Rules: Read Me!
Admin: sue943
Legal / Conditions of Use

Page 67 of 93 < 1 2 ... 65 66 67 68 69 ... 92 93 >
Topic Options
#965109 - Sat Feb 02 2013 08:30 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: Terry]
nautilator Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Mon Jan 09 2012
Posts: 249
Loc: Pennsylvania USA
regular = games
gold = games + quizzes

As you can see, the equations are unbalanced.

Top
#965116 - Sat Feb 02 2013 09:50 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: Terry]
AlexxSchneider Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Fri Jun 26 2009
Posts: 234
Loc: Perth Scotland UK             
What you have available to play and what you can play in the time allotted aren't the same, though, and it all depends on answers correct, as well! I'm not dismissing your point, but I also find that I tend to amass points a lot more quickly by playing the hourly games rather than quizzes.
_________________________
Alexxandra

Top
#965128 - Sun Feb 03 2013 12:27 AM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: Terry]
nautilator Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Mon Jan 09 2012
Posts: 249
Loc: Pennsylvania USA
The difference is not trivial, even if you try to trivialize it.

I can and have racked up thousands of points in minutes from quizzes. It's much easier than waiting on the hourly games to roll over, especially when you can play a bunch of simple quizzes, rather than be limited to things which may or may not suit you. Not to mention having to wait around for the hourlies to roll over, which may or may not be reasonable for a person to begin with. I'm going to state it again:

regular = games
gold = games + quizzes

Top
#965129 - Sun Feb 03 2013 01:48 AM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: nautilator]
AdamM7 Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Sat Feb 18 2012
Posts: 529
Loc: Cheshire England UK           
Originally Posted By: nautilator
The difference is not trivial, even if you try to trivialize it.

I can and have racked up thousands of points in minutes from quizzes. It's much easier than waiting on the hourly games to roll over, especially when you can play a bunch of simple quizzes, rather than be limited to things which may or may not suit you. Not to mention having to wait around for the hourlies to roll over, which may or may not be reasonable for a person to begin with. I'm going to state it again:

regular = games
gold = games + quizzes


Yes, gold members do have an advantage. Same with the endurance badge, and previously, with the best in class one. But the real advantage here is for new players:

New players have not played any quizzes. Although they almost definitely won't be gold, they'll have 100 quizzes they can play, and they can play all the easy For Children quizzes. 100 quizzes with 10 correct answers (more points if they play in timed mode) gives you 15,000 points, with a bonus of 2000 for rating.

Then you come to challenges. A new player has very few challenges completed. There are a lot of minis you can earn in a single day if you're new. Each of those minis gives a bonus of 250.

Then games. New players have advantages in games. For the hourlies, they're put into the easy divisions. If they're reasonably clever, they should win every hourly they play, which gives them a point bonus.

With the rest of the games, crystal ball, and anything else you can earn points from, they can still play and still get those points, although they don't have a bonus.


So the best advantage for scoring points is being new, as long as you're also active.


Edited by AdamM7 (Sun Feb 03 2013 01:50 AM)
_________________________
"No, please don't eat me. I have a wife and kids, eat them" - Homer Simpson

~(_8(I)

Top
#965132 - Sun Feb 03 2013 03:24 AM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: nautilator]
Chavs Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Fri Jul 15 2011
Posts: 990
Loc: Ireland
Originally Posted By: nautilator
Can regular and gold members not cross paths in the point nemesis? With the quiz limitation it's essentially impossible for a regular member to win in such a situation.


I agree.

This arose early on in the thread, and as a regular member I defended the mixed-matches, but now that I have gold membership I think the match is too unfair.

Everyone has made good points on the thread, and it's certainly possible for the regular member to out-point the gold-member, but for the most part it's very hard work to do so compared to the relative ease with which a gold member can bump up points.

It's like trying to do the pole vault but only one of you has a pole.



Edited by Chavs (Sun Feb 03 2013 03:29 AM)

Top
#965135 - Sun Feb 03 2013 06:01 AM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: nautilator]
flopsymopsy Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Sat May 17 2008
Posts: 2706
Loc: Northampton England UK      
Originally Posted By: nautilator
regular = games
gold = games + quizzes

As you can see, the equations are unbalanced.


Yes, they are. And frankly, I don't see why not. I pay for my Gold Membership, it helps keep the site going and as a result those regulars have a site to play on. If that also means that I have some advantages over them then so be it, maybe it will give some of them an extra incentive to pay.

I've put that very harshly but I don't see why regular players should get the same treatment in everything as Gold Members, otherwise no one would pay and then where would we be?
_________________________
The Hubble Telescope has just picked up a sound from a fraction of a second before the Big Bang. The sound was "Uh oh".

Top
#965136 - Sun Feb 03 2013 06:07 AM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: Terry]
shuehorn Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Tue Jul 04 2006
Posts: 3037
Loc: Lawrenceville Georgia USA     
I agree with flopsy on this one. Plus, some days you can play a lot and others you can't, whether you are gold or regular. Often it just comes down to whether you have the time to play a Nemesis match or not. Any regular player who gets me in their Nemesis should jump for joy, as I usually barely have time to do my GC matches and team games before I need to do something else.
_________________________
Sue (shuehorn)

Top
#965137 - Sun Feb 03 2013 06:29 AM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: Terry]
rossian Offline
Prolific

Registered: Sat Jun 10 2006
Posts: 1562
Loc: Merseyside UK 
I'm also on the side of leaving it alone. Sometimes you'll get the advantage and other times you won't. I've had Australian opponents for Nemesis, which gives them an advantage, due to the time differences. FT day finishes at 6 a.m. UK time, which give them a clear chance to beat whatever score I've put up before I go to bed. I've also had a Nemesis opponent who had joined only a few days previously, was fourteen (or so it said on the profile page) and made me feel I was kicking a helpless puppy.

Deal with whatever challenge or opponent you get - we're not children in school expecting everything to be 'fair'.
_________________________
Editor - Sci/Tech

Top
#965138 - Sun Feb 03 2013 06:56 AM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: Terry]
Chavs Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Fri Jul 15 2011
Posts: 990
Loc: Ireland
I don't pay for gold membership to get an unfair advantage over someone! & I don't think it's childish NOT to want to kick a helpless puppy. frown

smile


Edited by Chavs (Sun Feb 03 2013 06:57 AM)

Top
#965141 - Sun Feb 03 2013 07:26 AM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: Terry]
flopsymopsy Offline
Multiloquent

Registered: Sat May 17 2008
Posts: 2706
Loc: Northampton England UK      
I didn't say that was why I paid but the advantage is a by-product and taking all advantages away from GMs simply because people who don't pay don't get them would itself be unfair. I don't think that being able to score more points because I'm a GM is unfair, and indeed the reverse of that, i.e. that non-GMs can't gather points from quizzes after a certain point is a key plank in the marketing of the GM feature. Regular players who get me in Nemesis can also jump for joy, with a bit of effort in games they can easily beat me most days, wherever they live. Of course there are some people who score lots of points daily, GMs or not - they're going to beat me too but that's life.

They're not helpless puppies being kicked, they're people who don't pay to be a GM for their own reasons. Sometimes making choices has consequences, this is one. Plus it's ONE challenge worth at most three points in an online game, there's always tomorrow.
_________________________
The Hubble Telescope has just picked up a sound from a fraction of a second before the Big Bang. The sound was "Uh oh".

Top
#965142 - Sun Feb 03 2013 08:11 AM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: Terry]
rossian Offline
Prolific

Registered: Sat Jun 10 2006
Posts: 1562
Loc: Merseyside UK 
The point I was making is that you can't make it 'fair', and why should you? Sometimes the games go in your favour and sometimes they don't. As Flopsy has said, it's no more than three points lost or won in any one day. I play against whoever I'm allocated, as I also play whatever category comes up in other games whether I know them or not. None of it is worth worrying about.
_________________________
Editor - Sci/Tech

Top
#965143 - Sun Feb 03 2013 08:17 AM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: rossian]
AdamM7 Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Sat Feb 18 2012
Posts: 529
Loc: Cheshire England UK           
Originally Posted By: rossian
we're not children in school


Well, by the sounds of it, that Nemesis opponent was. :P

14 year olds aren't all that innocent and soft. I wouldn't feel bad about beating them (in a game or a competition... not in the physical sense).
_________________________
"No, please don't eat me. I have a wife and kids, eat them" - Homer Simpson

~(_8(I)

Top
#965145 - Sun Feb 03 2013 08:18 AM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: Terry]
Chavs Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Fri Jul 15 2011
Posts: 990
Loc: Ireland
I agree with GM membership offering added value, and that advantages such as being able to score points are a vital part of that added value and therefore not unfair at all.

However, we are not talking about removing point scores, or any other nice perk, we are talking about balancing the odds more fairly in one small facet in one area of the site. Just the Nemesis game -- for the sake of fair play and a more enjoyable game for everyone concerned -- by choosing to match like-to-like (in the same way that hourly games discriminate by offering divisions!).

Other advantage/disadvantages in the Nemesis game are part of the game, part of the fun, part of the challenge. Most of those advantages are out of anyone's control.

But the suggestion is that the huge imbalance between GM and RM in this one specific challenge is entirely controllable by credit card or coding. If it's a coding difficulty then so be it (as you say it's just 3 credits and there's always tomorrow); but I don't believe that there's any intent to market Gold Membership as an easy advantage over another player in Nemesis - or anything else. That really doesn't seem to fit with the spirit of this site, from what I have seen.


Originally Posted By: rossian
The point I was making is that you can't make it 'fair', and why should you? Sometimes the games go in your favour and sometimes they don't. As Flopsy has said, it's no more than three points lost or won in any one day. I play against whoever I'm allocated, as I also play whatever category comes up in other games whether I know them or not. None of it is worth worrying about.


I'm happy with whatever way it's left, and with dealing with a little unfairness -- but I have some issues with claiming it's part of the gold member perks. wink


By all means market Gold Membership with the temptation of points, and of a greater variety of challenges, and of extra games, tournaments and badges. Yes!


Edited by Chavs (Sun Feb 03 2013 08:22 AM)

Top
#965167 - Sun Feb 03 2013 09:51 AM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: nautilator]
nasty_liar Offline
Forum Adept

Registered: Sun Oct 05 2008
Posts: 160
Loc: Sheffield Yorkshire England UK
Before I resumed my Gold last month, whenever I got Nemesis I just didn't even bother if my opponent was a) Gold and B) had scored over 5000 points the day before. Can't win 'em all I say.

I got another impossible one yesterday, get a word on the crystal ball... yeah right!

Top
#965171 - Sun Feb 03 2013 10:07 AM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: Terry]
kyleisalive Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Mon Mar 07 2005
Posts: 5756
Loc: Toronto, Canada, eh!
Quote:
I got another impossible one yesterday, get a word on the crystal ball... yeah right!


That's my auto-swap. wink
_________________________
Senior FT Editor (Video Games, Television, Music, and Entertainment)
Chat Board Moderator (Author's Lounge)
Amazing Trivia Race Taskmaster/Commission Hander-Outer

Top
#965172 - Sun Feb 03 2013 10:17 AM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: kyleisalive]
nasty_liar Offline
Forum Adept

Registered: Sun Oct 05 2008
Posts: 160
Loc: Sheffield Yorkshire England UK
Don't blame you!

I'd already used my swap to get rid of one earlier in the week that I didn't want to do but of course I should've realised that I would wind up getting one that I am not very capable of getting.

Top
#965194 - Sun Feb 03 2013 12:31 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: Terry]
TimBentley Offline
Explorer

Registered: Mon Apr 09 2012
Posts: 82
Loc: Indiana USA
Theoretically, a regular member can get more than 2000 points from daily games (counting quick quiz, not including the monster perk, since they could get nemesis twice in a week, and not including GC in case it's not going on), and more than 1800 points per hour from hourly games (not counting instaquiz).

Whether my opponent is gold or regular doesn't matter as much as how much time they put into it. I think most of my nemesis opponents have scored less than 2000 points.


Edited by TimBentley (Sun Feb 03 2013 12:31 PM)

Top
#965199 - Sun Feb 03 2013 01:10 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: kyleisalive]
malik24 Offline
Explorer

Registered: Fri Sep 14 2007
Posts: 96
Loc: Somerset UK
Originally Posted By: kyleisalive
Quote:
I got another impossible one yesterday, get a word on the crystal ball... yeah right!


That's my auto-swap. wink


Me too, but I've had it three times this week (yeah, what luck!). It's the only challenge I've never won. Well, other than the ones I've never had.

I don't think blues are helpless v Golds in Nemesis at all. Similarly low levels CAN beat high levels. But I do see the argument -- I can see why it would be dissuading for a low to meet a high and a blue to meet a Gold. Yet a lot of those problems are psychological rather than actually material... if someone really, really wants to win that challenge? Most of the time, they can make it happen, blue, gold, high, low, whatever.

(But I can see why it could be offputting)

Top
#965201 - Sun Feb 03 2013 01:28 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: Terry]
Starlord Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Sat Apr 26 2008
Posts: 762
Loc: Cornwall UK
A lot of the time I don't bother with Nemesis - Expert, I'm still trying to get the Jack of All Trades badge, 1 more win needed and Nemesis tends to interfere with that so unless the catagories fall right I just don't bother with Nemesis. As for Crystal Ball I gave up with that long ago after just missing out so many times with a different spelling of the word when no-one else got it, sometimes I'd have the English version and it would be the American and vice-versa. Missed out on the word quite a few times by fractions of a second to someone else who got there before me as well.

Top
#965206 - Sun Feb 03 2013 02:46 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: Starlord]
AdamM7 Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Sat Feb 18 2012
Posts: 529
Loc: Cheshire England UK           
Originally Posted By: Starlord
A lot of the time I don't bother with Nemesis - Expert, I'm still trying to get the Jack of All Trades badge, 1 more win needed and Nemesis tends to interfere with that so unless the catagories fall right I just don't bother with Nemesis.


We're talking about the challenge where you have to score more points than your opponent. I think you're talking about the challenge against another player where you have to get the top score in expert with a max of 4 scores.
_________________________
"No, please don't eat me. I have a wife and kids, eat them" - Homer Simpson

~(_8(I)

Top
#965269 - Sun Feb 03 2013 11:07 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: Terry]
AlexxSchneider Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Fri Jun 26 2009
Posts: 234
Loc: Perth Scotland UK             
Many days you can easily beat me in Nemesis - I often don't have time to play enough to beat the other player. In that case, my GM standing and any other standing doesn't even matter. I really think it should be left as it is. They are supposed to be challenging, anyway, and I wouldn't automatically assume that I'm going to beat a non-GM, and non-GMs shouldn't assume they will lose to a GM.
_________________________
Alexxandra

Top
#965270 - Sun Feb 03 2013 11:13 PM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: Terry]
salami_swami Offline
Forum Champion

Registered: Thu Nov 01 2007
Posts: 8236
Loc: Colorado USA
There are players who gets fifteen thousand points a day as regular members. If they were my nemesis, I wouldn't stand a chance, even though I'm gold.


Also, if you were to make it "fair", as some stated, by making only gold a nemesis with gold, and regular wth regular, at what point would you draw the line of fairness?

Theoretically, you could get a gold member who has played 4 quizzes paired up with Kabdanis, who has played every single quiz online.

Surely That would equate to the same level as a regular member being pitted against a gold member.


I also believe that if one cares enough to not be pitted against a gold member because they cannot beat them I implore them to buy gold themselves. One more perk on the list of perks.

I, too, woud keep it as it is.


Edited by salami_swami (Sun Feb 03 2013 11:14 PM)
Edit Reason: Silly iPad typos
_________________________
"The only water in the forest is the River."

Top
#965287 - Mon Feb 04 2013 12:57 AM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: rossian]
nautilator Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: Mon Jan 09 2012
Posts: 249
Loc: Pennsylvania USA
Originally Posted By: salami_swami
Also, if you were to make it "fair", as some stated, by making only gold a nemesis with gold, and regular wth regular, at what point would you draw the line of fairness?

This is not as complicated as you want it to be. Fair is nothing more than giving two people the same tools and seeing who does better with them. Gold members get an extra tool for this challenge: quizzes. If giving people more for being gold IS fair, then would you agree that gold members should get 6 shots at an expert nemesis while non-gold ones stay at 4?

Originally Posted By: flopsymopsy
Yes, they are. And frankly, I don't see why not.

Originally Posted By: rossian
The point I was making is that you can't make it 'fair', and why should you?

Wow. I'm gold, and I brought this up on behalf of a non-gold friend who doesn't see this as fair. He didn't even want to bring it up because he says that they don't listen to non-gold people on the feedback forums. Turns out he was right, several times over. Oh well, I did get my answer.


Edited by nautilator (Mon Feb 04 2013 01:04 AM)
Edit Reason: missed a word

Top
#965298 - Mon Feb 04 2013 01:43 AM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: Terry]
looney_tunes Online   content
Multiloquent

Registered: Tue Jan 20 2009
Posts: 3084
Loc: Briar Hill Victoria Australia 
As a gold member, I should have an advantage, because I can play and count quizzes. Of course, that presupposes that I have time to do so. Most days I play the Daily games and a few rounds of hourly games to get points for my team, then just Word Wizard to grab a letter once an hour if I can find the time. My average daily total is about 8,000 points from these activities - and it could be significantly more if I had time to be here during the working day. Games rack up points faster than quizzes, especially if you have already played most of the quizzes about which you know anything, and can't get any more points from them. I actually find I can get nice points from the Quizbot quizzes, and I think non-GM players can access those.

The real difference is not between GM and non-GM, but between players with a lot of time and those with limited time. A non-GM with plenty of time could beat me hands down most days.
_________________________
(Editor in Humanities, Literature and Books For Children)
That's all, folks!

Top
#965301 - Mon Feb 04 2013 01:55 AM Re: Daily Challenge Bugs & Questions [Re: Terry]
Anton Offline
Mainstay

Registered: Sat May 03 2008
Posts: 920
Loc: California USA
I was a regular member for a little bit recently, and I drew the nemesis against a gold member. Didn't bother me one bit. Luck of the draw.

Top
Page 67 of 93 < 1 2 ... 65 66 67 68 69 ... 92 93 >

Moderator:  Terry