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#950967 - Thu Nov 22 2012 01:45 PM More information loss
gracious1 Offline
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Registered: Tue May 01 2012
Posts: 737
Loc: New York USA
I noticed another area of change, where the lists aren't as complete as they used to be.

The leaderboards for the hourly badges used to show A LOT more places in line. I'm not sure if they showed all 500, but they certainly showed the top 200. Now they only show the top 100.

For example, I remember that if I was ranked like #141 in the Easy Game, my name would be there. Now, it tells me that's my rank, but the list stops at 100.

http://www.funtrivia.com/hourly2/cumulative.cfm

Same thing with the Wizard game, and all the others.

Please make it the way it was before. It was interesting to see where all kind of people placed. Also, the compettion is so tight, it is difficult to make the top 100 on many of these hourly games. It is even more discouraging now that one doesn't even have that old list.

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#951022 - Thu Nov 22 2012 06:24 PM Re: More information loss [Re: gracious1]
dsimpy Offline
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Registered: Sun Jan 24 2010
Posts: 467
Loc: Belfast Ireland
I certainly agree that it's a shame to see the 'top 500' list reduced to 'top 100'. I presume that it's got something to do with saving system resources. As it is, in WW for instance, the last placed player (currently) in the Champions race is at No. 84. It's not inconceivable some months (in the near future) that they could fall outside the top 100 and not show up on the list.

I frequently scroll down to around 400 on the list to check on players who score highly in WW but who play very few games ... you know, 'just keeping an eye on them'!! ... I'm sorry if I won't be able to do that anymore.

Either way though, if it stays as is, the text at the top of the scoreboard which still says 'You are currently xth out of 500 ranked players' needs amending. smilee
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#951024 - Thu Nov 22 2012 06:39 PM Re: More information loss [Re: dsimpy]
gracious1 Offline
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Loc: New York USA
But the thing is, most people are NOT in the top 100, and have a better chance of hitting the top 500, and I think it would be better to let them see that.

I don't suppose there is any way of bringing back that top 500 list? The same people are making the very elite group of top 100, and it would be less boring to see a wider variety of names.

Please, Terry, bring it back. There must be some other way to conserve resources.

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#951053 - Thu Nov 22 2012 09:06 PM Re: More information loss [Re: gracious1]
Gil_Galad Offline
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Registered: Wed Nov 16 2005
Posts: 82
Loc: Greece
The 'You are currently xth out of 500 ranked players' has to stay as it is, because the top 500 players get ranked, even though only the top 100 show up.

As for a way to check them all, they could be organized in 5 pages of 100 players each. Page 1 for players 1-100 etc.

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#951914 - Tue Nov 27 2012 07:51 AM Re: More information loss [Re: Gil_Galad]
dsimpy Offline
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Registered: Sun Jan 24 2010
Posts: 467
Loc: Belfast Ireland
Mmm, this is a bit annoying. I've just gone to the monthly Standings table for the Word Wizard game to check who's ranked 499 and 498 on the Average 'score per game' Rank, and what their average scores are ... and they're not listed because they don't appear in the 100 highest point scorers this month. (Previously the table displayed all 500 ranked players.)

There are only two scoring aspects of Word Wizard I bother with these days - the ELO score and the Average 'score per game' Ranking. Now the latter of these has become harder to monitor.

Could we have the full ranking list back please? Or at least as far down as the 500 Rank Points mark? Pleee-ase! cry


Edited by dsimpy (Tue Nov 27 2012 07:54 AM)
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#952747 - Fri Nov 30 2012 01:34 PM Re: More information loss [Re: dsimpy]
postcards2go Offline
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It is a shame that the top 500 can no longer be seen frown
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#952801 - Fri Nov 30 2012 05:28 PM Re: More information loss [Re: postcards2go]
dsimpy Offline
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Registered: Sun Jan 24 2010
Posts: 467
Loc: Belfast Ireland
It's back! Yippee! Thank you Terry. smilee
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#957616 - Thu Dec 27 2012 11:36 AM Re: More information loss [Re: dsimpy]
salami_swami Offline
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Registered: Thu Nov 01 2007
Posts: 8555
Loc: Colorado USA
Not all of them are back yet...

The obscure game still only shows the top 100 instead of the full 500.

This is an issue now more than ever, because one of the top 10 for the monthly doesn't even crack the top 100! Seeing how you stand is extremely important when going for a monthly, so the list should most definitely be extended as soon as possible.

smile
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#957617 - Thu Dec 27 2012 12:01 PM Re: More information loss [Re: salami_swami]
flopsymopsy Offline
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Posts: 2977
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You mean monthly badges are now given to people who can't even get into the top 100? Can you get one for just turning up these days? tongue

Someone save me, I feel my inner Scrooge coming out!
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#957624 - Thu Dec 27 2012 12:41 PM Re: More information loss [Re: flopsymopsy]
salami_swami Offline
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Posts: 8555
Loc: Colorado USA
lol, yes, Flopsy.

I remember when it was originally that you had to be in the top 30. That was impossible, because so many top players always dominated.

Perhaps a new rule could be included, where you still have to be in the top 100?

Though I think it was decided long ago that eventually everyone could have the badges, because of it being infinitely awarding down the top 500... I don't remember, but I think maybe the top 200 isn't too much to ask, at least?
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#957630 - Thu Dec 27 2012 01:08 PM Re: More information loss [Re: salami_swami]
flopsymopsy Offline
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Hmm, top 30 wasn't all that impossible, I got all of mine when that was the rule - and trust me, if I can, a lot more can. While I understand that some leeway is required, I do think not even being in the top hundred is taking that leeway a little too far. People should be given something to aim at, and often it maybe slightly out of their grasp, at least at first - but if they keep trying they may succeed. Monthlies, by definition, should require application and effort. If they don't need to try, what's the point? It's like those school prizes given to every single child because little Johnny might cry if he comes last.
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#957632 - Thu Dec 27 2012 01:29 PM Re: More information loss [Re: flopsymopsy]
salami_swami Offline
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The top 30 is near impossible for most, Flopsy... To score in the top 30 in any of the games lately, you need to play 23 hours a day and score 10 in 30 seconds each time. :P

I think 100 is a good number, but because it was decided way back when to make it a bit easier as time went on, I suggested 200.

I would prefer top 100. Yes, it's easier now than it was at the start, but that was by design, though a top 100 qualifier would somewhat protect the badges earned from eventually becoming worth very little.

Long story short....

Top 30 is too difficult, that was decided years ago when the badges were made. Top 100 is, yes, easier, but still difficult for the majority of players, but gives us a limit so it never comes down to position 483 winning a badge.
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#957635 - Thu Dec 27 2012 01:34 PM Re: More information loss [Re: flopsymopsy]
zippolover Offline
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Registered: Fri Nov 16 2012
Posts: 5717
Loc: Norfolk UK
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Please do not do that. As I age, I am slowing down. My memory does not behave either. Speed AND accuracy is a virtual impossibility for me, so a reward for being persistent would be good smile
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#957637 - Thu Dec 27 2012 01:42 PM Re: More information loss [Re: zippolover]
flopsymopsy Offline
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Registered: Sat May 17 2008
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Loc: Northampton England UK      
I'm old enough to be Salami's grandmother - he beats me on speed every time but I still got a lot of the monthlies before he did. There does need to be some effort put in or the badge is just not worth having.
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#957639 - Thu Dec 27 2012 01:45 PM Re: More information loss [Re: flopsymopsy]
zippolover Offline
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Registered: Fri Nov 16 2012
Posts: 5717
Loc: Norfolk UK
So because I do not have the badges, I am not putting any effort in?
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#957644 - Thu Dec 27 2012 01:59 PM Re: More information loss [Re: zippolover]
flopsymopsy Offline
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Loc: Northampton England UK      
No, but it may take effort over a longish period... and really, what is the achievement if you can't get into the top 100 after several tries? People might put effort into scoring 1/10 but should they get a prize for it? There does need to be some kind of bar people have to get over or there's no point.
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#957651 - Thu Dec 27 2012 02:09 PM Re: More information loss [Re: flopsymopsy]
kyleisalive Online   FT-cool
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Registered: Mon Mar 07 2005
Posts: 5982
Loc: Toronto, Canada, eh!
There are a number of badges and badgelets which do not require a great amount of time or effort to get. Some you will get eventually and some will happen with minimal amounts of 'going out of the way'.

What would be a great shame is either making tons more easy badges or diminishing the value of some of our hardest challenges. Some will do this on their own-- it's only normal-- but there's a point their called challenges. I fought long and hard for some of my badges and they are, in my opinion, great achievements. It wouldn't really be fair to lower the bar to get them.

Some challenges are not going to be completed by everybody. Some people will not get a Lucky Duck; some people won't become Immortal; some people will not write a single quiz. Some challenges are going to be difficult for some people. They are meant to be achievements for those who are capable and who put in the extra effort. Scoring too low on successive quizzes is a fairly lackluster way of winning a monthly, especially when a lot of us put in a significant amount of effort. We're not necessarily going to be able to stop it; I guess it's IMO.
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#957681 - Thu Dec 27 2012 04:30 PM Re: More information loss [Re: kyleisalive]
salami_swami Offline
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Posts: 8555
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I already know I will never reach the top 100 for a couple of the games... So I will have to win these badges when it is down to 200th place.... But I'm still advocating for the top 100 marker because it just makes the badge a little more rewarding for those who win it. smile


And just because I am faster, doesn't mean I can get all the questions right. It also doesn't mean I can score well frequently. wink So speed isn't the only thing involved. I'd rather all right in 100 seconds than missing 2 questions and getting 25 second times. :P
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#957773 - Fri Dec 28 2012 04:10 AM Re: More information loss [Re: salami_swami]
rossian Online   content
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Registered: Sat Jun 10 2006
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Loc: Merseyside UK 
I agree with Flopsy on this issue. I had to win these badges the hard way, when everyone was aiming for them and you had to be in the top 30. Now I have them, I don't play the hourly games regularly and I can't be the only one, so at least some of the competition has been removed. I think finishing in the top 100 ought to be a minimum requirement. These badges are meant to be challenging.

I'm old enough to be Salami's other grandmother and I can't get anywhere near the 11 seconds some players get in the easy game, for example, but I can still get under 20 seconds and that's good enough for me.
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#957796 - Fri Dec 28 2012 08:31 AM Re: More information loss [Re: rossian]
Chavs Offline
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Posts: 1094
Loc: Ireland
I don't know about the difficulty levels of other monthlies except that I got my Word Wizard one much more easily than I am getting my Who Am I one so they fluctuate.

But I do think the Obscurity one is a little flawed. After my first few days playing I was 2nd on the leaderboard for the monthly badge, and even without playing every day I am still second. It seems that there's nothing I could do to avoid getting it. Maybe some badges have less people playing for them so could do with stricter qualification rules.

Incidentally, the qualifying score that hasn't made the Top 100 in that game is only 4 measly points outside the listed 100 so it's not as dramatic as it sounds. smile


Edited by Chavs (Fri Dec 28 2012 08:37 AM)

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#957805 - Fri Dec 28 2012 10:02 AM Re: More information loss [Re: Chavs]
salami_swami Offline
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Registered: Thu Nov 01 2007
Posts: 8555
Loc: Colorado USA
Chavs, the obscure game is less popular, and most of the scores are fairly low. That means that an average of 800 over 10 games is good enough for the top spot. It's just the unfortunate happenings of obscurity. wink


I realize some players had to earn the badges when it was top 30, which was difficult. But it took at least 4 months before the 31st player would win.

So, my vote is top 100. Not too difficult (as top 30 is dominated by the same players each month), but still difficult for most players. I will struggle getting top 100 in the remaining monthlies, and I view myself as an averageish player. So 100 is good. smile



And I would much prefer you two, Flopsy and Rossian, over my actual grandmothers. wink
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#957822 - Fri Dec 28 2012 11:47 AM Re: More information loss [Re: salami_swami]
Buddy1 Offline
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Posts: 817
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As I recall, the top 30 was not an actual requirement. Yes, in the challenge description, it did say that, but you never actually had to fulfill that particular requirement.

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#957913 - Fri Dec 28 2012 06:02 PM Re: More information loss [Re: Buddy1]
WesleyCrusher Offline

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Registered: Thu Sep 04 2008
Posts: 3946
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I would also favor a top 100 cutoff, but also still a bit more emphasis on skill over grinding. What I would suggest is that the score would be based on a player's (up to) 150 best games in the month, so you CAN get the badge or even come first with five games a day (still some serious dedication required - this needs to remain an element of the badge), playing more is still an advantage (since you get to remove your worst scores), but you can't essentially force the badge by playing 14+ hours each day with rather average scores. This setup would essentially mean that you can do well with 5/day and going beyond 8 or so would quickly give diminishing returns on the extra effort. It would also mean that you can't hurt your standing by playing - no more need to avoid a category you are not sure about in Smartest or Easy.


Edited by WesleyCrusher (Fri Dec 28 2012 06:03 PM)
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#957916 - Fri Dec 28 2012 06:06 PM Re: More information loss [Re: WesleyCrusher]
zippolover Offline
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Posts: 5717
Loc: Norfolk UK
I like the sound of that. It would stop players tailing off towards the end of the month too smile
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#957928 - Fri Dec 28 2012 07:47 PM Re: More information loss [Re: zippolover]
gracious1 Offline
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Registered: Tue May 01 2012
Posts: 737
Loc: New York USA
I am really opposed to the top 100 cutoff. There are too many people on here who are very, very fast and it makes it too hard for newcomers to get anywhere.

It was very discouraging at first, and there were periods when I gave up being here because I wanted FT to be fun and it felt like work.

The elitist attitudes expressed by several top scorers on this site leave me speechless, and that's no mean feat.

If Terry is interested in keeping this site growing, then the 100 cutoff will be a mistake that he will regret.



Edited by gracious1 (Fri Dec 28 2012 07:56 PM)

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