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#817064 - Wed Aug 22 2012 12:55 AM Fun Trivia - Is It?
gazhammer Offline
Participant

Registered: Tue Aug 21 2012
Posts: 16
I have recently joined Fun Trivia and spent my first few days along with my girlfriend taking loads of movie triv quizzes, which as massive film fans we have enjoyed immensely.

After looking for a quiz on a specific movie and realising there were none available, i thought it would be "fun" to create my own.

Well how wrong was i, having read the rules and regs on creating a quiz, i put together my 10 questions and sent it off to one of the many editors.

I then get a message back from said editor with a list as long as my arm of so called mistakes. Now, i hold my hand up to some/few/many, but surely the odd missing comma or full stop could simply be rectified by the "editor"?

Truth is, i haven't been challenged on my punctuation since i was 15 or 16 years old, i'm 40 now and what with Facebook, mobile phones and posting on footie forums and such, punctuation has kind of taken a back seat and crude abbreviations have crept in to my writing.

As well as punctuation i have been pulled up on my 1.1 info, where i have been repeatedly advised to "tell us a little bit about the character". Thing is, i've done this, ok i haven't gone into massive detail, but surely this is not necessary as it is simply a post question/answer bit of trivia?

Last but not least, i wrote a question asking what state of America the movie was set and in my 1.1 i point out the actual City and state, as well as the fact that there are many references saying as much throughout the movie, but i get a message from the "editor" saying, "this does not help me understand if i got the answer wrong", what???

I recently read an admission from a very famous writer that his punctuation and grammar was "not the greatest" and a big thank you went to his editor for making sense of it all and putting right his mistakes. This is a man who earns millions of dollars selling his books, i just wanted to "have fun" writing a 10 question quiz for an online trivia website. frown

Sorry for any punctuation or grammatical errors, but i am not an English Professor, sadly.

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#817067 - Wed Aug 22 2012 01:51 AM Re: Fun Trivia - Is It? [Re: gazhammer]
gazhammer Offline
Participant

Registered: Tue Aug 21 2012
Posts: 16
My post has disappeared?

(sorry, its been moved)


Edited by gazhammer (Wed Aug 22 2012 01:53 AM)

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#817069 - Wed Aug 22 2012 02:27 AM Re: Fun Trivia - Is It? [Re: gazhammer]
looney_tunes Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Tue Jan 20 2009
Posts: 2981
Loc: Briar Hill Victoria Australia 
Gazhammer, I do not edit in Movies, and haven't seen your quiz, so I cannot comment on most of your points. But I can say that when a first quiz is submitted with spelling/grammar/punctuation issues, I am quite likely to ask the quiz writer to address them rather than just fixing them myself. I would not send a quiz back for more work if all that needed to be done was to add a comma or two, but if there are content issues that need to be addressed, I will ask the author to make the fixes while they work on it. And if I see multiple errors of expression in each question, I will expect the author to keep working to produce something that is more nearly written in standard English. This request is primarily about helping the author produce better quizzes in the future by being aware of what is expected.

You might find it helpful to remember that we have a lot of older quizzes on the site which were written at a time when standards weren't as high as they are now,especially in terms of the inclusion of extra information. Many old quizzes have little or even no extra information, current quizzes are expected to provide more substantial information. In Literature, the stated minimum is two or three sentences, but many quizzes have more than that. Players who want to learn from the quiz will appreciate the effort you put in; others will just skip over it.
_________________________
(Editor in Humanities, Literature and Books For Children)
That's all, folks!

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#817071 - Wed Aug 22 2012 02:40 AM Re: Fun Trivia - Is It? [Re: looney_tunes]
gazhammer Offline
Participant

Registered: Tue Aug 21 2012
Posts: 16
Originally Posted By: looney_tunes
Gazhammer, I do not edit in Movies, and haven't seen your quiz, so I cannot comment on most of your points. But I can say that when a first quiz is submitted with spelling/grammar/punctuation issues, I am quite likely to ask the quiz writer to address them rather than just fixing them myself. I would not send a quiz back for more work if all that needed to be done was to add a comma or two, but if there are content issues that need to be addressed, I will ask the author to make the fixes while they work on it. And if I see multiple errors of expression in each question, I will expect the author to keep working to produce something that is more nearly written in standard English. This request is primarily about helping the author produce better quizzes in the future by being aware of what is expected.

You might find it helpful to remember that we have a lot of older quizzes on the site which were written at a time when standards weren't as high as they are now,especially in terms of the inclusion of extra information. Many old quizzes have little or even no extra information, current quizzes are expected to provide more substantial information. In Literature, the stated minimum is two or three sentences, but many quizzes have more than that. Players who want to learn from the quiz will appreciate the effort you put in; others will just skip over it.


I understand what your saying, but grammar and punctuation issues(i rarely/never misspell) are very minor errors and would take literally seconds to fix.

As for the 1.1's i mention, what is more interesting...

1. "Characters name" likes to wear sharp suits and is rather egotistical. BORING sleep

Or

2. The Director wanted "famous actors name" for the part, but he was busy with another movie, luckily for "another actor" this gave him his big break and is now somewhat of a Hollywood legend. Fun and interesting cool

I went for option 2, but have been told that's wrong??? crazy

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#817073 - Wed Aug 22 2012 04:54 AM Re: Fun Trivia - Is It? [Re: gazhammer]
jmorrow Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Wed Oct 08 2008
Posts: 948
Loc: Singapore
Although I do edit in Movies, I won't comment on the editing of this particular quiz, as that is between you and your editor. I would also direct you to the topic in this forum entitled "Disputes with editors", which explains that this is NOT the place to air disagreements with editors.

As to the general points you have raised, while it is possible for grammar and punctuation issues to be minor errors requiring only seconds to fix, that is a question of degree. If a quiz contains far too many of such errors, these "seconds" start to add up rather quickly. Multiply that by the number of similar submissions in a popular category like Movies, which attracts more than its fair share of first time authors, and it isn't hard to imagine a large chunk of an editor's time being consumed with correcting such errors.

Since you seem to have a liking for comparisons, here's one. Which of these is the better approach?

1. Editors should make all corrections for grammar and punctuation issues and never point out these errors to quiz authors, so that they never have the opportunity to learn or improve, thereby ensuring that these errors will almost certainly be repeated by the same author in every future quiz submission, thereby necessitating more time spent by the editors correcting such errors.

Or

2. Editors DO point out systemic errors in grammar and punctuation, thereby giving authors the chance to correct these issues and produce better quiz submissions in the future.

Or even

3. Quiz authors should carefully proofread their quiz submissions for grammar and punctuation issues, which by your own admission take literally mere seconds to fix.

I would go for option 3 if I can get it, but would settle for option 2. smile

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#817076 - Wed Aug 22 2012 05:22 AM Re: Fun Trivia - Is It? [Re: jmorrow]
gazhammer Offline
Participant

Registered: Tue Aug 21 2012
Posts: 16
Originally Posted By: jmorrow
Although I do edit in Movies, I won't comment on the editing of this particular quiz, as that is between you and your editor. I would also direct you to the topic in this forum entitled "Disputes with editors", which explains that this is NOT the place to air disagreements with editors.

As to the general points you have raised, while it is possible for grammar and punctuation issues to be minor errors requiring only seconds to fix, that is a question of degree. If a quiz contains far too many of such errors, these "seconds" start to add up rather quickly. Multiply that by the number of similar submissions in a popular category like Movies, which attracts more than its fair share of first time authors, and it isn't hard to imagine a large chunk of an editor's time being consumed with correcting such errors.

Since you seem to have a liking for comparisons, here's one. Which of these is the better approach?

1. Editors should make all corrections for grammar and punctuation issues and never point out these errors to quiz authors, so that they never have the opportunity to learn or improve, thereby ensuring that these errors will almost certainly be repeated by the same author in every future quiz submission, thereby necessitating more time spent by the editors correcting such errors.

Or

2. Editors DO point out systemic errors in grammar and punctuation, thereby giving authors the chance to correct these issues and produce better quiz submissions in the future.

Or even

3. Quiz authors should carefully proofread their quiz submissions for grammar and punctuation issues, which by your own admission take literally mere seconds to fix.

I would go for option 3 if I can get it, but would settle for option 2. smile


First off, my post has been moved, granted i may have posted it in the wrong place initially, but it has since been moved here by who i can only imagine must be one of the moderators. tongue

Secondly, why have editors if they are not there to edit?

Thirdly, not all people are punctually or grammatically aware, as i've said, even some famous writers admit to such shortcomings.

Just saying


Edited by gazhammer (Wed Aug 22 2012 05:37 AM)

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#817077 - Wed Aug 22 2012 05:27 AM Re: Fun Trivia - Is It? [Re: gazhammer]
dg_dave Offline
Star Poster

Registered: Sun Oct 05 2003
Posts: 19486
Loc: Dallas, TX USA              
Originally Posted By: gazhammer
Secondly, why have editors if they are not there to edit?


They do edit, as both of the previous posters other than yourself, gazhammer, are editors. L_T said she will fix minor errors on a seasoned author. Many mistakes are made on first time quizzes as some do not read the guidelines and others have substandard work submitted. I have had a few questions tweaked because they'd sound better structurally, and I've been on the quiz side for 11½ years. No one is perfect, and they are not expecting you to be. They will work with you, provided you reciprocate.
_________________________
The way to get things done is NOT to mind who gets the credit for doing them. --Benjamin Jowett
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. --Eleanor Roosevelt
The day we lose our will to fight is the day we lose our freedom.

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#817078 - Wed Aug 22 2012 05:39 AM Re: Fun Trivia - Is It? [Re: dg_dave]
gazhammer Offline
Participant

Registered: Tue Aug 21 2012
Posts: 16
Originally Posted By: dg_dave
Originally Posted By: gazhammer
Secondly, why have editors if they are not there to edit?


They do edit, as both of the previous posters other than yourself, gazhammer, are editors. L_T said she will fix minor errors on a seasoned author. Many mistakes are made on first time quizzes as some do not read the guidelines and others have substandard work submitted. I have had a few questions tweaked because they'd sound better structurally, and I've been on the quiz side for 11½ years. No one is perfect, and they are not expecting you to be. They will work with you, provided you reciprocate.


I have, twice already, next time i'll post what the editor say's and you can see for yourself.

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#817084 - Wed Aug 22 2012 06:17 AM Re: Fun Trivia - Is It? [Re: jmorrow]
Tizzabelle Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Sun Jan 17 2010
Posts: 2126
Loc: Sydney NSW Australia         
Originally Posted By: gazhammer
I have, twice already, next time i'll post what the editor say's and you can see for yourself.

Originally Posted By: jmorrow
Although I do edit in Movies, I won't comment on the editing of this particular quiz, as that is between you and your editor. I would also direct you to the topic in this forum entitled "Disputes with editors", which explains that this is NOT the place to air disagreements with editors.

Like Looney_tunes, I'm not a movie editor but I do agree with everything L_T and jmorrow have said. I can't speak for any of the other editors but one thing I love about editing is when a new author presents a quiz which isn't quite up to scratch and I give them some ideas on improving it. Some authors take the ball and run with it, presenting a quiz that is now four times as good as the original. It makes this editor's heart sing a little. I know that when you start writing quizzes the guidelines can seem Draconian (my first quiz was rejected because of one typo) but I have learnt from every quiz I've written and many of the quizzes I've edited. Try working with the editor a little more and perhaps you'll turn out a masterpiece. As per the quote from jmorrow, here's a link to the relevant thread.
http://www.funtrivia.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/294252/Disputes_with_editors#Post294252
_________________________
Editor Animals, Brain Teasers and Geography.
I am online, therefore I am.

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#817085 - Wed Aug 22 2012 06:29 AM Re: Fun Trivia - Is It? [Re: gazhammer]
LadyCaitriona Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Thu Feb 08 2001
Posts: 5435
Loc: Ottawa Ontario Canada         
Originally Posted By: gazhammer
I have, twice already, next time i'll post what the editor say's and you can see for yourself.


Please do not do this. As jmorrow has already pointed out, this is not the proper venue for settling disputes/grievances with editors.

I think you're forgetting that this is a service provided for free to all members of the site. We accept that there are going to be authors who require a little bit more help, and one of the things that we try to do is work with these authors and help them improve so that their next submissions will not require the same errors to be fixed over and over again--it wastes your time, having to fix them, and it wastes our time, pointing them out. It would waste even more time if we didn't point them out, and fixed them ourselves, only to have to do it again the next time that author submits a quiz.

Our time should be divided equally between all members: if there is an author who is unwilling to work co-operatively with us and repeatedly wastes our time, this is problematic because it means that everyone else will have to wait longer for their submissions to be seen.


Edited by LadyCaitriona (Wed Aug 22 2012 06:30 AM)
_________________________
Chan fhiach cuirm gun a comhradh.
A feast is no use without good talk.

Editor for Humanities and Movies

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#817086 - Wed Aug 22 2012 06:41 AM Re: Fun Trivia - Is It? [Re: gazhammer]
dg_dave Offline
Star Poster

Registered: Sun Oct 05 2003
Posts: 19486
Loc: Dallas, TX USA              
Originally Posted By: gazhammer
I have, twice already, next time i'll post what the editor say's and you can see for yourself.


In honesty, the messages between you and your editor need to stay between yourselves. It sounds to me as if you think the editor is wrong, which is far from the truth. These editors weren't picked because they want to solely reject quizzes (however they do if the quiz's structure is substandard), but they were picked because they know what will or will not work. Some of these editors have been editing since I became a member. Talk to your editor in a private message session, and ask for help.
_________________________
The way to get things done is NOT to mind who gets the credit for doing them. --Benjamin Jowett
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. --Eleanor Roosevelt
The day we lose our will to fight is the day we lose our freedom.

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#817090 - Wed Aug 22 2012 06:54 AM Re: Fun Trivia - Is It? [Re: dg_dave]
Christinap Offline
Prolific

Registered: Sun Jul 27 2008
Posts: 1624
Loc: Essex UK
A lot of the editors here have been editing since well before many of us were even members. They know what works and what doesn't. Even experienced authors are not perfect, I'm sure Tizzabelle won't mind me saying that she and I worked for some time on a Brain Twist I did recently. It's not a category I often write in and she was endlessly patient with me and by working together we got it on line. Thing to bear in mind is there is a world of difference between a discussion and an argument. If you don't understand why your editor is rejecting something or wants something changed then politely ask them to explain a bit more. But whatever you do please don't publish the messages here, these should remain private between the two of you.

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#817091 - Wed Aug 22 2012 07:05 AM Re: Fun Trivia - Is It? [Re: Tizzabelle]
kaddarsgirl Offline
Prolific

Registered: Wed Jun 27 2012
Posts: 1684
Loc: Ohio USA
I'd like to present a little bit of a side of quizzes from a quiz maker and quiz player perspective.

Originally Posted By: gazhammer
I understand what your saying, but grammar and punctuation issues(i rarely/never misspell) are very minor errors and would take literally seconds to fix.

As for the 1.1's i mention, what is more interesting...

1. "Characters name" likes to wear sharp suits and is rather egotistical. BORING sleep

Or

2. The Director wanted "famous actors name" for the part, but he was busy with another movie, luckily for "another actor" this gave him his big break and is now somewhat of a Hollywood legend. Fun and interesting cool

I went for option 2, but have been told that's wrong??? crazy


I don't know what your question is that goes along with the interesting info you've provided, but in the interesting info of quizzes (the ones I would rate Good or Excellent) I look for info that is both interesting AND explains why the correct answer is the correct answer and/or why all the incorrect answers are incorrect. Just because you add an interesting fact does not mean that it's relevant.


Originally Posted By: gazhammer
I then get a message back from said editor with a list as long as my arm of so called mistakes. Now, i hold my hand up to some/few/many, but surely the odd missing comma or full stop could simply be rectified by the "editor"?

Truth is, i haven't been challenged on my punctuation since i was 15 or 16 years old, i'm 40 now and what with Facebook, mobile phones and posting on footie forums and such, punctuation has kind of taken a back seat and crude abbreviations have crept in to my writing.

As well as punctuation i have been pulled up on my 1.1 info, where i have been repeatedly advised to "tell us a little bit about the character". Thing is, i've done this, ok i haven't gone into massive detail, but surely this is not necessary as it is simply a post question/answer bit of trivia?


Also from a quiz-playing perspective...I would much rather play a quiz that is written well than one that is full of grammar, spelling and punctuation mistakes. If I see mistakes, on content or spelling/grammar/punctuation, in a quiz (especially a new one) I will often times send a correction note to the author. Writing quizzes using well-written English is not just an expectation of the editors to put quizzes online. No one wants to play a quiz that was placed online with a bunch of errors, because the questions/info would be hard to understand. People would surely rate a quiz with so many errors as "Poor" or "Very Poor". You would also get tons of correction notices from players pouring into your inbox, and no quiz author wants to open their inbox to correction notices. Also, if your quiz goes online poorly written, and players rate it badly, you are not likely to see it played many times in the future. It will slip quickly to the bottom on the page and people won't even notice it anymore, let alone play it. Quiz takers want to play well-written quizzes, and in all honesty, they deserve to get well-written quizzes from the authors.

From a quiz author perspective...It's often best for you if you treat your editors with respect. They have tons and tons of experience playing and authoring on the site and they know what will be well received and will not be well received by quiz players. If you repeatedly send poorly written quizzes that take a lot of time to edit, your quizzes will drop farther and farther down the queue, and it will take longer and longer for them to be placed online. It's also a good thing to keep in mind that FunTrivia's editors are VOLUNTEERS. This means that, unlike a magazine or book editor who is paid to edit written works, FunTrivia's editors are spending their own free time out of their own busy schedules to edit your quiz. It's not fair to them to ask them to edit your quiz down to the last punctuation mark. It is up to the author to proofread the quiz for such mistakes before it is submitted for editor review. It's much faster for you to proofread than to have to play tag with your editor, and get the quiz sent back multiple times.


Originally Posted By: Tizzabelle
Like Looney_tunes, I'm not a movie editor but I do agree with everything L_T and jmorrow have said. I can't speak for any of the other editors but one thing I love about editing is when a new author presents a quiz which isn't quite up to scratch and I give them some ideas on improving it. Some authors take the ball and run with it, presenting a quiz that is now four times as good as the original. It makes this editor's heart sing a little.


I'm with Tizzabelle on this one. I recently submitted a quiz to Humanities, which seemed fine to me at the time, but it was sent back to me by looney_tunes. Two of her suggestions, were corrections that were very easily fixed, and that I must have skimmed over in the guidelines and forgot about when I was proofreading. These took me all of 2 seconds to fix myself, which is fine. Looney_tunes also sent me back a suggestion about rewriting my quiz questions so that someone less familiar with the musical could still have fun playing the quiz. I left the quiz alone for a while, trying to figure out how to reword the questions. I contacted looney_tunes to ask for suggestions, and she gave me some great feedback in return (notice this was just a note I sent, I did not resubmit the quiz at this point). I then decided that the only way to fix the problem that looney_tunes brought to my attention was to entirely reword my questions and interesting info. I also had to change some of the answer choices to fit better, and I completely changed one of the questions altogether. This took me several hours of work, but it was well worth it, and I am so much more proud of the work I did than I was on the first quiz I submitted! This quiz went online two weeks ago and got excellent reviews from the players!


Edited by kaddarsgirl (Wed Aug 22 2012 07:12 AM)
_________________________
This is not a signature...

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#817092 - Wed Aug 22 2012 07:22 AM Re: Fun Trivia - Is It? [Re: kaddarsgirl]
Mariamir Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Wed Feb 29 2012
Posts: 4258
Loc: Ontario Canada
Quote:
Secondly, why have editors if they are not there to edit?


An "editor"s job is not to edit your quiz the way you edit your essay, eg. spelling, grammar, punctuation. An editor is there to check content, and essentially to ensure that it is up to scratch and can get online. They do not sit in front of their computer changing spelling, grammar, and punctuation mistakes. The author should edit their own work for spelling, grammar, etc mistakes.

Quote:
I recently read an admission from a very famous writer that his punctuation and grammar was "not the greatest" and a big thank you went to his editor for making sense of it all and putting right his mistakes.


So, great authors, struggling authors alike all have their moments. That's true. However, the author did not say that his editor did every minute detail and corrected all the small grammatical errors. Pointing it out and leaving it to the author IS a way of "putting right" an author's mistakes. Editors on Funtrivia are voluntary, and they are in a higher position than we authors are. They aren't here to clean up after you and fix your mistakes, they are here to correct you so you can change your mistakes and learn from them yourself.

Not having been on this site long myself, it is possible that I'm not completely clear on editors' position, but one thing is for sure, editors aren't to be expected to tidy up after you. And by "you", I mean authors.


Edited by Mariamir (Wed Aug 22 2012 07:25 AM)
_________________________
Secret, shall I tell you? Quiz author at FunTrivia am I. Won this job in a raffle I did, think you?

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#817096 - Wed Aug 22 2012 07:25 AM Re: Fun Trivia - Is It? [Re: Christinap]
Chavs Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Fri Jul 15 2011
Posts: 966
Loc: Ireland
Hi Gazhammer,

If proofreading is not a strength, have you tried pasting your quiz questions into a word document and running the spell check?

It can feel frustrating to have work returned to you but any "rejection" slips I have received have been tactful and helpful, and I think we have to view the editor's role as one of support and guidance, helping us to make better quizzes rather than making our quizzes for us.

I speak as someone who has yet to write an acceptable question, lol!

When I play a quiz, the fun is sometimes marred a little when a glaring mistake appears or the question or the added information is not as good as it could be. It's surprising how even a small typo can undermine the credibility & fun of a quiz.

A finely crafted quiz is a joy to play, I am sure you agree, and I bet the most highly rated quizzes on this site all took several attempts and some hard work before they were published. It's just par for the course, not personal.

Even the greatest writers make typos, as you say, but the greatest OF the greatest writers spend months or years re-writing their work before publication!

Good luck with your quiz.

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#817099 - Wed Aug 22 2012 07:41 AM Re: Fun Trivia - Is It? [Re: kaddarsgirl]
jabb5076 Offline
Forum Adept

Registered: Tue Apr 24 2012
Posts: 179
Loc: Georgia USA
Gazhammer--Perhaps you are not really aware of how much time it takes to review and respond to the MULTITUDE of quizzes editors receive on a regular basis. You must realize they are not only editing for free, they also have actual lives, and their sole purpose in life is not to be at the disposal of every quiz author. And speaking for myself, as both a quiz author and quiz taker, I find grammatical and usage errors highly distracting, sometimes to the point that they inhibit understanding. You obviously understand what you wish to say, but it is only through following the rules of standard English that you can be assured your readers understand, too.


Edited by jabb5076 (Wed Aug 22 2012 07:42 AM)

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#817105 - Wed Aug 22 2012 08:07 AM Re: Fun Trivia - Is It? [Re: jabb5076]
reeshy Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Tue Aug 11 2009
Posts: 741
Loc: Glasgow Scotland UK           
I think the most important thing to remember is that a rejection from an editor is not a malicious, personal attack. Early on, I remember feeling put out by an editor's suggestion and it put me off writing for a short while, but I eventually realized that to the editors, most of us at the beginning are usernames to them; they don't know us personally, and so their judgment is based on what has been submitted, i.e. the quiz, and not who has submitted it. Their job is to uphold the excellent standard of the site, and sometimes this means giving a quiz back to the author what can feel like so many times, but ultimately I think fixing your own errors is the best way to learn, and prevents the same mistakes in the future. For the record, in that early quiz of mine, I took on board the suggestion from the editor, and the question was improved a lot and I'm happy with the overall quiz. It's not "editors vs. authors", but a team of both working to keep the site in high standard, and not at the level you can see on sites without editorial input.


Edited by reeshy (Wed Aug 22 2012 08:07 AM)
_________________________
Richard

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#817109 - Wed Aug 22 2012 08:17 AM Re: Fun Trivia - Is It? [Re: jabb5076]
skunkee Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Thu Oct 16 2003
Posts: 8913
Loc: Burlington Ontario Canada  
As much as I would have preferred to have this conversation in private, I expect you have been waiting to hear from me.

If punctuation marks were the only thing that needed changing in your quiz, I would have indeed made the changes for you. Since the quiz had to be returned for other changes, I chose to point them out to you because the initial request to check punctuation did not yield the required changes.
Instead of assuming you were ignoring me, I interpreted (rightly as it turns out) that you were unsure of what needed changing and I chose to point this out, so that future submissions wouldn't have the same problems.
If you stop and think about it, it took me longer to try and help you than it would have done to make the changes myself. What would have taken even less time would have been for me to simply repeat that correct punctuation was required and leave it to you to figure it out. I chose to try and help.

As has been already mentioned, we are volunteers and our job is not to take a rough piece of work and polish it up for you. Yes we are here to help, but a certain level of writing skill is expected. If you continue to produce quizzes that have that many errors (as has also already been pointed out) your submissions will slip further and further down the queue.

In regards to the I.I., in the first Correction Note I asked that there be at least some I.I. that supports the answer. For most questions you did this, but for a couple you did not. If you also want to add something other interesting fact, you are certainly welcome to include that.
Experience has shown us that questions that do not have the answer supported are ones that get the most Correction Notes. If a player answers incorrectly and is convinced that they are right, these few, sometimes boring, words might be enough for them to think 'oh right, now I remember' and not fire off a Correction Note which you would then have to deal with.

In future, please approach individual editors with complaints and issues and not go public with them. This is the first indication I had that you were unhappy with the process.
If you are not satisfied with trying to work it out, then do take it to an administrator or even the head editor of the category.
_________________________
Editor: Movies/Celebrities/Crosswords

"To insult someone we call him 'bestial'. For deliberate cruelty and nature, 'human' might be the greater insult." - Isaac Asimov

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#817137 - Wed Aug 22 2012 09:59 AM Re: Fun Trivia - Is It? [Re: skunkee]
gazhammer Offline
Participant

Registered: Tue Aug 21 2012
Posts: 16
skunkee - I wanted to converse privately, but your correction message disappeared when i sent my corrected quiz back.

I have since found(i'm new here and still learning what's what) that i can go back to your message via the "my quizzes - edit) option.

I shall now try to contact you via the "reply to player who sent note" option.

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#817154 - Wed Aug 22 2012 10:45 AM Re: Fun Trivia - Is It? [Re: gazhammer]
agony Offline

Administrator

Registered: Sat Mar 29 2003
Posts: 11619
Loc: Western Canada
As another editor, I just want to add a word about the editors' role here at FT.

gazhammer is correct that if he were submitting to a publishing house, it would be the job of the copy editor to find and correct all the little errors that creep into a written work. We don't have copy editors here - authors are expected to do their own proof reading.

Our job is instead to make sure that submitted quizzes meet the standards that have evolved over time here, and to give guidance to authors about what works and what doesn't work in an online quiz. Rejection notes are not personal, and everyone gets them. I'd estimate that only a couple hundred of the thousands of authors here have had their first quiz accepted with no revisions requested.

It's a little disconcerting, I know, for an adult to have his/her work critiqued as if it were the ninth grade all over again. Please remember though that we don't know you. We don't know if you are a successful professional or a kid of thirteen, if your errors are simple carelessness or an unfamiliarity with standard English.

We won't write your quiz for you, but our mailboxes are always open - please always feel free to discuss any aspect of your quiz with your editor.

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#817191 - Wed Aug 22 2012 11:52 AM Re: Fun Trivia - Is It? [Re: agony]
mehaul Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Wed Feb 03 2010
Posts: 5187
Loc: Florida USA
Edit: not an editor here, just expressing opinion as a happy camper in Lake Fun Trivia Day Care.

When I come across missing or misplaced punctuation It makes me have to re-read several times what has been presented and then make a guess at what the intended statement was meant to express. In untimed quizzes this isn't a problem you think? Well, just as the editors are volunteering their time (and sometimes fail to catch those errant commas) and their private time is valuable, so too do I consider my time valuable. I would appreciate not having to go over questions several times (my eyes start to hurt trying to read the meaning).
For your questions I would consider what has been said about proofing and using a spell check in a word processor to add greatly to your success as an author (who cares what some millionaire author gets by with, he's not here). And as to Interesting Info (I/I, please not I.I), try to provide what the category editor has requested even if you don't think it's that good. They handle the category and know what sells. Heed their advice or someone will knock on your door in the middle of the...just kidding there. Your example of the second choice actor getting the role sounds an awful lot like a copied statement not even humorized or prettied up in any way. Why did the first actor turn it down? What did the second choice bring to the role? Making a statement about going on to stardom is a celebrity I/I not a Movie one (imho).


Edited by mehaul (Wed Aug 22 2012 12:04 PM)
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#817346 - Wed Aug 22 2012 05:47 PM Re: Fun Trivia - Is It? [Re: mehaul]
ladymacb29 Offline
Moderator

Registered: Wed Mar 15 2000
Posts: 15421
Loc: The Delta Quadrant
Just a quick two points:

1. The quote "give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he can eat for the rest of his life" is true here. I'd rather teach the authors to use proper grammar, the differences between its/it's, and how to properly use question marks so the rest of the author's quizzes down the line will need little or no editing in the future. If I just make the changes myself, how is the author expected to learn?

2. You can always see the notes attached to your quiz if you click on the title of the quiz and then on the 'quiz notes' link. That way you can see the editor's name and quickly send the editor a note as well.
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#817406 - Wed Aug 22 2012 11:39 PM Re: Fun Trivia - Is It? [Re: ladymacb29]
shuehorn Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Tue Jul 04 2006
Posts: 2998
Loc: Lawrenceville Georgia USA     
Originally Posted By: ladymacb29
I'd rather teach the authors to use proper grammar, the differences between its/it's, and how to properly use question marks so the rest of the author's quizzes down the line will need little or no editing in the future.


Does that go for the difference between says and say's?
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#817408 - Wed Aug 22 2012 11:54 PM Re: Fun Trivia - Is It? [Re: shuehorn]
looney_tunes Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Tue Jan 20 2009
Posts: 2981
Loc: Briar Hill Victoria Australia 
Originally Posted By: shuehorn
Originally Posted By: ladymacb29
I'd rather teach the authors to use proper grammar, the differences between its/it's, and how to properly use question marks so the rest of the author's quizzes down the line will need little or no editing in the future.


Does that go for the difference between says and say's?

Also your/you're, plural versus possessive forms, and all the rest of the apostrophe catastrophe.

laugh
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#817409 - Wed Aug 22 2012 11:55 PM Re: Fun Trivia - Is It? [Re: shuehorn]
Snowman Offline
Prolific

Registered: Wed Oct 31 2007
Posts: 1580
Loc: London England UK            
I would echo everything that my fellow editors have contributed to this thread and add just one thing more. It is always important to remember that authors and editors work as a team to achieve the same objective. And that objective is to produce a quality quiz for players to enjoy. Getting there may not always be fun for the author, it may not always be fun for the editor but hopefully the final outcome is that the quiz is fun for the player to play.

Having strict guidelines and enforcing them is part of achieving that final outcome.
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