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#815234 - Tue Aug 14 2012 10:17 PM Re: How would you do this maths equation? [Re: kaddarsgirl]
Copago Offline
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Loc: Australia
When all the liquid paper dries wink I'll scan it and post it to show.

and thank you!


Edited by Copago (Tue Aug 14 2012 10:18 PM)

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#815235 - Tue Aug 14 2012 10:22 PM Re: How would you do this maths equation? [Re: Copago]
kaddarsgirl Offline
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Well it's half past midnight here, so I think I'll be heading to bed, but I will definitely take a look at the paper tomorrow if you do post it on here sometime tonight. You've gotten me so very curious about it now. Goodnight smile
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#815236 - Tue Aug 14 2012 10:28 PM Re: How would you do this maths equation? [Re: kaddarsgirl]
Copago Offline
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G'night and thanks again!

For your viewing pleasure tomorrow ..

http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab261/copagostation/BODMAS001.jpg


(oops, meant to post link to actual pic!)


Edited by Copago (Tue Aug 14 2012 10:29 PM)

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#815250 - Tue Aug 14 2012 11:15 PM Re: How would you do this maths equation? [Re: Copago]
Lones78 Offline
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Copago
I was explaining to my (nearly) 10 year old the same thing a few weeks ago. Possibly your son and mine are in the same year at school and learning the same thing? My son is in year 4. He hasn't learnt it in class yet but some of his homework comes home with this sort of thing on it. It frustrates me that he gets homework that hasn't even learnt yet. I send him back to school with his homework covered in notes and with attachments so the teacher can correct me if I am teaching him the wrong way. So far so good... smile
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#815268 - Wed Aug 15 2012 02:45 AM Re: How would you do this maths equation? [Re: Lones78]
Copago Offline
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yep, mine is in Year 4 also (and it's the first time this kind of equation has been introduced) ... and don't get me started on the actual work! lol Mine does school of the air so all the work gets sent out and I have to deliver it to him and similar to you they expect him to be able to do a 'test' each week on stuff that hasn't been covered yet.

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#815440 - Wed Aug 15 2012 04:53 PM Re: How would you do this maths equation? [Re: Copago]
Lones78 Offline
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Possibly they are testing where the parents' skills lie and not the child's smile
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#815666 - Thu Aug 16 2012 01:51 PM Re: How would you do this maths equation? [Re: kaddarsgirl]
mehaul Offline
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Registered: Wed Feb 03 2010
Posts: 4969
Loc: Florida USA
23-1(4+9){or, 23-(4+9}=23-4-9=23-13=10
23-4+9=19+9=28
Artificially inserting a set of brackets or parentheses where they aren't specifically expressed leads to the wrong (+/-) being assigned to the individual units. Copago, you seem to insert brackets on your own to separate out the steps as you perform them. This can lead to errors. In the first example above the negative sign is applied across the board into the parentheses, changing a plus 4 to a negative 4 and a plus nine into a negative 9. when it is only the 4 unit that is negative. Once all brackets, exponents and multiply/divides have been done and you are left with only +/-, work left to right, addding and subtracting (whichever is called for in order) as you go.
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#815682 - Thu Aug 16 2012 02:50 PM Re: How would you do this maths equation? [Re: Copago]
jabb5076 Offline
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Thanks everyone for explaining the rule. I imagine I learned it once upon a time, but it's so far back in the distant mists of elementary school that I have no memory of it.

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#815720 - Thu Aug 16 2012 04:05 PM Re: How would you do this maths equation? [Re: jabb5076]
kaddarsgirl Offline
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Looking back on these posts I've just realized something...how young the kids are that are learning this. My first exposure to PEMDAS was in 7th grade algebra (1st year of middle school). 10 years old seems awfully young to me to be learning such things. I was in the highest level of math that my school district offered for my grade (advanced programs since 4th grade/9yo) and I was young for my class. I didn't even get it until I was 12. Some people didn't even get Algebra until 9th grade/freshman year of high school. Maybe they just start teaching things at a later age in the US than they do in Australia...
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#815733 - Thu Aug 16 2012 04:56 PM Re: How would you do this maths equation? [Re: kaddarsgirl]
Lones78 Offline
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I remember learning it in primary school (somewhere between year 5 and 7 - which is about 10-12 years old). I learnt it as BIMDAS though. Nothing has changed (except what people are calling it) it's just difficult to explain concepts to your kids if you aren't entirely sure of it yourself.

I feel sorry for those parents who struggled in school and now have to try to explain some of these things to their own kids.
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#815739 - Thu Aug 16 2012 05:37 PM Re: How would you do this maths equation? [Re: Lones78]
Copago Offline
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"it's just difficult to explain concepts to your kids if you aren't entirely sure of it yourself. "

Oh God, isn't that the truth?!? wink

As I said to the teacher .. going soley on that page I posted up there it doesn't say anything about Multiplication and Division together or additon and Subtraction.. just that it should be done in a specific order which is what confused me. I took it too literally.
And I just flat out said I'm not gettting him to work something out a "wrong way".

I am willing to bet that this doesn't come up for a while again in his work .. which does annoy me somewhat. If pressed the teacher would say we are just "exposing" them to it for teaching at a later stage. it seems to be a common answer. smirk

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#815750 - Thu Aug 16 2012 07:01 PM Re: How would you do this maths equation? [Re: Copago]
jabb5076 Offline
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It's funny this has come up as a topic for discussion right now, as my oldest grandchild, a 10 year old boy in 5th grade, was struggling with his math homework today. He brought it to his mom, my oldest daughter, who majored in theatre at University and thinks math is Satan! She took one look at it, said, "That's algebra! Go talk to your stepdad. I don't do algebra!"

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#815832 - Fri Aug 17 2012 05:16 AM Re: How would you do this maths equation? [Re: jabb5076]
sue943 Offline

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÷

Hold down Alt key and type 0247




Edited by sue943 (Fri Aug 17 2012 05:16 AM)
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#815840 - Fri Aug 17 2012 05:37 AM Re: How would you do this maths equation? [Re: sue943]
Copago Offline
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Knew it would be there somewhere .. Thanks Sue. smile

lol Jabb It's not that I think Maths is Satan but, after this, it's certainly hanging out with him. wink

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#815863 - Fri Aug 17 2012 07:26 AM Re: How would you do this maths equation? [Re: Copago]
kaddarsgirl Offline
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Alt and 0247 on my computer gives me a string of a bunch of symbols: º™¢¶. To get the ÷ symbol I have to type Alt and the / key. I have a Mac.
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#816019 - Sat Aug 18 2012 02:27 AM Re: How would you do this maths equation? [Re: kaddarsgirl]
sue943 Offline

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Originally Posted By: kaddarsgirl
Alt and 0247 on my computer gives me a string of a bunch of symbols: º™¢¶. To get the ÷ symbol I have to type Alt and the / key. I have a Mac.


That last sentence says it all. smile
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#816231 - Sat Aug 18 2012 08:44 PM Re: How would you do this maths equation? [Re: sue943]
Copago Offline
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Loc: Australia
They should just have a key for it smirk .. and one for the most common fractions too come to that.

I have another question for anyone still coming in ..
What would 3.25 hours mean to you?
3 hours and 15 minutes or three hours and 25 minutes?

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#816234 - Sat Aug 18 2012 08:58 PM Re: How would you do this maths equation? [Re: Copago]
kaddarsgirl Offline
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Originally Posted By: Copago
They should just have a key for it smirk .. and one for the most common fractions too come to that.

I have another question for anyone still coming in ..
What would 3.25 hours mean to you?
3 hours and 15 minutes or three hours and 25 minutes?


It would definitely be great if there was a key that had the ÷ key on it.

I read it as 3.25 hours to be 3 hours 15 minutes. 3.25 as in 3 and 1/4 hrs. Usually when I want to write 3 hrs and 25 minutes (like for keeping time at work) I will write 3h25, which is just as fast as 3.25 to write, but not as confusing to me when I go back to look later. I use .25, .5, and .75 to me 15mins, 30mins, and 45mins, but if I have a weird time, I'll write h05, or h40, or h35, just so I don't confuse myself!
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#816388 - Sun Aug 19 2012 09:53 PM Re: How would you do this maths equation? [Re: kaddarsgirl]
Lones78 Offline
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I would think that 3.25 means three and a quarter hours (3hr 15 mins). 3:25 would be twenty-five past three.
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#816466 - Mon Aug 20 2012 06:05 AM Re: How would you do this maths equation? [Re: Lones78]
sue943 Offline

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Another for three and a quarter.
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#822490 - Tue Sep 11 2012 08:35 PM Re: How would you do this maths equation? [Re: Copago]
Jazmee27 Offline
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Three and a quarter hours.


Edited by Jazmee27 (Tue Sep 11 2012 08:40 PM)
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#822598 - Wed Sep 12 2012 07:03 AM Re: How would you do this maths equation? [Re: Jazmee27]
ren33 Offline
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yep
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#826036 - Sun Sep 23 2012 01:41 PM Re: How would you do this maths equation? [Re: Copago]
Jazmee27 Offline
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When I was in school, I was shuffled through grade to grade without understanding math. I didn’t, nor do I now, have the patience before it. Whenever I see an equation, I get a headache (although I do seem to remember in my last year or so of high school that somebody finally thought to give me extra support in that subject—and I went from getting Ds to Bs.

When I took math in college, I had to take prerequisites—and failed the first time I took it (this was bef ore I realized that a D constituted a failing grade). I had to repay to take the course, switched to another instructor (who had a reputation around campus as being “great,”) and got an A or a B (I don’t remember which offhand).

My problem has always been compounded by the way math equations (and graphs) are portrayed in Braille (depending on the type of graph, it needed an interpreter—and as for the equations… and one math book was at least 28 Braille volumes!) Anyone surprised I routinely fell behind?

There’s something fundamentally wrong with a school system that teaches students this way frown
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#826069 - Sun Sep 23 2012 04:45 PM Re: How would you do this maths equation? [Re: Jazmee27]
mehaul Offline
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Posts: 4969
Loc: Florida USA
The boundaries to my back property line are 11.33 feet (expressed as 11.33' on the plat) from the back of the structure. There is a utility easement in the last five of that footage. My neighbor also has a five foot easement on his side of the line. He did some building in that five foot meaning any utility work would be essentially forced to take place on my property and not fairly on his too. I filed a complaint (it is legally called encroachment). The Committee responsible for enforcing those rules sent out a woman who read the plat as saying my property went 11 feet thirty three inches in back of my house. How can someone who needs to make decisions about property lines not know that if 11 feet 33 inches was what was real it would have been expressed in whole feet and fractions of a foot and not whole feet and multiples of feet? Eleven point three three feet turned into 11 feet 33 inches to this arbiter and so she measured 13 feet 9 inches back from my house to find where the property divide was. "Well you filed a valid complaint because this work has been done on your property," she said!
When I told her that 11.33' meant 11 and a third feet or 11'4" and she went to remeasure, she then tried to tell me my property line only went back 6.33 feet because the utilities companies owned the land the easement was on. I then had to explain that I paid taxes on the 11.33' and that the easement meant I owned the land but ceeded certain activities on my land could be performed by the utilities. She just shut up and left. I went to the office to ask why they sent such an unknowledgable person on such a job. I heard crying and arguing coming from an office down the hallway as I stood at the front desk. It was her as I saw from the front desk when she left the office where the disturbance was. She then accused me of sneaking around and eavesdropping as she reported her findings. She recommended not to find in my favor. Seems when people are shown they are wrong, they'll go that extra mile to make your life miserable.
I can fully appreciate the problem that 3.25 hours can present to people who know and need correct interpretation of time statements by someone who does not understand fractional notation.
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#827894 - Sat Sep 29 2012 06:16 AM Re: How would you do this maths equation? [Re: mehaul]
Copago Offline
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Loc: Australia
You could probably guess this but the answer was 3 hours and 25 minutes.
*sigh*
the question was something along the lines of adding 3.25 hours to six thirty. i think the kids were supposed to guess that "six thirty" meant that it was a digital clock and that 3.25 on a digital clock is 3 hours and twenty five minutes. I still think it's 'wrong' even after the answer was explained.

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