option is added.

Some of you may have written several quizzes and not realized that a lot of this is done manually, because your editor just did it for you. In a perfect world, every time a second option was allowed, the person adding that option would make a change to the hint.

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#689094 - Sat Feb 11 2012 01:49 PM Re: Fill Me In Game - Issues [Re: agony]
highfells Offline
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Registered: Sat Dec 15 2007
Posts: 338
Loc: Gerrard's Ghyll Cumbria UK
Thanks for your patience, dg_dave and agony - I think I understand now, and can see the whys and wherefores of how the apparent anomalies arise.
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I have a photographic memory, but keep forgetting to remove the lens cap...

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#689130 - Sat Feb 11 2012 04:39 PM Re: Fill Me In Game - Issues [Re: highfells]
looney_tunes Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Tue Jan 20 2009
Posts: 3980
Loc: Briar Hill Victoria Australia 
I recently wrote a FITB quiz for which I added the number of letters in the country name to the system-generated hint of "One Word", since that wasn't really much help for players. One of the reasons I don't like to play FITB (aside from my lousy speed typing that always leads to typos) is the ambiguity of knowing exactly what the author wants in some cases. As an editor, I have occasionally received correction notes on behalf of authors who haven't been here for a long time, and who cannot be consulted about a problem with a FITB question. On at least one occasion, the best solution I could find was to change it to a multiple choice question, because the question as originally written had at least four different (not just variant) correct answers!
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