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#631332 - Fri Jun 03 2011 04:50 PM Dr. Jack Kevorkian
Nightmare Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Wed Jun 06 2001
Posts: 4515
Loc: Texas USA
He died today. He did nothing more than other physicians had done in life. It was the media, not him, who took the dignity of death away. What a man of principles.
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#631370 - Fri Jun 03 2011 10:21 PM Re: Dr. Jack Kevorkian [Re: Nightmare]
pitts0275 Offline
Learning the ropes...

Registered: Fri Jun 03 2011
Posts: 3
Loc: New York USA
Totally agree. Its a rare person that stands behind his/her ideals so strongly.

No matter where anyone stands on the issue he put in the spotlight I doubt no one credible can question the merit of the debate and exploration he put out there on the subject.

I do find it rather ironic that he himself seems to have died a common death for a man of average health in his early 80's (of largely natural causes), I keep thinking its like living in Las Vegas or Ibiza and taking a trip to Branson, MO for your stag party. Not that I don't see the largely wholesome attractiveness of Branson- as Homer Simpson once said, its like Las Vegas....if Ned Flanders ran it.

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#631456 - Sat Jun 04 2011 07:58 AM Re: Dr. Jack Kevorkian [Re: pitts0275]
rayven80 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Mon Jan 22 2007
Posts: 498
Loc: Ft. Collins Colorado USA    
I wish more people could have seen that he was trying to do the right thing. The blind devotion to life at all costs is wrong. The quality of life needs to be considered. RIP Doc, and I hope there's an afterlife where you are smiled on.
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#632742 - Thu Jun 09 2011 12:27 AM Re: Dr. Jack Kevorkian [Re: rayven80]
Jakeroo Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Sat Aug 30 2008
Posts: 2063
Loc: Alberta Canada
Most pet owners believe we do animals a favour when we "put them down" when they are suffering. So why do we make our fellow humans suffer for no reason? Yes, if you're a devout religious person, then it may be considered a form of suicide and thus an immortal sin, but I rather suspect that insurance companies have more input than they should (more so than other factors), simply because it gets them out of paying out policies. Sigh.
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#633973 - Tue Jun 14 2011 02:20 PM Re: Dr. Jack Kevorkian [Re: Jakeroo]
loveofivy Offline
Participant

Registered: Mon Sep 21 2009
Posts: 12
Loc: British Columbia
Canada    
I play quizzes on here often and do not post very often on boards, however since I saw this post I wanted to make sure that the person above who thought we should value quality of life and not just life for life's sake, and I know she means people who are suffering a great deal with perhaps no hope of improvement, I just hope she does not want to make decisions on end of life for anyone but herself. It gets VERY scary when others dictate of life/end of life for us. Many people suffer hideously but wish to remain alive, so please let them.

That's just a comment I wanted to make and I know it is a controversial subject, and I think there should be assisted suicide legally if only after long deliberation and the person continues to want to die at all times and has not got hope of getting out of their suffering. Extraordinary means to keep people alive who cannot any longer do anything let alone be conscious and make decisions is another matter, of course. It is best to discuss this with them previously if possible and it is a very dicey area.

I told my husband he needs to be sure and die before his life insurance policy of decreasing amounts goes down to 0 at apparently age 66, but he doesn't want to.

Anyway I try and stay out of controversy, but my own mother died recently and I have been looking after her every day for a year and she died as she wished, staying at home until the end, with her classical music, gardens (she could not do any the last year at all, we did it) and her dogs and she could not talk but wrote on white boards all over the house and although she suffered a fair bit she did indeed want to live, but as she entered the last 3 days congestive heart failure which could not be repaired and started to swell up and could not even get out of bed or dressed with assistance we took her to the doctor after I had spent a good and cognizant day with her, given her a manicure and pedicure to go to the doctor only, not to die that day as we did not know, she passed away, just collapsing at the doctor's office doorstep and went very peacefully, and the medics came but she had a card in her wallet and we had discussed that she did not want any major intervention as she could not be fixed and did not want to be in hospital for a life to die in there with breathing tubes etc. She was not euthanized and merely collapsed and died within minutes and they refrained from CPR etc. She of course was elderly and it is not the same perhaps for those younger who may benefit from future medical advances.

Everyone has an opinion, but sometimes it is scary.

I do not need to be in another country, drinking the finest wine and bungee jumping to want to live, but of course, you have your own interpretation of quality of life and I am sure we all have a right to our opinions and choices.

Michele

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#634004 - Tue Jun 14 2011 06:41 PM Re: Dr. Jack Kevorkian [Re: loveofivy]
Jakeroo Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Sat Aug 30 2008
Posts: 2063
Loc: Alberta Canada
Michele: Absolutely. I do not want to make decisions for anyone else unless I've been given proxy to do so prior to the person becoming ill in the first place. And I SURE don't want some insurance company, HMO, or any other "special interest" group making decisions for ANYone, especially when they have no way to defend themselves.

I just believe that when I am terminally ill and suffering, that MY living will (both my husband's and mine were written, signed, attested to etc prior to his brain surgery) will INDEED be carried out. Sure, right now, you have the right to say "do not resuscitate". And that's fine if you're not conscious. But many times (e.g. in the case of certain cancers or ALS etc) people are generally cognizant and linger on for days, weeks or months or more with no hope and lots of pain. If they're going to give me enough morphine to make me a vegetable for my remaining time anyway, then, quite frankly, they might as well go all the way much earlier than that.

This is only my personal opinion and I fully understand your statement and fully agree that your mother (and anyone else) should be able to choose how they'd like things to be. We usually don't get what we want in our lifetimes, but we surely should when we're at the end.

There is certainly a difference between pain and UNBEARABLE pain. And the only person who can judge whether it's no longer bearable, is, of course the person who is doing the actual suffering, nobody else.

I probably wasn't as clear as I should have been in the message above. I think I was trying to keep it short (because, as most folks here know, I DO tend to "run on" WAY too much lol). The bad part about keeping things short, of course, is that I'm assuming the reader knows where I'm coming from already, only to discover they thought something else lol. Entirely my fault.

Anyway. Yes, putting that power in the hands of an "organisation" (which could in some cases simply apply to a large greedy family as opposed to a corporation or government body) IS indeed a scary thing that should never EVER be allowed.

I appreciated your comments very much and I think you are a very brave and loving person to try to give your mother what she wanted. It's a hard road, I know.

~Jan


Edited by Jakeroo (Tue Jun 14 2011 06:42 PM)
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#634208 - Wed Jun 15 2011 12:10 PM Re: Dr. Jack Kevorkian [Re: Jakeroo]
loveofivy Offline
Participant

Registered: Mon Sep 21 2009
Posts: 12
Loc: British Columbia
Canada    
Thank you, Jan. Another thing is that people can change their minds and often do, as mother sometimes did want to die and also not to be a burden, but being with family we knew her and those times came and went. People have so many challenges, not of their own making often times and must handle them as they come and I suppose there are many different ways to do just that.

Perhaps doing it the old fashioned way of losing your life insurance benefits as you age which is how they did it oftentimes in the olden days as the younger ones had families and were more liking to have the larger work, caretaking, childrearing, etc years in front of them is the way to go, but so many are leaving very large inheritances and their children have such a lead what with housing being so expensive, it is hard to know which route to go, such is life I guess. I don't like the idea of people wanting me dead sooner than is necessary, and I don't THINK they do, but it does look promising at times I suppose, ha ha.

Perhaps talk again, because I run on also and sometimes realize I better not.

Regards,
Michele

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#635914 - Wed Jun 22 2011 12:01 AM Re: Dr. Jack Kevorkian [Re: pitts0275]
lindamarie23 Offline
Learning the ropes...

Registered: Tue Jul 03 2007
Posts: 4
Loc: British Columbia Canada       
Originally Posted By: pitts0275
Totally agree. Its a rare person that stands behind his/her ideals so strongly.

No matter where anyone stands on the issue he put in the spotlight I doubt no one credible can question the merit of the debate and exploration he put out there on the subject.


Absolutely!

And, whether you agree with the man or not, his work demonstrates how important it is that we communicate with our loved ones about what we REALLY want and the big "what ifs" of life. This stuff needs to be discussed openly and frankly. And often too -- my opinions aren't what they were ten years ago and they will probably change again but at least I know what I would want today (and so does my family).

Spare others the burden of making tough choices about you by making them yourself ahead of time. Put them in writing too so that they are clear. Today is not too soon!

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#834627 - Sat Oct 27 2012 11:41 AM Re: Dr. Jack Kevorkian [Re: lindamarie23]
Jazmee27 Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Tue Mar 09 2010
Posts: 634
Loc: Pennsylvania USA
[quote=lindamarie23 Spare others the burden of making tough choices about you by making them yourself ahead of time. Put them in writing too so that they are clear. Today is not too soon![/quote]

My mother and I have such conversations often, along with other pertinent ones due to her work in a nursing home
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