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#1122561 - Wed Jan 13 2016 04:21 PM New English National Anthem?
ozzz2002 Offline
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Registered: Mon Dec 03 2001
Posts: 20809
Loc: Sydney<BR>NSW Australia
There is currently a discussion as to whether England should replace 'God Save the Queen' with something else. I would be interested to hear the opinions of our English (and other) members. Would 'Land of Hope and Glory', or 'Jerusalem' or 'There Will Always Be an England' be a better option? How about the Roger Miller song 'England Swings'?

Thoughts?
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#1122565 - Wed Jan 13 2016 05:20 PM Re: New English National Anthem?
TabbyTom Offline
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Registered: Wed Oct 17 2001
Posts: 8477
Loc: Hastings Sussex
England UK
Frankly, I'd like to hear national anthems played far less frequently, especially at sporting events. A football match isn't a summit conference or a treaty signing; it's just a few people getting together to kick a ball around.

However, if the different countries of the UK continue to assert their separate identities, suppose an anthem for England may be appropriate. I don't think "Land of Hope and Glory" was ever intended to celebrate England alone, and I don't therefore think it's a good choice, especially as neither England nor the UK can seriously expect its bounds to be "set wider and wider" or to be made "mightier yet".

"There'll Always Be An England" is too closely bound up in my mind with World War 2, which (though some of my compatriots don't seem to have noticed) finished more than seventy years ago. It also seems to conflate England with the UK. "Red white and blue", for example, are the colours of the UK, not England.

"Jerusalem" may well be the best choice. Like "God Save The Queen", it has references to God and his Lamb which may not appeal to non-Christians, but scholars disagree mightily on what Blake's poem is really about, and the religious content doesn't deter the audience at the last night of the Proms.
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#1122567 - Wed Jan 13 2016 05:45 PM Re: New English National Anthem?
paper_aero Offline
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Registered: Fri Jan 06 2006
Posts: 6311
Loc: Crawley Sussex
England UK
Only one song should need consideration: "A Song of Patriotic Prejudice" by Flanders & Swann
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#1122590 - Wed Jan 13 2016 09:52 PM Re: New English National Anthem?
jabb5076 Offline
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Registered: Tue Apr 24 2012
Posts: 316
Loc: Georgia USA
I'm only British by ancestry, but I happen to love "Jerusalem." "God Save the Queen" is certainly spirited, but a song that celebrates the glory of the land rather than the monarchy seems somehow more meaningful.

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#1122621 - Thu Jan 14 2016 07:18 AM Re: New English National Anthem?
dippo Offline
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Registered: Sat Jun 14 2008
Posts: 742
Loc: London
England UK         
The problem with the current anthem is that it asks an entity many people do not believe in to 'save' a person whose position many people do not respect.

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#1122622 - Thu Jan 14 2016 07:33 AM Re: New English National Anthem?
Plodd Offline
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Registered: Thu Nov 19 2009
Posts: 212
Loc: Hampshire England UK         
I prefer "Jerusalem" out of all the options bandied around in the press.

Gareth Malone should get involved! Perhaps follow the latest trend by airing a television programme to search for England's new anthem with the vote going to the people for their preferred choice. Money raised through phone voting to go to charity.

I just feel that with other issues going on in the UK (and world) that politicians time and effort could be better spent rather than voting on whether England needs a new anthem.

IMOP.

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#1122816 - Fri Jan 15 2016 03:28 PM Re: New English National Anthem?
C30 Offline
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Registered: Sat Nov 13 2010
Posts: 221
Loc: Lancashire England UK         
I personally cannot think of any one existing tune/song.hymn/anthem that would fit the bill, therefore maybe just leave well alone?

Why would anyone WANT to build Jerusalem, for example, in what little "green and pleasant land" has not yet been built upon? We are unlikely to become "a land of hope and glory", nor does "Swing low sweet chariot", beloved by English Rugby fans. have much significance. So for want of anything better, maybe we should continue to ask God to "Save our Queen".

I suppose we COULD always adapt the wise song sung by England football (soccer) fans, known as the "Earwig Song".......?

"Erewigo, erewigo, erewigo,
erwigooooooooooh, erewigo"

....at least the words are easy to remember! Rofl

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#1122823 - Fri Jan 15 2016 03:56 PM Re: New English National Anthem?
sue943 Offline
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#1122840 - Fri Jan 15 2016 05:24 PM Re: New English National Anthem?
sisterseagull Offline
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Registered: Tue Aug 16 2011
Posts: 631
Loc: Torquay, Devon UK
Maybe, in order to keep everybody happy, we should take a leaf out of Spain's book and have just a piece of music? No references to God, the Queen or the establishment, just a piece of music that typifies England.

Surely there must be something suitable in the canons of Purcell, Handel, or some of the more recent composers such as Delius, Holst or Vaughan-Williams.

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#1122844 - Fri Jan 15 2016 06:01 PM Re: New English National Anthem?
Upstart3 Offline
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Registered: Tue Jun 04 2013
Posts: 227
Loc: Wales UK
I like 'Consider Yourself' by the great Lionel Bart.

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#1122856 - Fri Jan 15 2016 09:24 PM Re: New English National Anthem?
jabb5076 Offline
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Registered: Tue Apr 24 2012
Posts: 316
Loc: Georgia USA
Hehehe.....should have guessed you'd chime in Richard. "Consider yourself part of the furniture" strikes an appropriate welcoming tone!

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#1139174 - Fri Jul 01 2016 06:28 PM Re: New English National Anthem?
gracious1 Offline
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Registered: Tue May 01 2012
Posts: 1708
Loc: New York USA
Maybe someone should write a completely new anthem that reflects the cultural, religious, and political diversity of England, as well as its recent and more distant history. I just re-read Blake's poem, and it is very Christian-oriented, also pro-Revolution and anti-industrial ("dark Satanic mills"). It just doesn't sound like a great idea for an anthem.

Not that my country's anthem is perfect, either. The tune is a drinking song, and it's all about war. Lots of people have tried to get Congress to replace it with "America, the Beautiful", which celebrates the land, to no avail.
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#1139200 - Sat Jul 02 2016 07:55 AM Re: New English National Anthem?
agony Offline

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Registered: Sat Mar 29 2003
Posts: 16287
Loc: Western Canada
Quote:
I like 'Consider Yourself' by the great Lionel Bart.


Totally unironically, I'd be happy to take that as an anthem for my country.

Yesterday was Canada Day. I live in a very ethnically diverse part of a major Canadian city, and I always find it moving to see every possible colour of skin, all of us Canadian. At the provincial government building, not far from where I live, the Ismaili community always puts on a huge pancake breakfast, and new citizens are sworn in on the steps.

My daughter's boyfriend came here as a refugee, when he was four years old. Canada Day is his favourite holiday.

I'd be very happy to have "consider yourself one of us" in our anthem, rather than the ridiculous flap we are having right now, where some consider changing the wording slightly to include everyone to be sacrilege. (from "all thy sons" to "all of us")


Edited by agony (Sat Jul 02 2016 07:56 AM)

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#1139894 - Wed Jul 13 2016 04:10 PM Re: New English National Anthem?
darksplash Offline
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Registered: Sat Nov 03 2007
Posts: 505
Loc: Tyrone
Northern Ireland UK 
Originally Posted By: agony
Quote:
I like 'Consider Yourself' by the great Lionel Bart.


Totally unironically, I'd be happy to take that as an anthem for my country.

Yesterday was Canada Day. I live in a very ethnically diverse part of a major Canadian city, and I always find it moving to see every possible colour of skin, all of us Canadian. At the provincial government building, not far from where I live, the Ismaili community always puts on a huge pancake breakfast, and new citizens are sworn in on the steps.

My daughter's boyfriend came here as a refugee, when he was four years old. Canada Day is his favourite holiday.

I'd be very happy to have "consider yourself one of us" in our anthem, rather than the ridiculous flap we are having right now, where some consider changing the wording slightly to include everyone to be sacrilege. (from "all thy sons" to "all of us")


Maybe you should have "Song For Canada" as your anthem? Ian Tyson could probably use the royalties. smile

To get back to initial subject, it was interesting to listen to the anthems at the European football championships. Wales used "Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau" and the passion was obvious.

Both Northern Ireland and England used "God Save The Queen" - which is a dirge.

In UK terms, Wales have their anthem; Scotland have just adopted "Flower of Scotland"; Northern Ireland should use "Danny Boy" (aka "The Londonderry Air" and England should find their own.
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#1162082 - Tue Apr 04 2017 10:37 AM Re: New English National Anthem?
sisterseagull Offline
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Registered: Tue Aug 16 2011
Posts: 631
Loc: Torquay, Devon UK
As a staunch traditionalist and loyalist, I think we should leave well alone!

However, if pushed, I think we should go down the Spanish route and just have a piece of music as an anthem. Saying that, what could epitomise England more than 'Nimrod' from the 'Enigma Variations' by Sir Edward Elgar?

That would get my vote...

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#1162269 - Thu Apr 06 2017 04:08 AM Re: New English National Anthem?
Govannon8 Offline
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Registered: Tue Apr 04 2017
Posts: 66
Loc: Yukon Canada
I have got used to `God Save the Queen' and for my earlier school years, we sang this too.
If you are considering music for a new anthem, then it must be an inspiring choice.
I have always liked the theme music for the `Battle of Britain' film, back in `69 was the release, I believe.
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