Gatsby722
Observer of Interesting Information
Reged: May 18 2001
Posts: 82050
Loc: Canton Ohio USA
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OK. It wouldn't be the first time I ever got peevish, self-involved or completely hyper-critical about television (and the dreck that often and/or occasionally appears on it ) but I have now developed a full-throttle distaste for Mr. Leno. Do I think he's likely an extremely likable and popular fellow? Yes, I do. Do I think he's a mostly giggle-worthy comedian? Yes, more often than not, I do. Do I think his successful [and long] run as the "Tonight Show" host was impressive, especially since he took it over and maintained it from a true television icon like Johnny Carson? Certainly. Here's the thing, though. It would seem, and it's just my measly opinion, that Jay Leno has done a crazy disservice to prime time television this year . He's now on at 10PM five nights a week on NBC. I get it that his show is much less expensive to produce than the gritty dramatic programming that network produced for years ~ a stage with a desk plopped in the middle of it is, naturally, much cheaper than recreating a hectic Chicago hospital top-to-bottom (ala "ER") or the brutal truths of the NYC landscape (ala the "Law and Order" franchise). And we all know money is tight these days, even in Hollywood, yes? Not that I really believe that Jay Leno is driven by some excessive desire to save the economy, mind you. Nor that the networks are, either. In my cynical head, it's all driven by the need for exposure and a hearty dollop of greed in the industry (as in somebody's saving money on this part over here just to overpay somebody else over there, etc.). But there's a wide-eyed country boy innocence in me, too. And it needs to believe that TV is about the audience, above all else, when it gets down to the bottom line(s).
This is all sparked, mostly, by the recent cancellation of a critically praised mid-season replacement series that started earlier in 2009 called "Southland". I really liked it --- I may have been in the minority there, I realize. Its ratings were respectable, but not astounding. It was a (gritty, yet again) cop show set in LA. It had the pace of "ER" (which it replaced) and the character richness of, say, "NYPD Blue". What it had plenty of was potential, though. BUT, back to that "gritty" thing, it seems the brass thought it had a little too much of said grit to 'make it' in a time slot prior to 10PM. Evidently there's a brainfulness in the viewers that doesn't *kick in* until that last prime time hour, or something? Anyway, they shut down "Southland" because Jay Leno now lives in the 10PM spot nightly. Bah! They moved both "Law and Order"s to 9PM -- and, given the thinking about all that pesky grit mentioned earlier, we can assume now that the NYPD will be chasing after more family-friendly perps like jaywalkers and truant high-schoolers, then? And, worst of all, they've given Leno a ticket for a full season! His ratings are, naturally (or so I predicted), NOT what NBC had hoped for. Doesn't matter, though. He gets to air every night regardless, and gets to do it until next year!
So the question builds. Well, maybe there's more than just one. Is a cheaper show with a waning audience better than a more costly one with an interested audience? Jay Leno has proven himself (at 11:30 PM, however) for many years ... but does that give him the power to deserve both such special treatment AND the gusto to wreck an otherwise successful NBC lineup? I watched, for the first time, his talk show last night and got to see Ewan McGregor in a racecar dodging ping pong balls and multi-colored streamers to see if his time on this peculiar obstacle course could be faster than the former 'top timer' - which was (are you ready for it?) Doctor Phil? Blech . It was so not fascinating that I could hardly stand it.
All I left it knowing even more is that I miss the older better NBC. And I'll miss what 'might have been' from "Southland". And I'll miss (even more now) any realistic expectation that there's any more "ER"s or "Hill Street Blues" coming down the pike at NBC. Nope. There's now some big-chinned guy being shoved at us as the prototype of what prime time TV needs to be, now and forevermore? And my ultimate biggest question is: Why'd he leave the "Tonight Show" to begin with? I thought he was going to *retire*. Instead, he's basically doing the same show the same way 90 minutes earlier every night. It makes no, no, no sense to me.
Thank you for the opportunity to rant . Does anyone out there have any feelings on this matter? Or am I just a hopeless, naysaying whiner?
-------------------- I'm about to projectile express myself all over your Hush Puppies ..." -- Sue Sylvester, from the television series "Glee"
Edited by Gatsby722 (Wed Oct 28 2009 09:57 AM)
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veronikkamarrz
Mainstay
Reged: Dec 28 2006
Posts: 767
Loc: Carson City Nevada USA
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I have been wondering some of the same things, Gats. I looked forward to Jay's show, until I watched it. It's silly, and I am very dissapointed. I watched Johnny Carson and Jay Leno for years. Loved the Tonight Show. This is not the same. I must also say, that I can't stand Conan O"Brien, so I don't watch.
I liked Southland, too. I miss it, and don't understand the cancellation. Maybe you and I were the only people watching?
-------------------- ...Be careful out there...
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longcoolwoman2
Participant
Reged: Aug 04 2008
Posts: 30
Loc: Rogers Arkansas USA
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NBC and their parent company, GE, seem to be hurting financially. The various NBC owned networks(with maybe the exception of CNBC) are dragging down the once proud peacock. When they purchased the Weather Channel, I groaned. What was once strictly an informational channel about the weather has now turned into another entertainment network. I think they have put all their eggs into Mr. Leno's basket with the hopes that he will attract enough viewers to earn them some more advertisers.
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ClaraSue
Multiloquent
Reged: May 18 2003
Posts: 4966
Loc: Arizona USA
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I can't say anything about Leno's show; I've never seen it. And during all the years he hosted The Tonight Show, I can honestly say that I may have seen it maybe 10 times. I've never cared much for him, and really don't like Conan at all. I've never seen Southland either. Jeez, why am I even responding? Oh, yeah....I remember now. Switch to CBS. Craig Ferguson's show is absolutely the best. He beats out Leno, Letterman, and Conan combined! Plus the other CBS shows are pretty good, too. 
edited to add: yeah, I know Letterman is on CBS, but I got tired of him years ago. Plus, this ongoing feud he has with Sarah Palin is just juvenile. (on his part)
-------------------- Don't let your worries get the best of you; remember, Moses started out as a basket case.
Edited by ClaraSue (Wed Oct 28 2009 04:22 PM)
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Gatsby722
Observer of Interesting Information
Reged: May 18 2001
Posts: 82050
Loc: Canton Ohio USA
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I should add here, too, that "Southland" was actually renewed for the Fall 2009 season ... and THEN got the plug pulled just weeks before the first new episode was to air. Which certainly lends credence to the
Quote:
I think they have put all their eggs into Mr. Leno's basket with the hopes that he will attract enough viewers to earn them some more advertisers.
statement above. Clearly, Leno's numbers didn't even start out nearly as numbered as planned and changed everything as a result. Yet he stays and "Southland" doesn't eeven get put on hold for (maybe) later? Luckily, there's a slight chance, I'm reading, that TNT might pick it up. Somebody should! Those episodes of it that are already in the can, and paid for, need to make some money back somewhere.
Oh, and I am a BIG fan of Craig Ferguson, too . Dude just kills me! I think he eclipses all of the other nighttime talk show hosts without popping a sweat.
-------------------- I'm about to projectile express myself all over your Hush Puppies ..." -- Sue Sylvester, from the television series "Glee"
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dg_dave
Forum Champion
Reged: Oct 05 2003
Posts: 6446
Loc: Dallas, TX
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I only watched Leno on Monday nights. After his "Headlines," (which are now at the end of the Monday episodes) I turned to something else or shut the TV off. I'm not a fan of talk shows to be honest, but some of those proofreaders in the "Headlines" segments need to either be reprimanded or fired (not Leno's people - the people who can't proofread the things that get sent to him). Now I only watch his show starting at 9:50pm CT on Monday and that's it.
-------------------- The way to get things done is NOT to mind who gets the credit for doing them. --Benjamin Jowett
The day we lose our will to fight is the day we lose our freedom.
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BxBarracuda
Enthusiast
Reged: Sep 05 2007
Posts: 415
Loc: Bronx New York USA
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I don't like when they get rid of good shows like this. As many others, I didn't get into Southland, but heard it was a good show.
That bad thing about good shows, is it costs more money to produce quality and we will be left with some leftovers for now.
A show I caught onto well after it started was The Unit, and that show was cancelled by CBS this year, even though ratings were improving over the previous year.
The Unit and another show I enjoyed and is the complete opposite in terms of seriousness from The Unit was My Name is Earl. The Unit was run on CBS and My Name is Earl on NBC, both however were owned by Twentieth Century Fox. Which means that CBS and NBC would hold no future syndication rights for these shows, leaving them to lean twoards the shows owned by their companies. Both the shows had endings which made it seem like there would be more shows.
Last year for weeks on end NBC did give us Howie Mandell and Deal or No Deal. Not sure which is/was worse?
While poking around some I found this bit of what appears to be good news on the subject for you Gatsby.
http://www.thewrap.com/ind-column/warner-bros-nbc-conclude-southland-divorce-9115
NBC didn't have syndication rights to Southland, Warner Brothers owns the show.
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veronikkamarrz
Mainstay
Reged: Dec 28 2006
Posts: 767
Loc: Carson City Nevada USA
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Craig Ferguson is a riot! Usually, I'm in bed, (if not sleeping) when he comes on, but I love him! He has just recently been getting good guests, to help his ratings. The accent is perfect, and he has a wonderful sense of humor!
According to Craig, he is a recovering alcoholic, and has quite a bit to say on that. Great show!
-------------------- ...Be careful out there...
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pyonir
Enthusiast
Reged: Apr 25 2009
Posts: 202
Loc: Minnesota USA
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"Southland" looked like it was shaping up to be a pretty decent new show for NBC. When I first saw the advertisements for the Leno show, I thought it was going to be on one night a week. I mean, why would he "retire" from the Tonight Show only to do basically the exact same show earlier in the evening 5 days a week.
At least now I know that I'll never have to see what's on NBC at the 9pm slot (Central time) and can avoid it.
The one thing that bothered me about "Southland" however was that they wrote cursing and language they couldn't use on network TV at that time, and then censor it in the show. wth? Just don't write the language into the script if you are going to just censor it out. It doesn't make the show "edgy" or "gritty" if you censor out that stuff anyway. I didn't get that, and it bothered me.
-------------------- This space for rent
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Gatsby722
Observer of Interesting Information
Reged: May 18 2001
Posts: 82050
Loc: Canton Ohio USA
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Yay ! "Southland" has, in fact, been picked up by TNT. Just thirteen original episodes, though (the ones that were already finished). Once they see how the ratings flow in as those air, they'll decide whether or not to order more.
And, I heard on the news last night and this morning, that Mr. Leno is rather disgusted by that his new show is not the runaway hit he (and others) had predicted. Maybe "frustrated" is a better word than 'disgusted'. He now claims that he'd be more than happy to return to his late night gig . I have a hunch that Conan O'Brien is shaking in his "Tonight Show" boots after hearing that particular news, eh? My opinion on THAT, though, is that after the fuss and the ceremonious "retirement" of Jay Leno, they ought to stick to their deal with Conan (ratings slumps or not). Jay has disrupted enough things, by now. He said he wanted to, so do it already: retire! I'm pretty sure he doesn't need to keep working for the extra income. Dude is mega-rich already!
-------------------- I'm about to projectile express myself all over your Hush Puppies ..." -- Sue Sylvester, from the television series "Glee"
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pyonir
Enthusiast
Reged: Apr 25 2009
Posts: 202
Loc: Minnesota USA
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Good news about Southland! Thanks for the info Gatsby.
I also agree with you that Leno should retire. Go back to the Tonight Show? He already made the choice to leave...I hope the producers of the show stick to their guns and tell him he already left, and can't come back. That would be ridiculous. I have no idea if Conan has been drawing ratings since the move though.
-------------------- This space for rent
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cydonia325
Mainstay
Reged: Dec 23 2006
Posts: 983
Loc: Stepford New York USA
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Gats, I am in complete agreement with you about Jay Leno. I have never cared for him, so I was probably biased from the outset.
"Southland" was a wonderfully gritty, yet complex show. Given the time to watch the characters develop, this one could be a real winner.
In my opinion, the NBC prime time schedule is seriously flawed. Let's put the production costs aside for a moment and consider the concept of The Jay Leno Show in its new time slot. People on the East and West Coasts complain about losing 10:00 P.M. dramas. What about viewers who live CST zones? I did a quick search for Jay Leno and reaction to the 9:00 P.M. slot, and the reception was pretty lukewarm. I cannot find the link for this Chicago based reviewer, but his post appeared fairly typical of the frustration voiced by many viewers in his area:
"This also shows the problem with a focus on East Coast and West Coast schedules. In Chicago, Leno comes on at 9:00 PM. He is not competing against just CBS, FOX, and ABC. He competes with whatever game is on ESPN or a local station. (sic) In Chicago, people are conditioned to watch the 10:00 news, and then a late night comedy show..."
Someone please correct me if the above is NOT the case!
The Jay Leno Show falls into the "Variety" category. I don't know the answer to this question, but what was the last successful network variety series that ran during primetime? "Carol Burnett" "Cher"? I think it may be "In Living Color", but I will leave this up to the resident television sleuths.
Leno's ratings have dropped since this article in the L.A. Times was published about <a rel=nofollow href="ttp://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ct-nbc-affils19-2009oct19,0,557820,full.story" target="_blank">NBC affiliates</a>. Can the smaller markets really wait it out until "repeat season"?
My apologies for writing such a long-winded post, but Jay Leno makes me very cranky!
(Edited to add: I just realise that my comments on "Southland" read like a really bad wine review. )
-------------------- There must and shall be aspirin!~ Withnail
Edited by cydonia325 (Wed Nov 04 2009 04:51 PM)
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