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#827373 - Thu Sep 27 2012 12:34 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: Terry]
surdoux Offline
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It is a remarkable site Terry, and is a credit to you and your team. Particularly as you all continually improve and extend the site without relying on a 'it will do as it is' mentality that could so easily have been taken. If I had a hat, I'd doff it.
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#827374 - Thu Sep 27 2012 12:35 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: surdoux]
bushidox Offline
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Loc: Missouri USA
First off, I have been using this site for almost a year now, and love funtrivia. Secondly, other than the global challenges, these Daily Challenges are the most exciting thing to do every day here. That being said, I registered for the forums for the exclusive purpose of my suggestion. Yesterday, my Difficult challenge was to score a score of 560 on Easy or Hard Hourly quizzes, specifically in the General category. I found out about the challenge at 7 AM funtrivia time, and checked to see if there had been a general category for either Easy or Hard already that day. I found out that the Hard had last had that category expiring at midnight, thereby not being eligible for yesterday, and that the Easy had been at 1 AM. The entire rest of the day, NEITHER Easy or Hard had a single General category. This to me seems extremely unreasonable and arbitrary. A couple of things as I see them.

1) Random is random, and sometimes a particular category may take a while to show up.
2) Not every challenge is supposed to be doable on a given day, frustrating as this may be.
3) If you were a gold member you would be able to change a challenge once a day and eliminate some of these.

However, making a challenge dependent upon a score, that was literally only available once, out of 48 possible slots is very biased. This would prohibit people in multiple time zones (India vs. US for instance) from having an equal chance in a day by making it inevitably during someone's sleep cycle. Even if you have to cycle through all the possible categories in a given day, can we at least offset different difficulties by more than a few hours? For instance, set the category rotation for Easy, Medium and Hard to be offset by 8 hours, thereby allowing for the possibility of completing challenges like this at least once every 8 hours.

I know that I am complaining about a single occurance, of what ultimately boils down to pure bad luck. But, by going with category offset times, you would greatly reduce the odds of bad luck happening across similar challenges. Yes, the challenge was tagged as a difficult one, but having to camp funtrivia's site every single hour for a chance of completing a challenge was a bit over the top. This goes back to your (Terry's) comment earlier of a challenge targeting a single quiz being a bit too harsh. In that case, you were referring to having to win a category (the Word Wizard Champions division was the example) targeting too narrow a goal. By allowing for more variation of the categories, my offset idea or something similar, you would eliminate this from happening again.

I appreciate all the great things the mods do for and on this site, and really like it. The Daily Challenge is a very good thing, and most of my other complaints about it are very very minor, and probably personal preference more than anything else. Please take my idea or something similar into consideration. Thanks.

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#827375 - Thu Sep 27 2012 12:39 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: bushidox]
kaddarsgirl Offline
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Originally Posted By: bushidox
First off, I have been using this site for almost a year now, and love funtrivia. Secondly, other than the global challenges, these Daily Challenges are the most exciting thing to do every day here. That being said, I registered for the forums for the exclusive purpose of my suggestion. Yesterday, my Difficult challenge was to score a score of 560 on Easy or Hard Hourly quizzes, specifically in the General category. I found out about the challenge at 7 AM funtrivia time, and checked to see if there had been a general category for either Easy or Hard already that day. I found out that the Hard had last had that category expiring at midnight, thereby not being eligible for yesterday, and that the Easy had been at 1 AM. The entire rest of the day, NEITHER Easy or Hard had a single General category. This to me seems extremely unreasonable and arbitrary. A couple of things as I see them.


There was a discussion of this by us testers in the other thread.

http://www.funtrivia.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/825682/19


Edited by kaddarsgirl (Thu Sep 27 2012 12:44 PM)
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#827376 - Thu Sep 27 2012 12:41 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: bushidox]
Terry Offline

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Actually bushidox, Wesley brought up that precise concern in testing and we decided to let it go and see how it worked out. So it's known that it might be an issue.

We could probably throw a 2nd (maybe even 3rd) category in there if need be to decrease the chance significantly of having bad luck.

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#827378 - Thu Sep 27 2012 12:44 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: bushidox]
salami_swami Offline
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Won't let me delete my post. :P


Edited by salami_swami (Thu Sep 27 2012 12:45 PM)
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#827380 - Thu Sep 27 2012 12:53 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: salami_swami]
Terry Offline

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Ok, I'm going to change that challenge to 3 categories, but increase the required score just a tad. So, it will be much easier to find an eligible game, but a little harder to score credit.

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#827384 - Thu Sep 27 2012 01:13 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: Terry]
Terry Offline

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Re: Crystal Ball daily

What are people's thoughts on me making it such that you complete it by either winning OR by making some number of guesses?

Maybe, 15 guesses made, which implies you dropped in for 5 games?

That way, there is a strategic/lucky way to win, and a perseverance way of winning.

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#827386 - Thu Sep 27 2012 01:20 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: Terry]
bushidox Offline
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Out of curiousity, which category did you add to that challenge type? If it is Average, wouldn't that always be Mixed, and therefore ineligible for the specific topic? Thanks for putting some thought into it, I was just trying to avoid frustration for others, as I felt rather annoyed that I had bad luck that day (not bad design, just bad luck).

As far as the crystal ball idea, I like the idea, but I think 15 sounds a bit low, I would vote for 24 or 25 as the number of guesses, otherwise anyone could get it in a very short time with little effort, and thereby reduce the challenge level. Just my thoughts.

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#827387 - Thu Sep 27 2012 01:22 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: bushidox]
Terry Offline

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"Out of curiousity, which category did you add to that challenge type"

Category.... as in, "General OR Sports OR Television" rather than "General".

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#827388 - Thu Sep 27 2012 01:22 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: Terry]
Terry Offline

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Either that, or we keep Crystal Ball as just a very difficult task, which I don't have a problem with. I'm hearing gripes on day 4 already though, so....

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#827389 - Thu Sep 27 2012 01:27 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: Terry]
salami_swami Offline
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I have no problem with that being a very difficult task. It's been mentioned time and time again, it is not meant to be easy... One should not be able to win every single challenge every single day.


If you do change it, though, 15 is kind of low. If you make your initial guess, plus your additional 5, that's 6 guesses an hour.


To keep it difficult, I'd say at least 30 (that would be playing 5 hours and having to make all six guesses each hour). Of course, it may take more than 5 hours to win this, because sometimes it will be guessed before :45.


But that makes it a bit more lenient, yet keeps it difficult.
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#827391 - Thu Sep 27 2012 01:28 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: bushidox]
WesleyCrusher Offline

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How about the alternative to match the first 4 or 5 letters of a CB word with a guess? Might be a tad tougher to check in coding but strikes a good balance between effort and a little luck.

A raw number of guesses could be too easily defeated without much thinking
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#827392 - Thu Sep 27 2012 01:28 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: Terry]
flopsymopsy Offline
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Crystal Ball isn't for everyone, and as a general rule I hate it. It is also quite difficult to get the word. However... since I got that task during testing I've guessed the word 13 times and am on my way to the next badge. I'd say people should try it out, you never know what benefits the challenges will bring!
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#827393 - Thu Sep 27 2012 01:32 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: flopsymopsy]
salami_swami Offline
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That's great, Flopsy!

I agree, people should try it. It's pretty awesome what one can accomplish if you think you're forced to play. wink


Wes' idea is good, too. smile
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#827395 - Thu Sep 27 2012 01:36 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: salami_swami]
WesleyCrusher Offline

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The 4 / 5 letter variant could actually be used to make a medium and a hard of it. Getting 4 is pretty easy if you get to the last minutes of an hour. 5 requires a bit of luck but allows a decent hit chance if you play 4-5 games.

The problem with winning is that it essentially requires to sit out the very specific time at the end of the hour multiple times, waiting for the right moment to strike. Many players can't adhere to this exact attendance requirement and thus have almost no chance at CB.


Edited by WesleyCrusher (Thu Sep 27 2012 01:37 PM)
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#827397 - Thu Sep 27 2012 01:43 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: WesleyCrusher]
Terry Offline

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Not a big fan of the 4/5 letter idea.... just doesn't feel like it changes the challenge much, and adds some complexity to the scoring.

Perhaps this is actually a case where a daily challenge for CB doesn't make sense and it should simply be removed.

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#827398 - Thu Sep 27 2012 01:45 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: Terry]
bubblesfun Offline
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Originally Posted By: Terry
Not a big fan of the 4/5 letter idea.... just doesn't feel like it changes the challenge much, and adds some complexity to the scoring.

Perhaps this is actually a case where a daily challenge for CB doesn't make sense and it should simply be removed.


Wasn't the idea of difficult to be, well, difficult? I think it is a reasonable challenge. For me, it is more realistic than being at the top of Speed Demon, so it just depends on your skillset. Which seems fair. Not everyone will win every challenge, right?
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#827400 - Thu Sep 27 2012 01:48 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: WesleyCrusher]
mehaul Offline
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On the crystal Ball guesses aren't there a total of 6 that can be made in an hour? An initial one in the first 45 minutes then the 5 bonus guesses. So three visits might be 18 guesses, Won't there be trouble (Ah, what you want, difficulty) if the word is guessed in the first 45 minutes all day? To get fifteen guesses you'd have to play all the normal awake hours of the day.
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#827401 - Thu Sep 27 2012 01:49 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: Terry]
kaddarsgirl Offline
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Originally Posted By: Terry
Not a big fan of the 4/5 letter idea.... just doesn't feel like it changes the challenge much, and adds some complexity to the scoring.

Perhaps this is actually a case where a daily challenge for CB doesn't make sense and it should simply be removed.


I had this one several times in testing, and only managed to win it once, and that was when I lucked out to be given the win when 12 other people guessed the same word. I had this challenge Day 2 in actually testing, played almost every hour, and still managed zip. I think it can be kept in.


Edited by kaddarsgirl (Thu Sep 27 2012 03:03 PM)
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#827414 - Thu Sep 27 2012 02:04 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: kaddarsgirl]
Terry Offline

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Well I'm not doing anything to it right now. It will remain as it is. There are indeed a number of "difficult" challenges which are extremely tough.

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#827415 - Thu Sep 27 2012 02:08 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: Terry]
kaddarsgirl Offline
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Originally Posted By: Terry
Well I'm not doing anything to it right now. It will remain as it is. There are indeed a number of "difficult" challenges which are extremely tough.


So true...like my one today that requires I earn a badge. I'm trying my hardest at the Achievements. I can so close in Mind Melt! Swapped two of the words in the final section. So close! I don't know how I'm going to do it...I will probably end up scratching it...
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#827419 - Thu Sep 27 2012 02:17 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: kaddarsgirl]
salami_swami Offline
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Quote:
Wasn't the idea of difficult to be, well, difficult? I think it is a reasonable challenge. For me, it is more realistic than being at the top of Speed Demon, so it just depends on your skillset. Which seems fair. Not everyone will win every challenge, right?


I completely agree.

My difficult challenge for the day is to be 1st or 2nd in the Mixed Game.


I am seriously considering using my weekly swap because I will have no chance at winning this one. I don't do well at the game.

So I agree, completely. We all have different skills and you're right, not everyone will win every challenge. So I think it's a good challenge as is.
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#827421 - Thu Sep 27 2012 02:22 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: salami_swami]
WesleyCrusher Offline

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I think one of the ways to solve the "I really don't like this game" might be to make the GM swap more accessible - allow more uses per week but attach a cost of one credit to the second use, two for the third... (still only once per day of course)

That way, everyone can decide for themselves which are their "absolute hate" games.


Edited by WesleyCrusher (Thu Sep 27 2012 02:24 PM)
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#827424 - Thu Sep 27 2012 02:31 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: salami_swami]
Buddy1 Offline
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If a change was to be made, what about just guessing the word rather than winning the Crystal Ball hourly game? That way, there is a more likely chance of winning the challenge yet it still remains difficult.

As an aside, my difficult challenge is to be 1st or 2nd in the "Who's the Smartest?" game (something I will probably not win), and I originally thought that was the challenge WesleyCrusher was referring to in the FAQ.
"In particular, there is one challenge using the Smartest game that may be very nasty if you receive it late unless you have already played regularly throughout the day."
However, after noticing salami_swami's difficult challenge, I'm thinking otherwise. I'm thinking the challenge in the FAQ is referring to something unique to "Who's the Smartest?" (or at least, more unique than just changing the name of the game and that's it). Then again, it could be it, and what makes this challenge "very nasty if you receive it late" is the fact that this is one of the harder (if not the hardest) hourly games. I'm thinking this challenge is a cumulative total points type challenge. I guess I'll eventually find out.

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#827425 - Thu Sep 27 2012 02:32 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: WesleyCrusher]
kaddarsgirl Offline
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I think the swap is fine as is. What I think is frustrating people with the challenges the most is that the game is new, and everyone wants to complete all the challenges. No one wants to miss out on the few points that make them lose out on being the first to win an Epic or the first to win one of the badges.

When we first started testing a month ago, I felt a similar way. I wanted to see straight checkmarks on my page at the end of the day every day. As we continued I became less worried about getting all completes and just completed what I could, skipping over the challenges I had no chance on (changing when I could, or just letting them expire). I think when the excitement of the new game winds down, and people settle in, they won't be so concerned about not being able to finish every single challenge. Afterall, the difficult ones were designed to not have a 100% success rate...


Edited by kaddarsgirl (Thu Sep 27 2012 02:34 PM)
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