Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div?

Posted by: Terry

Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Wed Jun 12 2013 01:14 PM

For players with the "won your division" and mega badge? (so the harder competition is no extra burden on them). Thoughts?
Posted by: WesleyCrusher

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Wed Jun 12 2013 01:28 PM

I like the idea of champs games for those who attained everything, but should maybe Champs be a slight variant of the game, similar to WaI where Champs always only play hard? I could imagine 15 items per set, 75 or 80 per correct answer instead of the usual 100. There is a higher maximum potential, but this is offset by the longer time needed and the higher chance to go wrong.

This way, playing Champ would also be a reward, not just a burden - and with the modified score, any Mind Melt scores for stage games / challenges should remain comparably difficult when looking at the 2400-2800 range.

Thoughts from other pro Mind Melters?
Posted by: WesleyCrusher

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Wed Jun 12 2013 01:29 PM

While we're at it - can we adjust WaI Champ mode to look at the 50,000 Whozit badge instead of the 5,000 one? Maybe those between 5k and 50k could play in a semi-champ level against their own peers.
Posted by: Tizzabelle

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Wed Jun 12 2013 01:34 PM

If MM champs could only play in Difficult mode, would that negate the MM Daily Challenge which asks for X answers in any mode? This is what happens when I play WAI. I might be allowed to play in any mode for the challenge, but I seem to only be able to play in Timed mode.
Posted by: WesleyCrusher

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Wed Jun 12 2013 01:39 PM

Actually, the X answers challenge would likely be a freebie for a few times until it has adapted. In my hypothetical difficult mode, you can have up to 45 correct, so initially, 28 to 30 should be easy pie. Of course once you played a few times, it will adjust upwards to reflect your champ mode skill level.
Posted by: looney_tunes

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Wed Jun 12 2013 01:54 PM

Wes, how would the scoring for team points be affected by your proposed modification? It's too early in the morning for me to think it through carefully. I play the game because I love it, and pit myself against the game, not against other players. The satisfaction of working it out would be even greater with more items to sort, but since I am already rather slow and rely on getting all 30 right (usually in 180-200 seconds) to have a good ranking and score for the team, I wouldn't want to see my slowness result in a lesser contribution to my team's score. How would 45 right in 270-300 seconds score as compared to what I now can expect to get?
Posted by: salami_swami

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Wed Jun 12 2013 02:03 PM

And what kind of score would daBomb's 45 in 130 seconds be? wink
Posted by: WesleyCrusher

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Wed Jun 12 2013 02:04 PM

Actually, with 45 in 300, you'd beat a 30/200.

45 x 75 = 3375, less 600 = 2775.
30 x 100 = 3000, less 400 = 2600.

With the higher difficulty (more similar words to contend with), you might count on getting two wrong, so

43 x 75 = 3225, less 600 = 2625.

Scores for most players (except for the absolute top) should thus remain in the same range or actually increase a bit.

(BTW: I'm retracting the 80. It would overinflate the champ score. 75 is sweet-spot.)
Posted by: WesleyCrusher

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Wed Jun 12 2013 02:07 PM

45 x 75 = 3375, less 260 = 3115. Although I'd rather estimate 150-170 seconds (it's not a linear increase in time since you not only need to play more words but also scan more answers for each), so just over 3000.
Posted by: salami_swami

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Wed Jun 12 2013 02:12 PM

I don't think I like the idea of Champs having a completely different game than the rest. I'd keep it at 30 questions, personally.
Posted by: Terry

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Wed Jun 12 2013 02:15 PM

Yeah, keeping it simple. If we mess with other requirements, it complicates daily challenges, ascension stuff, etc etc. I'm just talking about moving those who have done it all away from the noobs.
Posted by: salami_swami

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Wed Jun 12 2013 02:21 PM

Which is wonderful! Some of us can score 30 in 130 seconds and still get 12th place. Depressing sometimes. wink
Posted by: WesleyCrusher

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Wed Jun 12 2013 02:23 PM

It was an idea to maybe increase interest in a champ game - I don't know if it could be made optional, but I'd like to play larger and thus tougher sets sometimes (some 10-sets can be solved by pure linguistics without any actual vocabulary knowledge: Pair the only adverbs, pair the only verbs, then identify the bone and drug by ending, and so on).

Larger groups could make this less frequent.
Posted by: WesleyCrusher

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Wed Jun 12 2013 02:27 PM

My one gripe with standard champ games is they are strictly a disadvantage for champs (Lower placings) while not offering anything cool in return. They're great for the non-champs (who are the majority of players, so it's good to have them),but less so for those who won it all. Of course we could also alleviate this with a badge or two specifically for champs.

How about "Champ of Champs": Any top 10 place in a champs division (over all games) gets you some points, using the Formula 1 grid of 25-18-15-12-10-8-6-4-2-1, dailies double the amount. Catch 10,000 Champ points to win.

(This counts ALL Champion play, hourly and daily, even Expert. If you play Champ and get top 10, you score.)
Posted by: Terry

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Wed Jun 12 2013 02:32 PM

I like the idea of giving champs some incentive to be champs.
Posted by: salami_swami

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Wed Jun 12 2013 02:32 PM

If we were to do that with Mind Melt, though, wouldn't we have to put a badge or two in EVERY champs game, for fairness? I think that's adding a lot of unnecessary badges (as much as I'd LOVE to win the easy game one). wink
Posted by: Terry

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Wed Jun 12 2013 02:34 PM

No, it would be a single badge (or two), where all of the different champ divisions help you get to the reward.
Posted by: salami_swami

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Wed Jun 12 2013 02:37 PM

Oh, oh, oh, gotchya.

Then that sounds great. laugh
Posted by: WesleyCrusher

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Wed Jun 12 2013 02:42 PM

Yes, that was the idea. You want to be in as many champ games as you can to accelerate towards this badge, but you can get your first points even with one single measly expert win to your name (and thus get hooked for more smile )

Making it span all champs divisions keeps the number of badges under control and yet makes any additional champs rank something good to have since it will help you onward.
Posted by: abechstein

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Wed Jun 12 2013 04:22 PM

I think it's a great idea to do something for champs rather than just sequestering us from the game and having us beat each other up (viz. Daily Game sets 11 & 12). I like the idea of Champ Points as outlined -- at least there's some benefit for continuing to play games where all the badges have been won.
Posted by: Tizzabelle

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Wed Jun 12 2013 04:27 PM

Love the Champ of Champs badge. I find myself fairly goal driven on FT so I love having something to work towards smile
Posted by: looney_tunes

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Wed Jun 12 2013 05:32 PM

And I love the idea that I can just keep playing the games I love (and the ones I play for team points) and eventually get there. smile
Posted by: gracious1

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Wed Jun 12 2013 08:53 PM

Originally Posted By: WesleyCrusher

How about "Champ of Champs": Any top 10 place in a champs division (over all games) gets you some points, using the Formula 1 grid of 25-18-15-12-10-8-6-4-2-1, dailies double the amount. Catch 10,000 Champ points to win.


Could you rephrase this? Can't parse. Thanks.
Posted by: bubblesfun

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Wed Jun 12 2013 09:17 PM

I love the idea, and it is certainly time. But, I fully encourage having the 50,000 badge be part of the criteria. A lot of us got a bit screwed in WAI with having all of the rest of the badges and bumped to Champions, while others not winning the badges specifically as to get to the 50,000 badge before having to deal with the Champion group. It really has been a bit frustrating.
Posted by: eyhung

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Wed Jun 12 2013 09:26 PM

Agree 100% with all of Wes's posts. And please include the 50,000 badge as part of the criteria.
Posted by: looney_tunes

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Wed Jun 12 2013 10:08 PM

Originally Posted By: gracious1
Originally Posted By: WesleyCrusher

How about "Champ of Champs": Any top 10 place in a champs division (over all games) gets you some points, using the Formula 1 grid of 25-18-15-12-10-8-6-4-2-1, dailies double the amount. Catch 10,000 Champ points to win.


Could you rephrase this? Can't parse. Thanks.

The suggestion is that first place gets 25 points, second gets 18, down to tenth place getting one point. That is suggested to apply for the hourly games, with twice as many points allocated for the daily games, which you cannot play nearly as often to garner your points.
Posted by: reeshy

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Thu Jun 13 2013 08:43 AM

I really like this Champs idea. smile

(Plus, another vote for all Champs divisions to require the 50K megabadge :P)
Posted by: ssabreman

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Thu Jun 13 2013 10:10 AM

Originally Posted By: Terry
For players with the "won your division" and mega badge? (so the harder competition is no extra burden on them). Thoughts?


I'm sure you meant to include the Monthly as well, in being a factor for the Champs division.
Posted by: lorance79

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Thu Jun 13 2013 11:05 PM

I think a champion Mind Melt division as in other games is only fair.

And I really like the Champ of Champs idea. Although for some reason, the name doesn't gel with me. Meta-Champ?
Posted by: salami_swami

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Thu Jun 13 2013 11:14 PM

We could call it Tournament of Champions, and the badge is Grand Champion? Something along those lines perhaps.
Posted by: Ghosttowner

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Thu Jun 13 2013 11:50 PM

Would you also have to have the monthly Mind Melt badge too before entering the Champs Division?
Posted by: nautilator

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Sat Jun 15 2013 12:40 PM

If you're altering MM a bit, how about adding in the 20-point floor for timed games to it?
Posted by: gracious1

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Sat Jun 15 2013 03:32 PM

Originally Posted By: ssabreman
Originally Posted By: Terry
For players with the "won your division" and mega badge? (so the harder competition is no extra burden on them). Thoughts?


I'm sure you meant to include the Monthly as well, in being a factor for the Champs division.


Yes, it makes sense it should require that all five Mind-Melt badges be won to become a Champion.
Posted by: cubswin2323

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Sat Jun 15 2013 08:54 PM

Yes. The game's been around over 3 years. There are enough players to support two, if not, three divisions. Just be sure they have 50K badge, too. I'd hate to see a repeat of the WAI debacle.
Posted by: crusafontia

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Sun Jun 16 2013 09:25 AM

I was thinking of a promotion/relegation system for divisions similar to what they use in soccer leagues. Top three players in each division get promoted (top 3 finishers in the top champions' division would earn a badge of course, perhaps with an extra tag denoting times won if won multiple times.) and the bottom three finishers are relegated.

The game itself would remain the same, but competition/participation incentives would be maintained for all players overall and within divisions themselves throughout the month. For example, first place may be out of reach, but participation/playing well would be necessary to avoid relegation.
Posted by: Chavs

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Tue Jun 18 2013 04:34 AM

(Confession: I am hesitant to see any changes whatsoever to the current Mind Melt set up. It's my favourite game on the site and you can bet that I have had a strange day if I haven't played it. And I think it's perfect the way it is! smile )


That said, if changes and tweaks are being made, can I put in a plea that if a new version of the game is made as a reward for champs then there should still be an option for the champs to play the original game, albeit in a division of their own. It would be a shame for fans to lose a game just because they like playing it.

And if Wes's idea for a new, more stretching version of the game is not being used as the new Champ division game, might it be a good idea to develop the idea as a Gold Member perk - the Mind Melt Gold edition? or as Level Perk/Bonus or a Champ Perk - not as a replacement but an added extra game like Pot of Gold etc.

I think Mind Melt fans would relish a second and different game. As long as I am never forced out of playing the existing one as is, I would definitely love it!


P.S. laugh LooneyTunes, 180-200 seconds isn't slow, it's great! I pat myself on the back for those times, and play the national anthem and award myself a medal when I get faster ones!
Posted by: HairyBear

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Tue Jul 02 2013 10:25 PM

I think there should definitely be some more incentive for playing games in which you already have the badge(s). I'm reluctant to play those games because I hate watching my ELO score go down and down and down, with nothing to show for it at the end of the day/month. I DO play them because I want to help my team score points, but only specific topics, and if I get a good score early in the day, why bother playing anymore?

I just got the Mind Melt badge and was surprised there wasn't a champion division. I think I'm opposed to playing a different game just because you're a champion. You don't do that in any other game. You play the same game, just are ranked against different people.

You do have a champion of champion badge of sorts, in the Triathlon game. You could do something similar with the daily games, call it a Quadrathlon badge or something, the combined scores from Daily Game, New Question Game, Mind Melt, and Who Am I. It means more when it's a one-time thing, too, instead of a slogging to get points thing. Any idiot can slog through to get points. When you score the most points on the day in all four games, THEN you've done something.

How long do I have to wait for a response to a private message on the feedback form? You guys are usually right on the ball to comments in here, but it was a complaint about a specific player, so I made it private.

William/Hairy
Posted by: Chavs

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Wed Jul 03 2013 03:37 AM

Originally Posted By: HairyBear
I think there should definitely be some more incentive for playing games in which you already have the badge(s). I'm reluctant to play those games because I hate watching my ELO score go down and down and down, with nothing to show for it at the end of the day/month. I DO play them because I want to help my team score points, but only specific topics, and if I get a good score early in the day, why bother playing anymore?



ELO scores can be disheartening, I agree; I would like to see a 'Personal Best' option for all games, where you can see your personal best on each game, or you are at least alerted if you break your own record.

Developing that idea further: There could be a badge for breaking 5 or 10 or X Personal Bests, but to make it really meaningful it would be a Level Bonus Challenge, maybe for people at Level 100? (Because people will have scored some high scores by that stage.)


Quote:
...instead of a slogging to get points thing. Any idiot can slog through to get points...


I think it takes some commitment and dedication to 'slog' through games just to get a huge amount of points for a badge, and if one is an idiot wink it probably takes more commitment and dedication than ever. It also acts as a long service badge marking individual achievement rather than a race against other players. So it's a hard won and deserved badge.

Sometimes, no matter how brainy one is, one simply does not have the human power or even technology to beat the top speeds posted by other players, and a lot of these champion-style badges require super-speed that even if achieved can be thwarted by just one other superhuman player.

Got to have the mix! smile
Posted by: cubswin2323

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Wed Jul 03 2013 09:15 PM

Long needed. Again, just be sure they have all of the badges first before being Champs. Still have nasty flashbacks from the WAI Champs experience in getting the 50K badge.
Posted by: nasty_liar

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Fri Aug 22 2014 11:19 AM

Is it time to revisit this again?

Perhaps someone can explain to me in detail how question sets are assigned, but it seems that the divisions are made by amount of mind melt points? Or is it by level? Either way, if you wind up having many points or high level then you are up against the top, top players and have practically no chance of winning the 'win your question set' badge whatever that's called in mind melt.

Is it time to put those who have that winners badge plus the 50k points one in their own sets?
Posted by: Chavs

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Sat Aug 23 2014 04:07 AM

If Wes's idea of a variant on the game was offered as an option (not replacement) that could also be an incentive to be a champion. I love mind melt. I never look forward to being a champ in any game because it means I never stand a chance of being near the top of any result table again. I like having the choice of playing the untimed/timed mind melt, and easy/hard in who am I, etc -- and would hate to lose that. Having three versions available in the champ division would definitely be a nice way to reward rather than penalise loyalty to a game or expertise.

Oops!! I thought this was a brand new thread, didn't realise it was an old one revisited! Well, looks like I have already had a lot to say on it. Sorry to repeat myself...
Posted by: mehaul

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Sat Aug 23 2014 08:26 AM

myself...myself...myself...myself...myself...myself...

It is difficult when you get lost in the canyons that are called FT Forums. Don't despair, help is on the way.
Posted by: nasty_liar

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Sat Aug 30 2014 06:34 AM

I hate to repeat myself too (myself, myself), almost as much as I hate to recycle someone else's joke, but can anyone explain how the current sets are assigned and if it is how I think it is (based on mind melt points cumulative total) then I think it might be time for a champs division. Can anyone shed any light on mind melt for me?
Posted by: Buddy1

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Sat Aug 30 2014 09:27 AM

I thought the current sets are assigned randomly. Yesterday, I was assigned Set #22 despite having over 50,000 Mind Melt points.
Posted by: TimBentley

Re: Time for a a Mind Melt Champ div? - Sat Aug 30 2014 11:40 AM

It appears that sets 1 to 5 are for untimed and sets 6 to 15 are for less than 5000 melting points. There doesn't seem to be any separation based on having 50000 points.