This is for the Australians, and it's just a question. I just noticed that you've got a Joseph Bonaparte Bay on your northeast coast (also a Bonaparte archipelago, I forgot my atlas and am not sure right now). Anyway, I am REALLY wondering how the bay got that name. Does anyone know?

Good question Dobrov.

Named after Joseph Bonaparte, oldest brother of Napoleon, and King of Naples and Spain. Capt. Nicolas Thomas Baudin, born in 1750, became a well-known navigator and naturalist. When General Napoleon Bonaparte was made First Consul of France, Baudin appealed to Napoleon to allow him to command a scientific expedition etc. etc. More info at
www.mlssa.asn.au/journals/2001Journal.htm

Any other Aussies with more info?

[ 01-08-2002: Message edited by: Exit10 ]

[ 01-08-2002: Message edited by: Exit10 ]

This is why the name interested me, Exit 10. So how did Joseph Bonaparte get his name on a bay of respectable size in Australia?

Oh I don't know ... I tried and tried and all I keep getting is all about the minerals and ore up there. i admit I have never even heard of it before and a closer look on a map (of my own country... sheesh) reveals that it is indeed huge!

My only thought as to why it is relatively unknown is that that part of the country is very remote with very few people living there.

I'm going to keep on it ... you've aroused my curiosity now, Dobrov!

Thanks for the replies, Australians. Exit 10's from Alice Springs and Copago's from Outback (yikes) so you both sound pretty darn glamourous to me. I can think of only two possibilities, both remote. The first is that there was a surveyor out there who was a big Joseph Bonaparte fan, but this seems kind of unlikely because as far as I know, Joseph Bonaparte didn't have any fans. Even his brother thought he was, well, average. The other possibility, which is only slightly less remote, is that he planned to emigrate when things started to look really bad for him adn bought, or considered buying land in the area. I know that Napoleon himself was in the process of buying land on the Susquehanna River in the States when he got relocated to St. Helena, so maybe Joseph thought that this was a great idea, but he just wanted someplace further away. It's a big mystery to me. Thanks for the replies. anyone else know anything?

quote:

---

you both sound pretty darn glamourous to me

---

I'm not entirely sure how to take that (don't worry I'm smiling)! Exit10, what do you think? I know I scrub up pretty well on the odd occasion

I'm not sure about your buying land theory unless he wanted to get RIGHT away. It really is very remote and in those days would've been almost inaccesible in places. That's just my guess, I'll keep looking for you.

Copago

Personally, I think we're the two most glamorous people on this site.

Knowing what I do about that neck of the woods, Boney wouldn't have needed to purchase the land at that time. Simply to have squatted would probably have been enough. I work with a couple of people who have lived in that area so I should be able to pick their brains in a couple of weeks when they come back from hols.

There is still a fairly strong indigenous population up that way and a couple of hundred years ago would certainly have been a lot more.

As Copago says we'll keep looking for you.

Cheers

I found it! Boy, was I wrong. Lots of imagination, not much sense. Joseph Bonaparte Bay was named by French explorers (The Baudin expedition, I think) . Apparently Napoleon was really interested in Australia and Josephine had more species of Australian plants and animals in her gardens at Malmaison than existed anywhere else outside of Australia. That's great. Thanks a lot Exit 10 and Copago and don't be so modest. A pale, shivering person wearing about 40 kilos of winter wear and buried under a blanket of wet snow can really appreciate you sunburnished Australian people in that land where the creeks run dry or ten feet high. I read A Town Called Alice - you can't fool me. Thanks again.

Hey, do you think that's why mystery author Arthur Upfield named his detective Napolean Bonaparte? tjoeb};>

You've read the book, all you have to do now is visit the place.

Either the river is non-existant or it floods. That is no joke. The days in summer are around 43 Celsius and in winter at night about -5. No middle ground there either.

So when you decide on a change of climate drop in. You'll love it.

Good question! Copago knows I visited the place, took a coach across the country and made stopovers in the major cities over a month long period, including Kalgoorlie.
But we didn't get up North and frankly after seeing the "Picnic at Ayer's Rock" (wasn't that Peter Weir film?) I was just afraid I'd get knocked out and come back with a mysterious scar on my forehead!
Just kidding.

We got to spend about a month crossing it, in June, so it wasn't really cold yet. Wonderful trip.

That was Hanging Rock. Great film. Scared the life out of me, so that meant I had to see it about 16 times. That's an interesting theory about Napoleon Bonaparte the dective. I never read the books. Is Upfield still alive?

ONE DAY Exit 10, I am going to visit Alice Springs. I think this is something that is necessary for everyone. Bruyere, you're a lucky woman, although getting knocked out and coming back with a mysterious scar might be just the ticket these days. Harry Potter (the Major Motion Picture) is opening here in Feb. and the hysteria level is already way over the top.

WEll done Dobrov!

quote:

---

Either the river is non-existant or it floods

---

Hey Exit10, isn't it Alice Springs that the boat race has to be cancelled if there is water in the river??

Silly me, I knew it was hanging...that film haunts me still, just hearing the title does it!

How about the walkabout one, with school kids? Any truth to that one?

Well I don't think you're so silly because for one thing not in a million years could I remember the name of the director and for another I believe it was filmed at Ayer's Rock. This lead a whole generation of gullible foreigners to believe that Ayer's and Hanging Rock were one and the same. BTW, I understand that Ayer's Rock is now known by its aboriginal name. Is this official? Just wondering.

Yep, as far as I know it's official. Called Uluru now but there are still a few die hards that won't change it ... "it was always called Ayer's Rock when I was a kid" sort of thing. ("ah yes, but it wasn't always called Ayer's Rock".)

Yes Copago, the Todd River Regatta has had to be cancelled because there was water in it. For those who don't know, it is a race where you run along the dry river bed carrying your boat.

Upfield died in the 1960's, I don't know the origin of his naming of 'Bony' but I would think it highly unlikely he was titled from the Bonaparte Archipelago etc. I may be wrong.

Now Ayer's Rock and Uluru are interesting. 'The rock' was handed back to the traditional owners in 1985 and its official name is now Uluru, however, with a lot of things in life name changes come a lot more slowly e.g. talking inches to centimetres etc. So while the official name was Uluru there were still people calling it Ayers Rock and feeling awkward that this was what they were used to calling it and then realising that its correct name was Uluru (I know I was).
This was for the first couple of years.

Finally I get used to calling it Uluru as has the rest of the country I think. Then I moved to Alice Springs a couple of years ago which is the closest place to 'the rock', 465 km away, so it is no hop, skip and jump.

Most of the local people here call it either 'The Rock' or 'Ayers Rock' so when in Rome... Everyone in 'Alice' or 'The Alice' knows its traditional name but for some unknown reason to me, still uses the old name.

Your thoughts Copago?

BTW Picnic at Hanging Rock is based on book and has nothing to do with real life. Sorry Dobrov.

Oh well, I'll live. Life's full of little tragedies. Thanks for the update on Uluru, though.

My thought on the Uluru/Ayer's Rock thing ... I tend to reckon that most people who call it Ayer's Rock do so innocently ... (in the town where I grew up there was a department store that was called the "Western Store" then changed to "Myers" in the '70's and is now "Grace Bros" I sometimes still call it Myers and older people will still drop "Western Stores' in.)
But there are some people in Australia who still call Uluru "Ayer's Rock" because of the whole Aboriginal debate ... it's just their little way of saying that they're against all the land rights granted to Aboriginals (that is just my opinion).
I'm thinking that it is a different thing in Alice Springs because like you say it's the closest town to it ... but is that amongst the whole population or do the blacks call it Uluru and the whites Ayer's Rock?

So how about that walkabout film? I remember two schoolkids, maybe even English (I can see the Aussies smiling already) in their school uniforms and the Aborigenes adopted them and taught them how to survive. It was a good film.
By the way, I'm kind of happy that the film wasn't real! It was seriously spooky!

I never saw Walkabout, which is pretty strange because I tried to see every Australian movie in the world. I'm a little bitter about Picnic, but I'll get over it (I suppose). That's pretty interesting about Uluru. Maybe it's just that there are lots of people who call it Ayer's Rock because they're older and they forget or they feel kind of embarrassed. Others don't want to seem too wussy and politically correct, while some others will cling to the English name for darker reasons. Same thing in Canada with Eskimo/Inuit and Indian/Native Canadian terminology shift.
And Exit 10, it's interesting that in Alice Springs you say that people generally refer to it as Ayers Rock. Why is that? More interestingly, when is that boat race?

[ 01-13-2002: Message edited by: Dobrov ]

Well I think most indigenous people say Uluru but where I work, with a lot of indigenous lecturers, they visit aboriginal communities in the vicinity but don't actually visit the rock.

So they say they will be visiting Mutijulu (a community) or are on their way to the Pitlands (Pitjantjatjara area). There are lots of different areas in NT and all with completely different languages and then dialects within those languages.

I haven't seen Walkabout either, I shall check out our library. It should be there. What am I talking about, Copago knows the story about my TV and VCR.

Now the Todd River Regatta, all going well is usually held in Septemberish depending on the weather and other events that are happening such as the 'Camel Cup'. It is run by Rotary and is mainly a fundraiser. They have different events, including corporate teams and it's a lot harder than it looks. Basically it's a running race in sand and you have the frame of a rowboat covered in your logo etc. Half the fun is watching people fall over.

They also have a relay where a 3 person team has to 1) slide along a track on a flat bed trolley on your stomach and tag to 2) a runner and tag to 3) another runner. All quite good fun really. They also have sausage sizzles, baked potatoes and lots of food and drink stalls.

That sums it up really. So that's a good time to come if it's not too hot.

We were always taught to say Uluru out of respect for the traditional people of that area, but I understand that it can be tricky trying to break old habits on that one....
I actually did see Walkabout, but that was an awfully long time ago. It's all a bit fuzzy in my head, but from what I remember it was quite good...

I think the Uluru/Ayers Rock terminology also depends a lot on where you are from as well. Similar to what Copago said, I know that most people from the eastern seaboard say Uluru and arrive here on holiday and have difficulty or are confused when local people say Ayers Rock.

Also there is a lot of terminology between Aboriginal and white people here that would be extremely offensive in Melbourne but is the norm here and nobody is offended at all. Strange little place I live in.

Most employer organisations have 'cultural awareness' programs for staff which is good as well.

Sorry for having to go off the point: but just wondering how your monolith or the Ayers rock was formed?