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#1142477 - Mon Aug 15 2016 02:28 PM Re: Word Wizard - Content Issues [Re: JMElston]
agony Offline

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OK, but in that case, conviviality is a trait, not a behaviour. The words are close, but by no means interchangeable.

Words have connotations, and that has to be taken into account. "Joyful" and "jovial" may be listed in the thesaurus as synonyms, and may share some aspects of their definitions, but they are not the same word, and the distinction is a valuable one.

A person could have a joyful private moment, for example, but not a jovial one.

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#1142483 - Mon Aug 15 2016 03:48 PM Re: Word Wizard - Content Issues [Re: JMElston]
mehaul Offline
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"This thread has fifty pages..."

I show 60 which adds to your contention if pages of posting is even relevant. A shame, it is not. Are there 10 missing pages that explain the word you wonder about? Or is the 'mechanical' definition of my Forum set up better than yours because there are more definition pages given? Is your dictionary wrong because it doesn't have the definition given here? Is the other dictionary wrong because it has more definitions than yours allows? Some dictionaries are written to support the modern usage. Some dictionaries (like the ones used here) attempt to cover the entire history of the language. If you want a quick view of words, this isn't the game for you. I'd be looking for those missing ten pages. Has Hillary been near your machine with something like a cloth to wipe it with?

I believe the thread could even be set to show as 1 page (at least in some forums the threads can be set for single page viewing). That would really destroy the idea that number of pages matters at all. Many of the posts are comments of the sort: 'gee I didn't know that."; rather than: 'That is wrong according to my dictionary.'
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#1142497 - Mon Aug 15 2016 06:43 PM Re: Word Wizard - Content Issues [Re: JMElston]
JBCizzle Offline
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All discussion about pages aside (I just happen to see 50 pages, not hating on anyone that doesn't) but I switched over to the dictionary that FT uses a couple of pages ago. So the problems I'm running into are from this dictionary. Page numbers aside, I do think my point is valid. I mean if it were ONLY me that had a problem with it, then why would there be SEPARATE THREADS specifically for the content problems in the who am I game, word wizard game, and mind melt games? I feel like FT acknowledges that these are flawed games (or at least have flaws) and are trying to fix them. Arguing about page numbers doesn't effect the validity of my point.

I'm not *just* posting to vent my frustrations. I also would like to see changes made to prevent future frustrations of this nature. Maybe that's not possible, but I'm not selfish enough to wish everyone else falls into the same unnecessary traps that I do.

For example, whenever I play the Word Wizard game and I have a "wtf?" moment, I write down the word and look it up after. This month alone (which we are about halfway through) I'm at 86 words. And those aren't new words that I've learned and want to remember. They are either words with multiple definitions in which the main definition answer is nowhere to be found (and it's one deep from within the bowels of the dictionary) or it's one with bad decoy answers (ie multiple correct answers)
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#1142498 - Mon Aug 15 2016 06:47 PM Re: Word Wizard - Content Issues [Re: agony]
JBCizzle Offline
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Originally Posted By: agony
OK, but in that case, conviviality is a trait, not a behaviour. The words are close, but by no means interchangeable.

Words have connotations, and that has to be taken into account. "Joyful" and "jovial" may be listed in the thesaurus as synonyms, and may share some aspects of their definitions, but they are not the same word, and the distinction is a valuable one.

A person could have a joyful private moment, for example, but not a jovial one.


That's fine, but trying to make that distinction (as well as 14 other word definitions) within 60-100 seconds is a bit much imo. I'm willing to bet if I see the same word again and the same choices are there, I'm probably picking the first one I see that makes sense instead of sitting down and reading all of the choices.
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#1142514 - Mon Aug 15 2016 10:39 PM Re: Word Wizard - Content Issues [Re: JMElston]
looney_tunes Offline
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Maybe you should play the game a bit more slowly. I had no trouble at all getting the monthly badge when I started playing - just play every hour when in front of a computer, take your time to consider, and learn the ones that don't make sense. I am not a speed demon by any stretch of the imagination, and always take the time to read all 5 options before I choose one. Just did that, and took 67 seconds.
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#1142543 - Tue Aug 16 2016 02:07 PM Re: Word Wizard - Content Issues [Re: JMElston]
mehaul Offline
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Loc: Florida USA
If you want to see a good example of the obscurity of some words this Quizbot uses for games, just check out the Crystal Ball game. There's a list of the last couple of dozen words guessed and a dozen of the selected even if they weren't guessed. And then, each hour you can see four to five definitions for the past hour's word (most of the time). Some defs I'd never recognize if we were going by the third definition given to try to guess the word it goes to.


And I think it's been said and may have been missed by many that, yes, it seems the Princeton Dictionary Project is a source of words and definitions used here. BUT, it has also been said that there are more sources used also, so don't hang your hat on the only hook you see on the wall. You may check three times and find the word with the def, but the fourth time you won't.


Edited by mehaul (Tue Aug 16 2016 02:14 PM)
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#1142548 - Tue Aug 16 2016 06:06 PM Re: Word Wizard - Content Issues [Re: JMElston]
looney_tunes Offline
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Back on page 2 of the thread (on my tally of 60 current pages), there is a response from Terry to a complaint about ambiguity in the game:

Quote:
Quote:
Don't we also want a clear field of competition with the lanes evenly marked for our swiftest racing?

Hmm not really I like the challenge of not entirely knowing what usage of a word is being requested. It means that you really have to think about more than just one thing. Uses a different part of the brain I think.

Most of the posts, especially on the early pages, are about errors and typos in the online database, which (as has been pointed out many times along the way) is not part of Fun Trivia, and not under our control. The only thing that Terry might be able to program differently would be the algorithms used to select sets of answers, and from his response it doesn't seem to me that he plans to spend a lot of time on it. I, for one, rather like the oddities I come across, although it was something of a relief to finally see the definition for mayonnaise rewritten as something that makes sense. I can't remember whether the hammock/hummock confusion has been cleared up yet, either.
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#1142549 - Tue Aug 16 2016 06:09 PM Re: Word Wizard - Content Issues [Re: JMElston]
namrewsna Offline
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Registered: Wed Jul 16 2014
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Loc: Utah USA
Originally Posted By: mehaul
If you want to see a good example of the obscurity of some words this Quizbot uses for games, just check out the Crystal Ball game. There's a list of the last couple of dozen words guessed and a dozen of the selected even if they weren't guessed. And then, each hour you can see four to five definitions for the past hour's word (most of the time). Some defs I'd never recognize if we were going by the third definition given to try to guess the word it goes to.


And I think it's been said and may have been missed by many that, yes, it seems the Princeton Dictionary Project is a source of words and definitions used here. BUT, it has also been said that there are more sources used also, so don't hang your hat on the only hook you see on the wall. You may check three times and find the word with the def, but the fourth time you won't.


The definitions are not as crucial there. I have won with at least a dozen words that I did not know the exact meaning of at the time, but guessed because I did know the word existed. Also it is a little annoying how they seem to share common definitions of synonyms and sometimes alongside the definitions they give example sentences which use a synonym instead of the word itself. Usually it is easy to piece it together and just mentally sub the right word in, but it can be disorienting at first and I imagine it is particularly annoying for non native English speakers.

I agree though, there must be other source wordbanks (or at least one) in use as the one time I messed with the famous Princeton online dictionary I found several past Crystal winning words absent there.


Edited by namrewsna (Wed Aug 17 2016 04:26 AM)

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#1142574 - Tue Aug 16 2016 11:59 PM Re: Word Wizard - Content Issues [Re: JMElston]
agony Offline

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Registered: Sat Mar 29 2003
Posts: 13181
Loc: Western Canada
I'm almost certain that it's been confirmed that more than one dictionary is used, but have no idea now where and when that was said.

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#1142576 - Wed Aug 17 2016 01:13 AM Re: Word Wizard - Content Issues [Re: JMElston]
mehaul Offline
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Registered: Wed Feb 03 2010
Posts: 6431
Loc: Florida USA
Another indicator of that being the case is touched on by namrewsna above: the presence of sentences as examples of the word in use. Sometimes those aren't there. To me that indicates a collection organized in an alternate manner, a different compendium.
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#1155151 - Tue Jan 03 2017 03:38 AM Re: Word Wizard - Content Issues [Re: JMElston]
windrush Offline
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Registered: Sat Apr 28 2012
Posts: 93
Loc: South Australia
Have come across this before. I have always understood that the terms 'flotsam' and 'jetsam' are in no way interchangeable. I guessed 'correctly' here because there was no alternative,

In fact jetsam is defined as items deliberately thrown from a vessel, whereas the definition below accurately describes flotsam.


9. The floating wreckage of a ship

Your answer: jetsam

And, yes, I have come to terms with the fact that the dictionary(ies) used often uses the third or fourth definition, often contradicting the primary definition, but I do believe all reputable dictionaries will confirm my argument.

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#1155152 - Tue Jan 03 2017 04:14 AM Re: Word Wizard - Content Issues [Re: JMElston]
looney_tunes Offline
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Registered: Tue Jan 20 2009
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Loc: Briar Hill Victoria Australia 
The real point is that the dictionary is external to FunTrivia, so unless you contact the people who maintain that database and convince them to make the correction, you just have to learn those incorrect definitions. I have noticed a few of my pet hatreds get corrected over the years.
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#1155155 - Tue Jan 03 2017 05:57 AM Re: Word Wizard - Content Issues [Re: JMElston]
mask100 Offline
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Registered: Tue Apr 19 2011
Posts: 107
Loc: Pakistan
I am sure that Gain in weight is not the definition of fly high nor is Refined taste actually discretion.
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#1155339 - Wed Jan 04 2017 07:41 PM Re: Word Wizard - Content Issues [Re: JMElston]
windrush Offline
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Registered: Sat Apr 28 2012
Posts: 93
Loc: South Australia
So how do I contact the people who maintain the database? It would be an interesting exercise.

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#1155341 - Wed Jan 04 2017 08:39 PM Re: Word Wizard - Content Issues [Re: JMElston]
shuehorn Offline
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Registered: Tue Jul 04 2006
Posts: 3406
Loc: Lawrenceville Georgia USA     
This might be the site.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/

I'm sure there's a contact us option somewhere.

Sue
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#1155390 - Thu Jan 05 2017 02:29 PM Re: Word Wizard - Content Issues [Re: JMElston]
satguru Offline
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Registered: Thu Feb 17 2000
Posts: 7128
Loc: Kingsbury London UK           
Ambiguous at the very best, two equally possible answers:

15. Vacation

Your answer: a short respite

a short respite is the definition for "breath"

The correct answer was the act of making something legally void
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#1156663 - Mon Jan 23 2017 08:50 AM Re: Word Wizard - Content Issues [Re: JMElston]
TriviaFan22 Offline
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Registered: Sat Apr 27 2013
Posts: 151
Loc: Texas USA
Does the game ever 'break', as in do people get the same letter come up like 60% of the time or seem to get 90% all vowels? I just get the worst hands. Other letters never come up at all and I have been playing for months to try to finish my zoo badge.

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#1156675 - Mon Jan 23 2017 12:11 PM Re: Word Wizard - Content Issues [Re: JMElston]
looney_tunes Offline
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Registered: Tue Jan 20 2009
Posts: 4329
Loc: Briar Hill Victoria Australia 
That is not broken, it is the result of random allocation, which can give you lopsided patterns. The letters are not totally random, it was said at the start of the game that their distribution was based on scrabble, more or less. That was why the letter swap feature was introduced early on - when you have GRKXZQQWJMIL (the worst consonant-heavy combination in my record of the letters the game gives me) it is a real relief to ditch two and get a vowel. The best thing you can do is just keep playing - I try to grab a letter every hour (when I can find a minute to interrupt my work), so the constant turnover reduced the frustration of looking at an ugly batch of letters. The zoo badge is one of the longer-term targets, for which patient plodding will eventually get you there.
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#1156884 - Fri Jan 27 2017 08:07 PM Re: Word Wizard - Content Issues [Re: looney_tunes]
ozzz2002 Offline
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Registered: Mon Dec 03 2001
Posts: 18707
Loc: Sydney NSW Australia        
Quote:
Pearly
Your answer: informal terms for a human `tooth'


Quotes do not match, but I feel that they can be deleted altogether.
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#1157406 - Sun Feb 05 2017 03:55 AM Re: Word Wizard - Content Issues [Re: JMElston]
ASA Offline
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Registered: Tue Oct 15 2002
Posts: 4300
Loc: Adelaide
South Australia   
Just played a game of word wizard and two of the options were the same, it didn't matter as the correct answer was another option but was wondering what would happen if it had been.

7 Cause to become very swollen

crofter
sickness
concentration
tumefy
glyptography
concentration
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#1157407 - Sun Feb 05 2017 04:05 AM Re: Word Wizard - Content Issues [Re: JMElston]
looney_tunes Offline
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Registered: Tue Jan 20 2009
Posts: 4329
Loc: Briar Hill Victoria Australia 
I understand from entries way back when the game started that, if you ever see two answers the same, you immediately know they are not the correct answer. The algorithm makes sure that the correct answer only appears once, but doesn't worry about it in the incorrect options.
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#1157436 - Sun Feb 05 2017 07:33 PM Re: Word Wizard - Content Issues [Re: JMElston]
satguru Offline
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Registered: Thu Feb 17 2000
Posts: 7128
Loc: Kingsbury London UK           
7. A reckless and unprincipled reprobate

Your answer: bottom feeder

bottom feeder means "an opportunist who profits from the misfortunes of others"

The correct answer was black sheep

-----------------------------------

Could you say the definitions are too specific to not cover both options equally? A black sheep would usually refer to a bad apple type in a group.
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#1157452 - Mon Feb 06 2017 11:17 AM Re: Word Wizard - Content Issues [Re: JMElston]
mask100 Offline
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Registered: Tue Apr 19 2011
Posts: 107
Loc: Pakistan
This hour I got:
12. A critical study(of a writer's work)
Your answer: examen
I am pretty sure it's spelled as examine and not examen.
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#1157454 - Mon Feb 06 2017 12:18 PM Re: Word Wizard - Content Issues [Re: mask100]
JanIQ Offline
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Registered: Thu Jul 09 2009
Posts: 650
Loc: Antwerp
Belgium
Originally Posted By: mask100
This hour I got:
12. A critical study(of a writer's work)
Your answer: examen
I am pretty sure it's spelled as examine and not examen.


As it is A critical study, the question asks for a noun, not for a verb. The verb is spelled examine, while the noun is spelled examen.
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#1158386 - Thu Feb 16 2017 04:34 PM Re: Word Wizard - Content Issues [Re: JanIQ]
ozzz2002 Offline
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Registered: Mon Dec 03 2001
Posts: 18707
Loc: Sydney NSW Australia        
Quote:
Coming_upon
Your answer: a casual meeting with a person of thing


'of' should be 'or'.
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