Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea

Posted by: Chavs

Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Fri Aug 23 2013 01:55 PM

I thought we were told that the Who Am I game divisons were going to be altered so that you don't get into the champion division until your have your 50000 point megabadge?

Is that the case?

If not, please please please could it be the case? I am finding the game too difficult to be fun, and a little demoralising to play - So often,... I don't. Maybe it's not just me who feels like this.
Posted by: postcards2go

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Fri Aug 23 2013 02:47 PM

I found out about this the last day of the month when I won the monthly. I didn't play that day, trying to avoid disaster, but alas it was too late. I did eventually win the 50000 badge, but, as you indicate, it was excruciating. I have also advised others to go for the 50000 first.

The points are just not nearly 'as good' for most of us playing the champs division. I wouldn't mind seeing the requirements for the champs division to include having already won the 50000.
Posted by: AdamM7

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Fri Aug 23 2013 03:20 PM

I've heard people complaining about this for a while now and after winning the monthly in July, I know first-hand that the champions division slows you down by quite a bit. I was only 2000 away from the mastery badge when I won the monthly, and if I had played in the hard division instead of the champs throughout August, I'd be only a couple of hundred points away from winning it instead of the thousand or so I need know.

It's never a good sign when people are purposefully avoiding winning a badge or advancing in something. I think there's been a general consensus and no arguments against adding the requirement of the 50K badge, so it sounds to me like everyone would be happier if this was changed.
Posted by: nautilator

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Fri Aug 23 2013 11:31 PM

Please do this. The champion division on this was a terrible surprise.
Posted by: halekotsi

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Sat Aug 24 2013 01:37 AM

Not everyone would be happier. I'm pretty happy in Champions now, and I'm also a good year or so of consistent play away from the 50K badge. So it would be a bit of a letdown.

I definitely don't think anyone should be forced to play at a level they don't think is fun, but it would be nice if there were some kind of option for people who actually prefer it there.
Posted by: zippolover

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Sat Aug 24 2013 04:12 AM

When a game is no longer fun, I stop playing unless sent there for a Daily Challenge. I already avoid the Mind Melt for that reason.

With Who Am I, I find the Easy too difficult and checking my recent results that the closest I have got to winning is 3/30. I will not get close to the 50k for another two years at this rate, so would prefer NOT to win having read this thread.
Posted by: ssabreman

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Sat Aug 24 2013 07:32 AM

At least in MM, the Champs can go back and play the untimed game after they've got all the badges. It would be nice if WAI had a similar feature. I don't play it unless it's a Daily Challenge.
Posted by: HairyBear

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Sun Aug 25 2013 01:24 PM

Greetings. Question: Is the Champion level question set even MORE obscure than the Difficult level set? I DON'T have the badge yet, but I play the Difficult set so that I can help score points for my team. That means I'm unlikely (if ever) to get the badge since it seems only the Easy folks score a lot of points. However, I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a minute and suggest that if you were one of those blowing away the competition in the Easy game and racking up the Whozit points, you really belong in the Champions division where you face other people on your same level of playing ability. Knockout seems to have this down to a science... you rise to the level of your ability and no further. I'd like to see something similar in some of the other games as well, perhaps a Minor Champion and Major Champion level to separate out the superbrains from the ordinary geniuses. I agree that if a game is no longer enjoyable to play, something needs to change. But letting the champs play the chumps is not the way to go. We don't let NBA stars play college ball, even if it would make them feel good about themselves.
Posted by: AdamM7

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Sun Aug 25 2013 01:55 PM

Originally Posted By: HairyBear
I'd like to see something similar in some of the other games as well, perhaps a Minor Champion and Major Champion level


What would be the criteria for the "major" and "minor" champion levels?
Posted by: bubblesfun

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Mon Aug 26 2013 01:09 AM

I finally got it recently, but the champions level seriously ruined the game for me. It became a slog where I knew people just on the other side of the line ended up getting the badge literally almost a year ahead of me while newer players who never got the badges passed me on a daily basis. It really was demoralizing.
Posted by: HairyBear

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Mon Aug 26 2013 02:18 PM

*thinking*

You could use the Elo rating; anyone above 1600 would get "kicked upstairs" into the Major Champions. Anyone who fell below 1400 in the Major Champions would get dropped back down into the Minor Champions. Borderline cases might do that several times, and the Major Champions would then be stuck trying to suck Elo points from their fellow superbrains. But I think it's more workable than a secondary Major Champion badge for current badge holders because as each group of people moves up into the Major Champion category, it becomes easier for the next group to follow suit. So you'd get the same situation you have now. In the "old days", only the top 10 would get the badge, and if all 10 of those in the top 10 already had the badge, oh well. This was discouraging to those who couldn't break into the top 10, so Terry adjusted the rule to make it the top 10 who didn't already have the badge. All well and good until now, where, for example, in Piece of Cake, out of the top 50, 40 already have the badge, so someone finishing in 50th place is now eligible for the badge. If the Champions were separated into their own category, you'd still have the same situation, you just wouldn't see those 40 names in the top 50, just the top 10 remaining in the lower division. Perhaps some kind of balancing act is needed, make it so that you can get the champion badge if you haven't gotten it before, but you still have to make some minimum performance level, say the top 25. (This would disqualify me for the Piece of Cake badge this month, but then I shouldn't be getting it. I haven't had one top 10 so far this month.) So out of 180 people who played Piece of Cake last hour, 46 were in the Champion division, more than 1/4th.

That said, I'm not terribly fond of the Elo rating system. My rating keeps going down and down and down even though I'm not getting worse, I'm getting better. So I quit playing those games where I'm already a champion because I don't like seeing my rating go down. I'd like to see the Elo rating for champions in the hourly games go away completely. Then I'd play more often, and in categories where I sometimes suck. (The inclusion of the average in the ranking system prevents me playing in categories where I ALWAYS suck.) Why don't we return to the old top 10 system, where the top 10 finishers get far more points than those lower down? That encouraged maximum participation in the games, incorporated the average to some extent because low scorers didn't finish in the top 10, and didn't punish people for playing categories where they performed poorly. I used to play Music in Who's the Smartest when I never got more than 7 or 8 right, and usually only 5 or 6, but one day I finished first among everyone in Music. Strangely enough, hell didn't freeze over. Now I won't touch the Music category, never mind Geography.

So here's my solution for the Champions and Difficult players in Who Am I: give them bonus points for playing a tougher game, perhaps 16.6666% or an additional flat bonus of 10 or 20 Whozit points per game. I see the bottom players in Champs already get 30 points instead of 20, while the Difficult players don't. That seems unreasonable. I also see that out of the top 200 yesterday, 32 were Champions, including the top 5, and 163 were Easy players. Only FIVE from the Difficult level. Is Difficult HARDER than Champion? Does anyone know?
Posted by: AdamM7

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Tue Aug 27 2013 01:24 AM

Originally Posted By: HairyBear
I also see that out of the top 200 yesterday, 32 were Champions, including the top 5, and 163 were Easy players. Only FIVE from the Difficult level. Is Difficult HARDER than Champion? Does anyone know?


While that does seem startling at first, that's only the top 200 and you'd expect people playing an easier set to score higher. The startling bit should probably be that so many people in the champions set are able to match the top scores of people playing in easy.

Lots of people play in the difficult division already for team points (or so I've heard - I used to play in it purely because I scored higher relative to others in the tougher sets). I'm not sure 1/6th points bonus would help encourage playing massively, if that's what you're trying to do. A flat bonus of Whozits seems unfair - it's just as much a skill to win quickly in the easy division as it is to get them all right in a tough set of the difficult division and you shouldn't punish those who are better at speed than difficulty.

With the champs, there's far more in their division. Yes, the bottom players get at least 30 but if the people hovering in the middle had gotten that score in the difficult (or sometimes even easy) division, they would have got a lot more Whozits. If anything, you want to be skewing the balance more towards the champs - I think a minimum of 30 Whozits is the least some of the champs deserve for having to put up with daBomb and _Morpheus_ on a regular basis.

As for the ELO
Posted by: nautilator

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Wed Aug 28 2013 09:14 PM

Originally Posted By: halekotsi
Not everyone would be happier. I'm pretty happy in Champions now, and I'm also a good year or so of consistent play away from the 50K badge. So it would be a bit of a letdown.

You could still play it in harder mode, couldn't you? Or are they different?


Consistency is also an argument here as no other game puts the champion bar so low.
Posted by: halekotsi

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Wed Aug 28 2013 09:40 PM

It's not much different in terms of difficulty. But a big part of the fun for me is seeing how I do against the fastest players on the site, and if the 50K requirement is instituted, it would be at least a year before I could compete with them directly again.
Posted by: Jakeroo

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Wed Aug 28 2013 11:00 PM

Unlike halekotsi, I will never be the fastest player in ANY group. However, I managed to get the 50K after I'd gotten the monthly. It just takes a little while longer. On the positive side, perhaps folks should think of the "extra games" as adding to their points for getting to a new level : )
Posted by: Chavs

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Thu Aug 29 2013 01:59 AM

Hi Jake. smile
Extra games adding to what? I think I am missing something.

I'm years away from my megabadge whichever course I take. My main gripe is the fun factor. Very little fun factor in playing a game you know are doing badly at, and I understand the sense of making divisions, but not the way that people who do well at a game get banned from a game they enjoy. I have a monthly badge because I liked playing the easy game. My reward for liking it..? I am forbidden from ever playing again. laugh It's cruel.
Posted by: Terry

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Thu Aug 29 2013 11:05 AM

Plea heard and agreed with.

Game changed so that champs are those who have all badges including the 50,000 badge. It goes into effect on your next play.
Posted by: flopsymopsy

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Thu Aug 29 2013 01:30 PM

Some of us had to slog for years before we could get the 50k badge because of that problem. Can we get a stripe on our champs badges saying "holder really had to suffer"?

Could we now do what was agreed yonks ago? And make it so that only people who finish in the top 100 can get the monthly badge in each and all of the dailies/hourlies? Only as things are going these days people only have to turn up. smile
Posted by: Terry

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Thu Aug 29 2013 02:10 PM

Yep, the top 100 change needs to be made. Which games in particular are easiest for just showing up? I'll start with them.
Posted by: WesleyCrusher

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Thu Aug 29 2013 02:20 PM

From the hourlies, Smartest is most critical, with the current 10th in line being exactly #100. Hourly mix has it at #85, all other hourlies 75 or better.

On the dailies, Mind Melt actually has three outside the top 100, WaI is safe, all in the top 30.
Posted by: Chavs

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Thu Aug 29 2013 02:28 PM

Thank you, Terry.
Posted by: Terry

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Thu Aug 29 2013 02:33 PM

Thanks, end of the month on Sunday, so good time to do the switch over for next mth.
Posted by: WesleyCrusher

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Thu Aug 29 2013 04:14 PM

While we're on the topic of small but helpful fixes, can you please add a confirmation or undo to the Team Leader message delete (doesn't it just hide the post so that an undo would be easy to add)? I accidentally deleted something from our board twice this week while clicking back into the FT window from another program frown
Posted by: Terry

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Thu Aug 29 2013 05:21 PM

Yep, will add that tomorrow morn.
Posted by: ssabreman

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Thu Aug 29 2013 06:04 PM

The idea for a Champs Division in Mind Melt has come up numerous times, been agreed on, and never been done. By skimming the Champs off, it may eliminate the need to do the cut off for the top 100 in that game. It's awfully crowded at the top of that game, and getting worse each month so many worthy players have been denied for a long time. It would be a shame to end up out of the medals because of the congestion there.

I'm writing this in here because the other thread keeps getting lost or ignored.
Posted by: postcards2go

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Thu Aug 29 2013 06:06 PM

Originally Posted By: WesleyCrusher
While we're on the topic of small but helpful fixes, can you please add a confirmation or undo to the Team Leader message delete (doesn't it just hide the post so that an undo would be easy to add)? I accidentally deleted something from our board twice this week while clicking back into the FT window from another program frown


Wes, yes! I have accidentally deleted posst when meaning to click on 'reply'. This leads to a discussion on what the offending post might have been LOL

Thanks, Terry... for both changes smile
Posted by: eyhung

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Fri Aug 30 2013 09:56 AM

Thanks for the Who Am I change! You may also want to update the text describing the champ division as for people who have won all badges related to the game now.
Posted by: Terry

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Fri Aug 30 2013 12:02 PM

team leader thread delete verify added
Posted by: WesleyCrusher

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Fri Aug 30 2013 02:11 PM

Thanks - my main problem was with single posts in a thread however (big link near reply). Those don't seem to have a verification added yet.
Posted by: kyleisalive

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Fri Aug 30 2013 02:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Terry
team leader thread delete verify added


Can we have the exact same feature on the category boards and the Lounge for mods? My greatest fear is deleting a topic thread and losing everything.
Posted by: HoboKing

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Tue Sep 03 2013 11:41 AM

When I first started playing the Who Am I game I did very well for the most part. I'm not really well versed on badges won in that game or any other for that matter, but when I "graduated" to the Champ level it was a rude awakening. It got so frustrating I would take a few days off at a time but I never quit the game. Yesterday I breezed through the game and today the same. That was too easy I told myself, then noticed I was playing the "easy" game again. Clueless I came on this forum and found out why. I quit the Word Wizard Game out of frustration but was hanging in there with Who Am I and Mind Melt, two games that can also be tough, but I enjoy anyway. I guess I have to claw my way back up the ladder on Who Am I, so that I can get frustrated all over again. Don't take it wrong, the tough challenges are one of the reasons I'm here.
Posted by: Carti

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Fri Sep 06 2013 04:29 AM

Slightly surprised to be thrown out of the Champs division! I'd have thought that the average of points (whozits) scored per day - mine is over 90 - was a far better indicator of what individual players know about this subject, rather than the dogged accumulation of points over the years. Still, you know best.
Posted by: Jakeroo

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Mon Sep 09 2013 01:13 AM

my question to the above 2 folks. Was your champs badge taken away as well? If so, I'd be upset, were it me. If not, I don't see how this is a "bad" thing.
Posted by: bucknallbabe

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Mon Sep 09 2013 04:45 AM

I too found myself "demoted" - I could hold my own in the Champs Division and part (probably most) of the enjoyment was seeing my name above those of some of the top players. I haven't noticed any great difference in difficulty between the "Hard" and "Champ" games but I'm picking up "Whozits" at a slightly faster rate so the Mastery will be mine sooner. For me, the satisfaction of beating a top player was greater than getting the badge a couple of weeks sooner so for this particular player, the change might not be "bad" but it is not all good. I have no idea how many other players were "demoted" but I suspect the numbers playing in the "Hard" game has increased. Those who could hold their own in the Champs division will probably also be doing well in the Hard game but it wouldn't surprise me if those who were struggling in Champs are not finding it as easy to get the Whozits as they hoped in the Hard game. I'd have preferred to earn my Mastery in the Champs division by playing against top players but I appreciate this is not the case for everyone. I don't think there is a "champs badge" as such - just that the criteria for being a Champ have now been changed to require "Mastery" as well.
Posted by: WesleyCrusher

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Mon Sep 09 2013 05:03 AM

There's no champs badge - the one you're likely thinking of ("Legendary Champion") only requires that you have earned 7 monthly victories which is independent from "champ" status in any game. The "demotion" doesn't change anything in that regard and doesn't make the badge harder to get.

Champ status is meant as something of a "retired" status - it's for those players who no longer compete for badges in a particular game because they have all of them. Having champ before attaining mastery would defeat that (the change now was simply a fix - WaI champ was instituted before the Mastery badge and still used old requirements).

Lastly, hard and champ sets use the same question pool and count the same for team games and Ascension Quest. It's just that you play different opponents and that non-champs have the option of playing easy while champs must play the hard version.
Posted by: Carti

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Mon Sep 09 2013 09:19 AM

Since I've earned nearly all of my ca.30,000 points in this game almost exclusively in the champs div - where presumably things are tougher and progress is slower - I do find it *somewhat* unfair to now be down in the far less competitive 'hard' division when if I'd played there all along, I would be considerably closer to the 50,000 qualification! The daily award for winning in the hard division also seems to be significantly - around 20% - less than that in the champs div.

This 'Mastery' business seems very arbitrary. Any biffer can collect points in the long run.
Posted by: AdamM7

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Mon Sep 09 2013 09:39 AM

Originally Posted By: Carti
This 'Mastery' business seems very arbitrary. Any biffer can collect points in the long run.


Yes, but it can take you anywhere between 500 and 2500 days (almost 7 years).

I think it shows dedication to play for at least 500 days. That's at least 7500 questions spread over nearly a year and a half.
Posted by: dsimpy

Re: Who Am I - "Champion" divison plea - Mon Sep 09 2013 10:20 AM

I don't know how many people have been affected by 'demotion' from the Champs to Hard division in WAI?, but if it's a significant number is there a case for temporarily reducing the number of Champ sets again (from the current 5) to ensure there's decent competition between Champs?