I'm for it mainly becuase of the 50K badge, I know as an FMI guy that it would be unfair to put "regular" people in the same division as us champs. MM is pretty much just as difficult to master as FMI. if not more so. It 's VERY difficut for "regular" people to win a division against the vocab savants. I'm pretty good, but I'll never be as good as Rob (robert326), Trav, (klinsky1987) and Jack. (Da Bomb). It would be like a regular player playing against me in FMI. There's a good reason why Champs divisions are established. It gives the "regular" guy a shot, too.

Gosh. I don't think I've ever seen the word "regular" used so much in one paragraph that wasn't about bran muffins lol.

Another corner beckons?! lol! Oh dear, I guess I had better get comfortable in it. Maybe buy a beanbag.

Beans would make you regular!

I'd vote for champion divisions in Mind Melt but only because every other hourly/daily game that has sets and the proper badges already have it, this is the odd one out. Personally I never liked having hourly games having divisions, I was around when there was a time you actually had to beat everybody to get a badge and when you did it was quite the accomplishment. It's much easier for "regular" people to win most of the competitive hourly/daily badges because of it. Didn't mean to derail this with my rant, I do like the divisions in the daily games because they do randomly put people in them and everyone has the same questions so you know who's the best player for the day.

When I use the term, "regular:, I'm talking about those who aren't super-ardent-MM players (I mentioned FMI. I would be called super-ardent-FMI!) MM should have a special place for those for the super-good, just like in so many of the other games.

Achievement, Division-win, Monthly win (VERY hard for many!) and 5 K win (also super-tough!) Vets don't get the return now, but new players do. Vets play in a much-tougher division, and get less return It's easier for a new player to get a monthly MM than a vet now I f the super-vets are put in a Champs division, Regular vets can also compete Not as well as new players, but a better chance/

Pot Of Gold doesn't, and I don't see people whining about making that game easier for "regular" people to win. Ditto for the World Game. Anybody going to lobby for that game to be made easier?

The fact is that these games should not be made easier for anybody to win. Can't win something? Tough. I'm not going to win Tuesday or Thursday in POG any time soon, but you'll never see me asking to move anybody into a quarantine. I'd rather get rid of all champion divisions and let everybody play everybody the way we used to.



You would think so, right?

GM games like Pot of Gold do not enter into this discussion. This is about the MM and having it set up equally like all the hourlies and Who Am I. When newbies and those in the lower levels gain an unfair advantage by being grouped in smaller sets of players from the lower levels, they gain far more MM points than the vets. It's not about the wins, but about the point totals. See who leads the monthly standings. Look at the winning scores in sets 6-15 or thereabouts. If they can be grouped in the lower sets, so should the 'champs'. Or else have everyone placed randomly across the entire sets. It doesn't seem like a level playing field.

Why not? It's basically the same thing. People who have won all the badges should be quarantined like the other games, right? That's what I keep hearing when I read the last page of posts about Mind Melt. Kick out all the people who have all the badges and allow others to win or gain more points so they can win another badge.




You do know that the champs got royally screwed in Who Am I right? Is it fair that champs might have to wait years to get the big points badge and others it might only take months?



I agree here. Noobs shouldn't be winning anything big before a veteran. They should have to go through the best just like all the old timers had to. But this conversation didn't come up as noobs winning points. It started out by you suggesting the better Mind Melt players get kicked to a set all of their own because they are better than others and, rightfully so, they earn more points than them. Why should mediocrity ever be rewarded?

GM games do not have divisions. There are only a third as many people playing Pot of Gold as there is in MM or WaI. And the players are very equally spread across the sets. No streaming of newbies or champs.
My comment about newbies winning more points than vets was to add support to the idea of streaming 'champs', like they are in all the hourlies and WaI. If the newbies are kept in their lower sets in MM, then champs should be set apart as well. Either that, or nobody gets preferential treatment.

But you have all the badges in MM so it shouldn't matter to you, should it? You can play with the best and beat them as easily as the feeding off the lesser lights, right? The divisions were set up to give the weaker players a chance to win a few things. Not to win everything, but to have a chance against similar strength players. It's not happening in MM.

I think we should have a "Chump" division. I might even get a badge there LOL

POG is different in that there's no monthly badge involved. It's set on a weekly basis. Also, like World, it's a GM game, unlike the other games which have champs divisions.

MM has been around for over 2 1/2 years. I'd like to think there would be enough players who'd quallfy to make up a division or two. I believe the time for a champions division has arrived.

To clarify Darryl's point, The GM daily games DO have divisions, but they're not divvied up acccording to your Level. You just get one of 15 random group quizzes, regardless of Level. MM is based on a person's Level.

Sorry. Maybe I should have used "more casual", instead. One glitch in my writing also is I'll use a word more than a couple of times. I should have mixed it up. Thanks.

But MM's configuration is the same as the GM games. Random sets, not by level. While a Champs for Mind Melt sounds good for "regular" players, what about the Champs? As stated before, not all Champs are equal, and I for one would hate to be always in the same division as players like DaBomb.

So would I. That's why the call for a Champs Division. I've NEVER been in a division 1-20. If it were just random, I would be.

I'm voting for Jake's Chump divison.

I also think there should be a chimp division.

(This test is a 'limited-hold memory task', using a sort of photographic memory, a test in which young chimpanzees out-perform adult humans.

http://games.lumosity.com/chimp.html

It'll give you about 10 turns before it tells you how well you performed compared to the chimp. Good luck all.)

The main arguments are that the vets are punished because they have to play against the supers while the newer players get to pile up points against equally new players. The divisions are mostly Level-based, As a result, vets can never get the points to get a 5 or 50 K or even a monthly badge. Not to mention even winning a division. Other non-GM games have a champs division, MM has evolved to the point where it should have one as well

One more argument, the supers are punished playing the supers, too. Not all supers play equally, some are even "superer" than others. It's not fair for the "less super" Champs to be forever in a division with the "super-supers". There is probably no way to satisfy everyone. I rather think a Champ division would be a good idea, but still punishing on some players. If the divisions are indeed Level-based, then make MM like the GM games. Random sets, you might land in the same set as a very good player, then again, you might not. So vets, newbies, supers, all get their shot at winning a division and getting more points.

I hope that made sense...

I am fairly sure that they are not. I can't find anywhere that says that they are, and I was put in a set with lots of players who are roughly half my level, the lowest of which is 53.



You probably have been in a division with players under level 20, but you've just not noticed it. Unless you're telling me that every day you've ever played mind melt, you've always checked the levels of every single player in your division in the last minute (or at least last hour) of the day so no-one else plays after you look.

But even if you haven't, that doesn't prove much. Most of the people who play mind melt (or any other hourly or daily) will be above level 20. Look at WTE - I've seen hours where over 70 people have played in my division (the top one apart from champions) but only 1 in the level 1-20 division.

No, Dave means he hasn't been placed in divisions 1-20. Come to think of it, most high scores from high leveled players are put in divisions past 20...

It appears that players in divisions 6-15 have less than 5000 melting points; players in 16+ have at least 5000 melting points. I haven't found any other pattern.

There's a level 29 player in set 27 and a level 168 player with more than 50000 melting points in set 16.

They have less melting points because they haven't been around as long Still, they are garnering points at a faster rate than the vets, A champs division needs to be established. Period. I'm not backing down on this, Why? Because I know in my heart and mind I am correct.

Having a champs division won't get you more points, all it gives you is more of a chance to be beaten by a few who are really good at it with almost no hope of ever winning the set. If you want to be demoralised, be a very good player in the WAI champs divisions - you'll almost never win and as a result will get fewer points. It's better now than it used to be but even so, never winning is just as demoralising for champs as it is for anyone else. And now you want to spread the gloom to MindMelt which is a pretty depressing game anyway. Give it a rest.

I beg your pardon? I'm entitled to my beliefs. Don't tell me what to say. The fact remains I'm correct. Trying to shut people down only further proves people like me and Sabre are right all along. MM has evolved to the point to where Champs division is needed. It's pretty much impossible to win a division due to the fact all of the "champs" are in the vets divisions now. I find it strange nobody gripes about the Daily Game's champs sets. Why not do it that way?

Of course, over time "vets" who keep playing will meet the criteria to become "champs", even if they only get there through persistent mediocrity (which is how I seem to have reached champions division in a couple of games). They then will always compete only against superchamps, and never again collect any points, as currently happens in Who Am I. Because there are fewer sets for champs, as there are always going to be fewer of them than of lesser mortals, the competition is intensified. If everyone is spread out, you will by luck sometimes be in an easier pool, and sometimes in one with tougher competition.

But the Daily Game doesn't even have a Champ division.



Your point is that the veterans cannot win a division because of the Champs. Firstly, not everyone in every set is a Champ, with this configuration there will always be a set without Champs in it. You, I take it you are one of the vets you keep mentioning, are saying it isn't fair to the vets. Well, if all the Champs are put in their separate division, there will always be some Champs that will NEVER win that division. It isn't fair to them, either. As Mind Melt is right now, at least everyone has a shot at winning their division. Can you prove that the players who keep winning the divisions the vets are in are Champs? You can't. Just because they're better than you doesn't mean that there aren't others better than them. Q.E.D. Mind Melt as is is fairer to ALL. If you think that the Champs winning or losing has nothing to do with you, well, they still need to be taken into consideration as well.

Edit: exactly what looney_tunes said.

Maybe each game needs something like the hardcore system in the Global Challenge. Something optional. Added on to what we have already.

Those looking for a more competitive challenge can opt in once they have done their time in Champs or got the required badges/levels etc.

That might serve everyone best?

I believe the request is not to provide more or different competition for the Champs, but to forcibly remove them from competition with others. Making it optional would not have the desired effect. What is being called for in setting up a Champs division would be rather like saying that everyone who is Immortal in GC must play Hardcore.

edited to clarify an ambiguous wording