To be a Champ you must at least be reasonably good -- it's not entirely a fluke, except for maybe certain Expert categories where everyone guesses.

The downside is it makes winning some Daily Challenges harder... the upside is it gives you better opponents to encourage you to up your game.

I say this as a generally low placing gamer in the Who Am I? Hard game -- yes, I knew it would be harder having won the monthly through playing the Easy variant, and yes, I knew I would be rubbish at the hard one. But I also know that I will improve over time, as I started out bad at the Easy version initially too. Positive out of a negative.

There is no reason to feel bad about being bottom of the Champs either ... think of it as a "worst of the best" type thing.

Thanks for that post, Malik, it was very nice. I completely agree with you. I especially like the "worst of the best" part. I'd rather be the worst of the best than the best of the worst.

I never thought about team scores. I've never cared about my team score (except on team games) and my team doesn't make a big deal about it, so that never crossed my mind.


I agree. I don't care about ELO, I'm not sure how it's calculated or what it is, and it wouldn't matter to me if it was deleted.

ELO It's a living thing.

It's a terrible thing to lose (to continue the theme).

To get back to reasons Champs continue to play - we enjoy testing ourselves. Winning the badges, though enjoyable, is not why I play and I played the quizzes before badges existed and continue to play. There are people I target, depending on the game, in the hope of beating themn. This rarely happens, but it makes it even more enjoyable when I do. Malik makes a great point there - the champions division is the elite and you should be proud to be in it.

To salami_swami from seadancer:

I did not suggest that we make the Champs Division easier.

I suggested that Champs who aren't performing well over a period of time might be automatically (or at their request) taken out of the Champ classification and moved down.
---Sea

BTW, I am under the impression that the questions asked in the Champs Division are more difficult than the questions asked in other divisions.
Is that the case? ---Sea

At least in most games, the questions are the same, the competition is more difficult. So you can get the same scores, but your name shows up lower (often, for me, MUCH lower) in the table of results.

This could potentially be very unfair, in my opinion as there would be nothing stopping front-runners from dropping down into the lower divisions and dominating all over again. They'd either need to slack for a little bit (which is completely doable with high ELO ratings) or simply ask to go lower.

In most games it wouldn't be fair though-- these people would have monthly badges signifying their proficiency in the game over a long period of time. Would it be fair to put some of the highest scorers back down with the first-timers?

Honestly, there doesn't seem to be any end to this. Earlier there was just one set. Then people started complaining that the top ranked players, mostly those who had been on the site for long, were winning all the time making the games frustrating for new comers. So we had the different divisions based on player levels. Complaints again started that players who had won all the badges were still playing and making it difficult for others to win the badges. That led to the Champions division - once you had all the badges that could be won in the game, you were moved here (I think this is true for all games except the Who Am I? but I'm not certain). Now again there is a problem with the ELO ratings.

My suggestion is to just ignore the ratings. Personally, my performance swings wildly in most games (except for Who Am I? where I'm almost always at the bottom), so my rating is at best average though I do manage to win games in most hourlies at least some of the time.

Even if Terry does make changes to address this concern right now, going by the past track record, there will soon be some other aspect that frustrates or annoys players. We'll just have to draw the line somewhere.

THIS!

I think this exactly. It ain't broke.

I agree - the competition in the Champs division is more for fun, as there are no badges to be won (with the exception of the mastery badges) for coming out on top. Otherwise, it's mostly bragging rights. Rejoice at the fact that you've been good enough to get into the Champs divisions! Relax a little and enjoy the games instead of worrying about the competition If you win, that's great, but you're still getting the points for participating, wherever you rank. For me, it's more a competition with myself, trying to get the scores in the game I know I'm capable of, rather than what the best of the best are capable of. Focusing on your own game might allow you to improve enough to beat those top dogs every once in a while, you never know!

We all have our own targets in the Champs divisions. In my case it's to get as many points for my team as I can and on those rare days when I contribute 200 points to the team total I am just as pleased as I was when I got the individual badges. In Expert though my aim is different - I like to get as many FT points as possible but I don't want to win. I'd rather keep the line on my profile saying I beat 153 other players than replace it with one saying I only beat eight. And yes, those are eight champions but it makes me feel better to have beaten 153.

Even if we attempt to "fix" this problem, a new one will arise. You cannot please everyone all the time.

If we were to rid of the ELO, or champs division altogether, I would not be happy; I like the champs division. Further, everyone would be upset once again for having all the top competitors back in their divisions.

Sometimes it's nice that all the players who never lose are put in their own division. I'd never win Expert if daBomb were in my division again.



I still think it's fine as it is.




Seadancer, I was not saying you said to make the champs division easier. I was stating a general statement to all, not to you.

I'm with flopsymopsy on this one (and many others too apparently). I simply enjoy the competition of the Champs categories I'm in. If I win, that's great (although rare), if I don't then I''ll try next time. I certainly don't stress about the ELO rankings. If I bring the Tim Tams can I join the comfy corner? (Forget Vegemite, Tim Tams really are a worthy contribution for Aussies to bring to the world palate.)

(I also share abechstein's feelings about 'Who am I?' - the 50,000 point badge for this one's definitely for the very long haul, as I rejoice when I get more than the minimum 30 points per day. But that's OK!)

Tim Tams? Did someone say Tim Tams? I'm in!

Tim Tams? Delicious. I'll take some. And some coffee, for a Tim tam slam.

They're manufactured and sold in the US too, btw, by Abbot'ssisyer company, Pepperidge Farms.

Though no American I've talked to seems to know that. Lol

Stop talking about Tim Tams! I stopped eating cake, chocolate, and biscuits back in the summer and now I really, really want to p.p.p.pick up a Penguin!

Ooh, penguin.

Have some carrot cake. Bunnies like carrots right? And you get some extra fibre

Get thee behind me thou temptress!

I do see the problems involved.

BTW, I must clarify here that I didn't mean that a Champ might be moved out of the Champ division against his will. He has earned the designation and deserves it.

But let's say that a frustrated Champ voluntarily chose to move down from the Champ designation. In that case, as someone said, he might dominate his new division. That doesn't seem fair either.

This issue sounds like a Catch-22. I'm sorry I mentioned it. LOL

Interesting conversation, nevertheless.

BTW, Salami_swami, thanks for clarifying.

---Sea

Is it time for a Champs division in Mind Melt? WAI was subdivided a long time ago. There are almost as many players every day in each game. Over 320 MM Monthly winners puts a lot of 'Champs' at the top of the sets, reaping the lion's share of MM points.
There are many who have a real tough time with this game, and never see the top 10 in a set, even on a good day.

Yes please! I would absolutely love a champ division for mind melt!

Put me down as a yea vote on that idea. MM really could use a Champs division.

Put me down as a "they must be out of their minds" - don't do it!

Yep. I'm crazy. Crazy like a fox! LOL

Call me crazy!

You're crazy.:D

I would like that, too!