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#952645 - Fri Nov 30 2012 04:50 AM Overwhelming world recognition for Palestine state
dsimpy Offline
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Loc: Belfast Ireland
A truly brilliant result at the UN General Assembly this week saw Palestinian statehood on the basis of the pre-1967 boundaries recognised overwhelmingly in a 138-9 vote.

A great moral step forward - however limited in practical terms - and a significant international statement about the injustices perpetrated on the Palestinians by the state of Israel and its US Government backers over decades.

It's well past time to see movement to a fully independent Palestine state, and the long term stability in the Middle East that Palestinian statehood is a prerequisite of.

(Oh, and it'd be great to see a Palestine quiz in the Bus Ride now too!)
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#952725 - Fri Nov 30 2012 11:04 AM Re: Overwhelming world recognition for Palestine state [Re: dsimpy]
jabb5076 Offline
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I would love to see peace between the Israeli and Palestinian people in my lifetime.

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#952926 - Sat Dec 01 2012 11:25 AM Re: Overwhelming world recognition for Palestine state [Re: jabb5076]
sue943 Offline

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I think that most people would agree with you, peace in the Middle East in general would be wonderful.
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#953024 - Sat Dec 01 2012 07:54 PM Re: Overwhelming world recognition for Palestine state [Re: sue943]
lesley153 Offline
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There is already a "Palestinian" state. It was created in 1948. It's called Jordan.
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#953026 - Sat Dec 01 2012 08:36 PM Re: Overwhelming world recognition for Palestine state [Re: lesley153]
lesley153 Offline
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Interesting speech.

Peace in the Middle East
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I appreciate people who are civil, whether they mean it or not. I think: Be civil. Do not cherish your opinion over my feelings. There's a vanity to candor that isn't really worth it. Be kind. ~ Richard Greenberg

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#953028 - Sat Dec 01 2012 08:39 PM Re: Overwhelming world recognition for Palestine state [Re: lesley153]
lesley153 Offline
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Registered: Fri Sep 07 2007
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And an interesting presentation:

The history of Israel in a nutshell
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#953152 - Sun Dec 02 2012 02:32 PM Re: Overwhelming world recognition for Palestine state [Re: lesley153]
dsimpy Offline
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The most interesting aspect of the UN vote on Palestinian statehood is how it demonstrates what an international pariah Israel is.

On such a critical vote, Israel and its US ally could only muster support from SEVEN other nations across the globe.

What staunch leaders of world opinion did these include?

Well, there was Nauru - renowned for selling its UN vote on several occasions for hard cash (including recognising the breakaway states of Abhkazia and South Ossetia for $50 million from Russia!). Then there was Palau which once took $200 million from the US for agreeing to accept Guantanamo inmates. And then there were two other US economic protectorates, the Marshall Islands and Federated States of Micronesia. So, with the exception of Canada and the Czech Republic which both voted against, Israel's international support on a critical policy issue is dependent on the smallest and most US-dependant nations in the world. What an international embarrassment!

The whole of Africa (barring 4 abstentions) voted for Palestinian statehood, the whole of South America (barring two abstentions), the whole of Central America, the Caribbean and Mexico (barring Panama against and one abstention), most of Western Europe including Greenland and Iceland, and the whole of Asia (barring two abstentions).

What is abundantly clear now is that the principal obstacles to peace in the Middle East - in the face of overwhelming world opinion - are not the PLO or Hamas, but Israel and its US economic and military backer.
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#953193 - Sun Dec 02 2012 04:32 PM Re: Overwhelming world recognition for Palestine state [Re: dsimpy]
lesley153 Offline
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I am bowled over by the logic displayed here. Why do you suppose Israel is a pariah?

I'll give you a little clue. Arab propaganda, which leans heavily on the Nazi model. You can buy copies of Mein Kampf in Arabic, quite freely, everywhere there are books for sale. The rhetoric they use to insult Jews, even the graphics, are all lifted straight from Nazi propaganda.

Now consider the make-up of the UN. Impartial peace-keepers, the saviours of the world? or composed almost entirely of Arab countries or Arab sympathisers?
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I appreciate people who are civil, whether they mean it or not. I think: Be civil. Do not cherish your opinion over my feelings. There's a vanity to candor that isn't really worth it. Be kind. ~ Richard Greenberg

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#953196 - Sun Dec 02 2012 04:53 PM Re: Overwhelming world recognition for Palestine state [Re: lesley153]
dsimpy Offline
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Originally Posted By: lesley153
I am bowled over by the logic displayed here. Why do you suppose Israel is a pariah?

... Now consider the make-up of the UN. Impartial peace-keepers, the saviours of the world? or composed almost entirely of Arab countries or Arab sympathisers?


No it's me who's bowled over by your logic laugh Not many people will recognise your description of the 193 member states of the UN as consisting "almost entirely of Arab countries or Arab sympathisers" (which presumably, by your bizarre logic, would also seem to make the majority of UN states Nazi sympathisers or susceptible to Nazi propaganda)!! Paranoid or what, lesley153? grin But they do thankfully recognise the right of the Palestinian people to statehood, and recognise the injustice of Israel's prevention of that.

At least we both appear to agree that Israel is a pariah state. smilee


Edited by dsimpy (Sun Dec 02 2012 04:54 PM)
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#953213 - Sun Dec 02 2012 06:59 PM Re: Overwhelming world recognition for Palestine state [Re: dsimpy]
lesley153 Offline
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Registered: Fri Sep 07 2007
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Israel's not preventing anything. The Arabs (who decided in 1967 to call themselves Palestinians) could have moved into Jordan in 1948, but they didn't want to then and they don't want to now. Remember a summit with Bill Clinton and Yasser Arafat, that came to an end when Arafat stormed out?
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I appreciate people who are civil, whether they mean it or not. I think: Be civil. Do not cherish your opinion over my feelings. There's a vanity to candor that isn't really worth it. Be kind. ~ Richard Greenberg

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#953299 - Mon Dec 03 2012 06:51 AM Re: Overwhelming world recognition for Palestine state [Re: lesley153]
dsimpy Offline
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Loc: Belfast Ireland
Originally Posted By: lesley153
Israel's not preventing anything. The Arabs ... could have moved into Jordan in 1948, but they didn't want to then and they don't want to now.


Wow! No comment from me. smilee As far as the rights and wrongs of the topic of this thread are concerned, I'll let your words speak for themselves!
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