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#798512 - Thu May 31 2012 03:51 PM Re: Quiz Rankings Question [Re: AdamM7]
ladymacb29 Offline
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Registered: Wed Mar 15 2000
Posts: 15407
Loc: The Delta Quadrant
Originally Posted By: AdamM7

I rate a quiz very poor if it is riddled with typos/errors,


I hope you are sending a correction notice when you notice this so we can get these errors fixed.
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#798610 - Thu May 31 2012 09:39 PM Re: Quiz Rankings Question [Re: ladymacb29]
jmorrow Offline
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Posts: 923
Loc: Singapore
I just wanted to chime in on this as well. I've seen a few comments about how editors wouldn't place a "poor" quiz online, but the issue of player ratings is really a subjective one. As others have said, the full range of ratings are there for anyone to use or not use.

From an editor's point of view, I will place a quiz online if it meets the minimum standards of the site and category guidelines. While I often make suggestions to an author about how they can rework their quiz to avoid questions that have proven to be unpopular with players, I won't reject a quiz that I think will receive poor ratings from players if it otherwise satisfies the guidelines. It is the author's prerogative to write the quiz that they want to write (within reason, and our guidelines of course) and there are some authors who simply don't care about the player ratings.

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#798641 - Fri Jun 01 2012 12:53 AM Re: Quiz Rankings Question [Re: habitsowner]
AdamM7 Offline
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Registered: Sat Feb 18 2012
Posts: 528
Loc: Cheshire England UK           
Originally Posted By: ladymacb29
Originally Posted By: AdamM7

I rate a quiz very poor if it is riddled with typos/errors,


I hope you are sending a correction notice when you notice this so we can get these errors fixed.


I do send a correction note whenever I notice an error.


Originally Posted By: habitsowner
Adam, Agony and Lady C.,

Thank you for your comments. It's very hard for me to rate anything but good. I might try "average" if there's one allowed, which I think there is somewhere. But poor? Is it poor because I'm not interested in the subject matter or is it poor because I don't know the subject matter or is it poor because it is just poor. Very hard to tell the difference between the first and the third one. The second one is simply being mean.


If you're not interested in the subject matter, you can still usually tell if the quiz is good or bad. If you can't, then I'm not sure you should rate the quiz at all.

It definitely isn't poor because you don't know the subject matter.

It is poor because it just is. Awkward phrasing, extremely trivial questions, bad, or lack of, interesting info and sometimes even 2 answer options extremely close together (e.g. 3rd June 1948 and 4th June 1948) can turn a question, and a quiz, into a poor one.


EDIT TO ADD: This is just the way I rate - other people might have other methods.


Edited by AdamM7 (Fri Jun 01 2012 12:55 AM)
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#798646 - Fri Jun 01 2012 01:43 AM Re: Quiz Rankings Question [Re: AdamM7]
rossian Online   content
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For any new(ish) authors reading this thread, it is well worth taking note of any advice you receive from the editors. They really have 'seen it all' and I'm always only too happy to receive their guidance, particularly in those categories with which I'm not so familiar. It is your quiz, and you are entitled to ignore suggestions, but you do, presumably, want players to enjoy your effort, so it's best not to be too obstinate.
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#799112 - Sat Jun 02 2012 05:26 PM Re: Quiz Rankings Question [Re: AdamM7]
dg_dave Offline
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Registered: Sun Oct 05 2003
Posts: 19214
Loc: Dallas, TX USA              
Originally Posted By: AdamM7
If you're not interested in the subject matter, you can still usually tell if the quiz is good or bad. If you can't, then I'm not sure you should rate the quiz at all.


Yes, but remember that these ratings are subjective.

If you played the quiz, it's best to rate it. Whatever you do, though, don't rate a quiz "poor" or "very poor" if you scored a zero or one on it just because you scored poorly on it. Having been here eleven-plus years, I've seen this type thing happen far too often. Some of Jazz' quizzes are quite esoteric, and while I may not know the subject at hand like he does, I'm not going to rate a quiz that low if I've learned something. Rate according to how the quiz looks (structure, readability, and by the "wow, I learned something" factor), not upon how well you did. Is it right to rate a quiz that I scored two correct out of ten poor? If the quiz is poorly written, yes. The authors (in most cases) have spent plenty of time researching a quiz, and then someone will trash a rating solely because they scored poorly. It's not fair to the author who took the time to write it and the editor who placed it online.

Which type of quiz would I rather see: a quiz that is Q/A/Q/A, or one that tells why the answer is what it is? I'd rather see the latter, and remembering how the guidelines were in 2001 and what they are now, I am glad that the requirements have tightened. It makes for better quizzes and also allows the quiz taker to learn something.

As jmorrow said, and I would think the other editors would agree, if it meets the requirements of the site, a quiz will go online. Kyle edited one of mine, and he felt it was excellently written, but because people aren't scoring well on it, it's in the 90k range on rating. It met the guidelines of the site, therefore he put it online. If it did not meet the guidelines, no matter how well the quiz may be written, he would most certainly have rejected it, as well he should.
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#799158 - Sun Jun 03 2012 01:12 AM Re: Quiz Rankings Question [Re: dg_dave]
AdamM7 Offline
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Quote:
Whatever you do, though, don't rate a quiz "poor" or "very poor" if you scored a zero or one on it just because you scored poorly on it.


I was under the impression that you could only rate a quiz if you scored 2+ on a quiz, although I agree with the point you're trying to make.
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#799160 - Sun Jun 03 2012 01:17 AM Re: Quiz Rankings Question [Re: AdamM7]
kyleisalive Online   FT-cool
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Quote:
I was under the impression that you could only rate a quiz if you scored 2+ on a quiz


Correct.
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#799221 - Sun Jun 03 2012 07:13 AM Re: Quiz Rankings Question [Re: kyleisalive]
JanIQ Offline
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Yes indeed, you can only rate a quiz when you've answered at least two questions correctly. But the requirement of two correct answers is the same whatever the total number of questions in the quiz - even if it's a quiz consisting of 25 questions, you still only need two correct answers to rate the quiz.

I wonder if one can rate a quiz in a retake. For instance, if I score too low on an interesting quiz, could it help to retake the quiz and (hopefully) get the required two correct answers?
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#799245 - Sun Jun 03 2012 08:51 AM Re: Quiz Rankings Question [Re: JanIQ]
shuehorn Offline
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Registered: Tue Jul 04 2006
Posts: 2991
Loc: Lawrenceville Georgia USA     
Jan,
I think that has happened to me before, I have been able to rate a quiz that I originally scored too low on for the rating to take. The difference is that when I rate a quiz that I have already rated or one for which I didn't get enough points, I am just rerouted without showing that I got 20 points for rating the quiz. I am almost positive that I have gotten that message after re-rating a quiz when scoring higher on it a few days later.
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#799423 - Sun Jun 03 2012 05:34 PM Re: Quiz Rankings Question [Re: shuehorn]
ladymacb29 Offline
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Posts: 15407
Loc: The Delta Quadrant
Even if you retake a quiz, the only score that is saved/counted is the original score.
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#799458 - Sun Jun 03 2012 09:37 PM Re: Quiz Rankings Question [Re: ladymacb29]
shuehorn Offline
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Registered: Tue Jul 04 2006
Posts: 2991
Loc: Lawrenceville Georgia USA     
Right, but we are talking about being able to rate quizzes. The only time I have retaken quizzes is for challenges where I need to get a better score to get the tick-mark on the list and have it count for a challenge. I know I don't get a better score again for that, but I am almost sure that where I was blocked from rating the quiz the first time for not even having gotten two right answers, the second time when I got five or more I was able to rate the quiz and have it go through.
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#799464 - Sun Jun 03 2012 10:19 PM Re: Quiz Rankings Question [Re: shuehorn]
zorba_scank Offline
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Sue's right. I've noticed that too and I remember trying it out with one of Jazz's quizzes that I had scored too low on the first time.
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#801261 - Mon Jun 11 2012 08:19 AM Re: Quiz Rankings Question [Re: zorba_scank]
Jakeroo Offline
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Registered: Sat Aug 30 2008
Posts: 1779
Loc: Alberta Canada
Poor is probably the lowest I've ever given something. I've never (unless it was by accident) rated a quiz as very poor, not even the ones from more than a decade ago. If it was good enough to get online then, then that's not really fair. I'm a Libran (in real life too lol). Fair is what I'm all about. Even if I hated the SUBJECT of a quiz, I can appreciate either the work or the writing style that went into same. I've given excellent ratings to quizzes I knew absolutely nothing about (but which led me to mega-jump-googling for hours on related questions - sometimes it takes me more than an hour to complete a quiz - since I'm easily distracted LOL)

Ratings will always be subjective, of course. Nothing to be done about that. Some people rate all your quizzes as bad, simply because they don't like your online persona. Some people rate your quizzes excellent simply because you're on the same team.

But if I rate one Excellent and one Good, that's only because some are more "gooder" than others. They can't ALL be excellent lol. I try to/hope that I rate in comparison to all the ones I've played before.

As for editor's suggestions... yes I cringed when I got them (who wouldn't? lol), but in the end they always made for a better quiz. And now I have two favourite editors! - honestly folks, they have YOUR best interests in mind.

I agree with several posters above on many points.

All that being said, you probably shouldn't listen to me - because, of the quizzes I've written, my personal favourites don't have the highest ratings (giggles).
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#810125 - Sun Jul 22 2012 05:27 AM Re: Quiz Rankings Question [Re: dg_dave]
portgleep Offline
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Registered: Sat Oct 09 2010
Posts: 145
Loc: NYC New York USA              
In my experience, ratings are often not based on how good the quiz is overall, but instead, the main factors seem to be:

-The difficulty (10 question quizzes with 7-9 average correct seem to do the best)
-Are the questions short and simple, while interesting? (not too nit-picky)
-Do you have a decently sized II? (It seems that the quality of the IIs don't matter as much as the size of them... I attribute this to people not really reading them.)

The other thing is that once you get a high rating, people will just ASSUME that the quiz is good and give it an Excellent even if that isn't their opinion. Unfortunately, the same applies for low-rated quizzes. This means that its hard for your quiz's rank to change direction! (If its going up, it'll keep going up, if its going down, it'll keep doing so.)

I really wouldn't care too much about the ratings. One of my best quizzes (in my opinion) is rated at 37,131 - the second lowest of all my quizzes. Its a Harry Potter roleplaying quiz which took me forever to write, and which I've gotten some nice notes about from editors. Because the questions are all long and multi-sentence, players have to spend longer on it, which I assume they don't like.

On the other hand, my second best rated quiz (2726) is honestly just an average, nothing-special, simple quiz. No idea why it got good rankings, if I was to rank it I would probably give it an average.

However, if you get a quiz within the first 500, it normally means that that quiz actually IS good. For instance, my highest quiz (rated 408 and climbing) is probably my favorite quiz of mine, and definitely teaches people the most.
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#810131 - Sun Jul 22 2012 06:02 AM Re: Quiz Rankings Question [Re: portgleep]
AdamM7 Offline
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Registered: Sat Feb 18 2012
Posts: 528
Loc: Cheshire England UK           
Originally Posted By: portgleep
ratings are often not based on how good the quiz is overall


While I agree with everything you've said, I think that is the main point. Don't get too upset about ratings - as long as you are happy with the quiz, nothing else matters.

My second favourite quiz is not just in the bottom half of quizzes, but in the 90,000s. The top rated quiz I have (10,655) is, in my opinion, boring. It must have taken an hour to write, where as the 90,000 one must have taken at least 5 times as long.
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#810144 - Sun Jul 22 2012 07:29 AM Re: Quiz Rankings Question [Re: portgleep]
bloomsby Offline
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Registered: Sun Apr 29 2001
Posts: 3564
Loc: Norwich England UK            
Quote:
once you get a high rating, people will just ASSUME that the quiz is good and give it an Excellent even if that isn't their opinion.



I'm not at all sure about that. I don't think that many people rate on that basis. Perhaps quizzes with high ratings generally get played more and/or get a wider cross-section of players.

However, some people seem to pay very little attention to the quiz when rating. Some time ago a player sent me a compliment, but added that as the quiz had so many 'numerical questions' she'd not felt able to rate it Excellent, only Good. I was puzzled, went to the quiz, and it didn't contain even one single 'numerical question'. Presumably, something bugged the player but it can't have been what she said it was.

There are many, many factors at work when people rate quizzes.


Editor, History and People


Edited by bloomsby (Sun Jul 22 2012 07:30 AM)

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#810145 - Sun Jul 22 2012 07:49 AM Re: Quiz Rankings Question [Re: bloomsby]
AdamM7 Offline
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Registered: Sat Feb 18 2012
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Loc: Cheshire England UK           
Originally Posted By: bloomsby
There are many, many factors at work when people rate quizzes.


I think a fairly important factor that hasn't been mentioned is the mood of the player. If they're angry or upset at something, they might "take their anger out on the quiz" and rate it worse than they should. However, it does work both ways - a happy player might give you an excellent when they would give you a good or an average normally. Of course, you can't control the mood of the player, but it might still effect the rating.
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#810148 - Sun Jul 22 2012 08:22 AM Re: Quiz Rankings Question [Re: AdamM7]
portgleep Offline
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Registered: Sat Oct 09 2010
Posts: 145
Loc: NYC New York USA              
Originally Posted By: AdamM7
My second favourite quiz is not just in the bottom half of quizzes, but in the 90,000s. The top rated quiz I have (10,655) is, in my opinion, boring. It must have taken an hour to write, where as the 90,000 one must have taken at least 5 times as long.


I just played the quiz in question (although I guessed for all of them, because I haven't read the book in question) and I liked it! If I could rate it, I'd definitely give it an excellent.

However, I think that in this particular case the bad ratings may have come from people taking you too seriously - saying, "If you have ignored all my warnings to not play this excuse for a quiz, please rate it badly, so others will know not to play it. " is not very likely to help improve your ranks. :p

Additionally, non-10 question quizzes are generally not ranked as high.
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Its true that some of Winston Churchill's actions were praiseworthy. But personally, his treatment of India during and before WWII will always make me think of him primarily as an evil, powerhungry, racist murderer.

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#810156 - Sun Jul 22 2012 09:09 AM Re: Quiz Rankings Question [Re: portgleep]
AdamM7 Offline
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Posts: 528
Loc: Cheshire England UK           
Originally Posted By: portgleep
However, I think that in this particular case the bad ratings may have come from people taking you too seriously - saying, "If you have ignored all my warnings to not play this excuse for a quiz, please rate it badly, so others will know not to play it." is not very likely to help improve your ranks. :p


I'm not sure anyone did take me too seriously, but I think the tone was what made it such a badly rated quiz. I got a couple of messages from people telling me to shut up - in retrospect some of the things I wrote might have been a little OTT (but they didn't have to be so rude).
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#810159 - Sun Jul 22 2012 09:51 AM Re: Quiz Rankings Question [Re: AdamM7]
Snowman Offline
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Registered: Wed Oct 31 2007
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Loc: London England UK            
If people are rude to you in quiz compliments then flag them to the editors or admins - there is no call for that kind of behaviour on FunTrivia and it is not tolerated.
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#810162 - Sun Jul 22 2012 10:10 AM Re: Quiz Rankings Question [Re: Snowman]
AdamM7 Offline
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Registered: Sat Feb 18 2012
Posts: 528
Loc: Cheshire England UK           
Originally Posted By: Snowman
If people are rude to you in quiz compliments then flag them to the editors or admins - there is no call for that kind of behaviour on FunTrivia and it is not tolerated.


I did report one of them, but I deleted the messages because I didn't think the admins would need it to be in my inbox and I didn't want it sat there if it didn't need to be. If I got another one I would report it and not delete the message until I was told I could.


Edit reason: First bit didn't really make sense


Edited by AdamM7 (Sun Jul 22 2012 10:10 AM)
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#810222 - Sun Jul 22 2012 05:41 PM Re: Quiz Rankings Question [Re: AdamM7]
salami_swami Offline
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Loc: Colorado USA
Bloomsby, I think the quiz ranking does have something to do with how others rate it. Playing a quiz rated under 10... It is difficult for me to rate those even good... I feel bad not giving it an excellent, thinking they must be better than I realize... So I so think the ranking has something to do with it, personally.
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#810223 - Sun Jul 22 2012 06:12 PM Re: Quiz Rankings Question [Re: salami_swami]
kaddarsgirl Offline
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Registered: Wed Jun 27 2012
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When I rate quizzes, I hardly ever rate them based on their ranking. The quizzes that I enjoy playing are the ones I give "Good" and "Excellent" ratings. It doesn't matter to me how many questions there were or what the ranking was or how difficult the quiz was (you know, Tough, Difficult, Easy, etc.). My personal quizzes are not rated any easier than "Tough" and it is the more difficult quizzes that I enjoy playing. If I can whip through it like a "Piece of Cake" game, then I tend not to rate them as high. Often times there are corrections, or points of contention that I have with an answer or "interesting information" on a quiz, but those don't necessarily affect my rating either. I have had issue with questions on quizzes, and have let the authors know, and have still rated the quizzes "Excellent". I like playing quizzes, and rate quizzes higher, that feel to me as if they took a lot of time and thought to create. My recent "The Lyrics of Les Miersables" quiz took me 8 hours of research and rewriting to complete. It has 25 questions and they are all fairly long. The additional information I included are not exactly short one-sentence facts. The quiz is "Difficult", but still of the 25 ratings it has gotten, 21 are "Good" and "Excellent". There are more "Good" and "Excellent" ratings than people who have scored over 20/25 so that leads me to believe that even not doing well on a quiz doesn't entirely affect the ratings.


Edited by kaddarsgirl (Sun Jul 22 2012 08:34 PM)
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#810231 - Sun Jul 22 2012 07:14 PM Re: Quiz Rankings Question [Re: kaddarsgirl]
snediger Offline
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Registered: Fri Jan 15 2010
Posts: 8
Loc: Amarillo Texas USA            
Well said, kaddarsgirl.
How a quiz is ranked makes no difference to me. If it's easy, medium or difficult has no bearing on how I rate them either. I'll tell you a couple of things that would make me rate a quiz poorly:
(a) If it appears to me the quiz was slapped together haphazardly and the quizzer devoted very little time to it. How do I determine that? If the i/i is sparse or does not address the question at hand. I want i/i that is pertinent, not all over the place. I don't want it giving more information about the wrong alternate choices than the correct answer.
(b) Confusing language. I want to be able to know exactly what the quizzer wants, even if I don't know the answer. I'll give you an example: "Cleopatra gave Catherine, her daughter, an heirloom. How did she like that?" Now does the quizzer mean how did she (Cleopatra) like it or how did she (Catherine) like it?
(c) What I call "Gotcha! questions." If it appears to me the author WANTS me to get it wrong by offering a tricky question that has an alternate incorrect choice he knows I'll go for, that's a GOTCHA! Too many of them and the quizzer earns a less-than-stellar rating from me.
However, having said all that, most of the ratings I give out are on the positive side.
What distinguishes a "good quiz" from an "excellent quiz" to me? Good writing with some humor. Every now and then, use a silly alternative choice that has to be a joke (after all, you have three wrong answers to offer.) Also, tell me something I don't know. Make me go hmmm every now and then. Those things are the mark of an excellent quiz, not just a good one.


Edited by snediger (Sun Jul 22 2012 07:18 PM)

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#810234 - Sun Jul 22 2012 07:58 PM Re: Quiz Rankings Question [Re: kaddarsgirl]
agony Offline

Administrator

Registered: Sat Mar 29 2003
Posts: 11431
Loc: Western Canada
I can't remember ever noticing what the ranking of a quiz was before I took it, unless I was led to it by something like the Top 25 link. Almost all the quizzes I play are brand new ones that are not ranked yet, so can categorically state that this plays no role in my ratings.

Of my top 25 quizzes, ten have more than ten questions, so I don't think quiz length is a big factor, either.

My honest opinion? Quizzes that are enjoyable to play get high rankings. It really is as simple as that. Different people will have different ideas of what 'enjoyable' means, so you can't really play to that with any degree of accuracy. Best you can do is write quizzes that you find enjoyable, and hope that you're not the only person with your tastes.

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