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#1126293 - Sun Feb 14 2016 07:42 AM Gravity Waves
mehaul Offline
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Registered: Wed Feb 03 2010
Posts: 6516
Loc: Florida USA
There is no proof yet that Gravity Waves are how gravity transmits its attractive force. Some Physicists conjectured that a machine of the type they got billions to build would work to detect such waves. Some measurements were taken and the scientists have interpreted the results to 'prove' their supposition. What has been found and 'proven' is that the machine operated in a fashion to give some results. No 'proof' should be accepted until a different set of Scientists (including some doubters) run the experiment again and attain repeatable results.
Half this early claim to success is from the scientists and the other half of the hoopla is media driven. After all, how many starving families in Africa could have been fed by the money used to finance this experiment? Leaping from running a test to supplying a definitive answer is exactly how to avoid justifying the costs. Justifying the expenditure should come with benefits like the space program delivered. It follows on the heels of the constantly-breaking-down Large Hadron Collider of CERN that has increased human knowledge by a questionable smidgen (there are even smaller pieces of atomic particles to find - wow, what else is new - and oh, the internet but not the elusive Higg's Boson it was designed to detect). Please keep in mind some scientific advances don't hold up after some time of data and results' review. Remember 'Cold Fusion', please. Repeating the term of 'Proof' even used here on this site full of wise heads and accepted without question is not correct.
Scientific proof is a tall wall to go over. One idea about what constitutes 'Proof' can be found here.
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#1126368 - Mon Feb 15 2016 04:56 AM Re: Gravity Waves
mehaul Offline
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Registered: Wed Feb 03 2010
Posts: 6516
Loc: Florida USA
And there is no observation of the cause of the measurement. Until Cause is seen to produce Result (Effect), all that can be said is conjecture, not proof. Are they claiming 'proof' that gravitational waves exist? I can just as well say that a shift in the Earth's Center of Mass, a giant ball of Nickel and Iron may be not so spherical and its rotation could be measured as a point specific variation in the gravitational constant for Earth, 9.8 m/sec/sec as the non-uniform sphere rotated. That is not a wave but just a rhythmic shift of the center of mass. And even then, it only says matter is varying position. It tells nothing about how that attractive information is transmitted from point A to point B, whether it be by waves, field lines or some other unknown physics, This leaves us right where Einstein left off his studies, unable to attribute gravity as a related force to E/M.


Edited by mehaul (Mon Feb 15 2016 05:15 AM)
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#1126402 - Mon Feb 15 2016 10:00 AM Re: Gravity Waves
mehaul Offline
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Registered: Wed Feb 03 2010
Posts: 6516
Loc: Florida USA
In one way, gravity should be directional (to and from the source mass) but equal at equal distances (and thus parallel). To and from should vary in accordance to the inverse square law, ie, the field strength weakens by the reciprocal of the square of the distance from the source (example: at twice the distance, the field should be 1/4 the strength). My cursory read of the announcements gave no indication in any manner to this aspect of gravity. There was no direction given {just two black holes merging (which is a questionable statement in itself. Hawking claims Black Holes merge and treats the matter as two masses, piles of potatoes, coming together, to equal the sum of the masses in a larger Black Hole when it is actually two forces coming together (which is what Singularities are: point sources of gravitational force) more like a positive electric field meeting a negative electric field - one pulls to its center and the other pulls to its center, opposite directions there folks! - and cancelling out (I'm not saying they cancel their matter, that still exists but they cancel the gravity force of each other, bye-bye Singularities but that is another issue)}.
So, a good experiment would have given direction and a family of mass sizes to account for the amplitude of the wave. I've seen no announcements in those regards. Again, I see they built a machine saying it would give a result. They turned it on and got a result. Then jumped the shark to say that series of events means gravitational information moves from source to receiver by means of a wave.
Have I got this wrong? Can someone explain to me the error of my ways?
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#1131308 - Mon Mar 28 2016 10:47 PM Re: Gravity Waves
mehaul Offline
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Registered: Wed Feb 03 2010
Posts: 6516
Loc: Florida USA
NASA just announced that they saw something come out of a Black Hole. Surely this event caused gravity waves. Did the new gravity wave measuring machine pick it up? And that brings up an interesting aside. At what speed are these waves travelling at? the speed of light?
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#1131520 - Thu Mar 31 2016 04:10 AM Re: Gravity Waves
HairyBear Offline
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Registered: Fri Sep 01 2006
Posts: 711
Loc: Florida USA
While you can chalk me down as a gravity wave doubter, I disagree that pure science needs to produce anything to be worth the effort. Knowledge just for the sake of knowledge is enough. Scientists never know whether their research will result in anything when they are doing their research, anyway. When Einstein came up with E=MC^2, he was thinking of what made the sun tick, not how to blow up the world. When the laser was invented, no one thought at the time, "Hey, I'll bet we could scan boxes of mac & cheese at a grocery store with this thing!" You just never know.

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