I'm wondering if anyone out there is interested in a particular historical event (or rather, a series of historical events) that seem to be coming back to haunt a new generation. Chancellor Schroeder of Germany recently cancelled a planned trip to the Czech Republic because of his concern with a series of legislative acts, the Benes Decrees. These were articles of legislation passed between 1940 and 1945 in London by the Czechoslovakian government-in-exile under President Eduard Benes.

According to the Decrees, 2.5 million ethnic Germans (Sudetendeutsch) and approximately 40,000 Hungarians were lost their Czechoslovakian citizenship, their land was expropriated and they were exiled. This transition was carried out over 1945-46, and was in many cases badly administered and brutal. Many people lost their lives. Ethnic Czechs were moved in to fill the empty towns.

Of course, this all stems back to the Munich Accord of September 1938, when Britain, France and Italy sold out Czechoslovakia and allowed Hitler to annex the Czech Sudentenland. The majority of the Sudetendeutsch were all for annexation - the social and economic superiority they traditionally held over ethnic Czechs in Austro-Hungarian Bohemia and Moravia had undergone a sea change after 1918. Too-close economic ties with postwar Germany caused their standard of living to plummet,while the rest of the country enjoyed the same standard of living as Switzerland. They saw Hitler as a way back to the good old days and to a great extent supported the German troops who occupied the country in March of 1939. Much of the brutality, deserved or undeserved, that they experienced in 1945 was retaliatory.

The situation is now this. The Germans and the Austrians are demanding that the Benes Decrees be struck from the books and that without this there can be no EU entry for the Czech Republic (somehow, Slovakia is temporarily off the hook). Some Czechs agree, more argue that this is only the first in a series of demands, and anticipate mass lawsuits and demands for restitution. Such an eventuality would economically cripple this stable but struggling small state. Many fear that it will enter the EU not as a strong and independent democracy, but a slave state owned by German interests.

So what do you think? Do you agree with Neville Chamberlain that this is a small faraway state about which you know nothing, or do you have an opinion?

When visiting Czechia I remember meeting a professor of a German Technical Hochschule (Magdeburg) whose family had been obliged to leave Czechia and to live in what then was East-Germany.
It was the first time I heard of postwar 'reprisals' being taken against the Germans in 'Sudetenland' even against those who had not been involved in collaboration with the nazis.
When visiting the Castle in Prague there was a lady in a bookshop who told me that there were various reasons why Franz Kafka never had been popular with the Communist regime in Czechoslowakia so that the western tourists even had problems to find his works in the very town where he had lived.In the little street within the precinct of the Castle area where he had lived, his house was hardly marked. The reasons given were: 1. he had been a enemy of totalitarianism and bureaucracy 2. he was a Jew 3. he had written IN GERMAN.
Her point of view was : being a German in Czechia was not a pleasant situation.
So I can imagine some Germans who had to leave their Sudetenland after the war, feel they have been unjustly dealt with.
What I have a problem with is that the Czech State should have to pay a second time for what happened in the Second World War.
Many Germans from Sudetenland will probably have been indirectly involved in the sufferings of the Czech people during the war.
The collective 'retribution' for the 'bad behaviour of those Sudeten-Germans' during World War II will certainly have done harm to innocents too. But how do you tell them apart?

My personal impression is that the German State is rich enough to take it upon itself to settle this matter and there is certainly no justification for "Euro-blackmailing" the Czechs.

Only I know how difficult it is to judge what is or has been going on in other countries. Especially because I have often noticed what completely hilarious interpretation non- Belgians sometimes have of our local "linguistic" (??) quarrels and also of the wildly absurd propositions outsiders make to solve OUR problems.
It's only when you know the more profound roots of a problem that you should dare to offer an opinion or an advice.
But at first sight, restoring rights to the Sudeten Deutsche from the Second World War is not anything that should happen at the expense of the present Czech state.

The whole thing vividly illustrates Western *hypocrisy*. The Benes decrees were an act of what would now be called 'ethnic cleansing' on a vastly greater scale than anything that has happened in the last dozen years or so in the former Yugoslavia.

Even if the majority of 'Sudetendeustsche' were predominantly pro-Nazi in the period c. 1935-45 I don't see how their expulsion can be justified. (To argue that they were 'traitors' or 'the Nazis' Trojan horse' in Czechoslovkia just isn't good enough).

Btw, there was 'ethnic cleansing' (or 'population transfer' as it was called at the time) on an even greater scale by Poland after WW2, with Britain and the US as willing accomplices: they actually sat down with the Polish authorities to agree on how many thousand expelled Germans a day they would accept, where, and on what conditions.

Alas, none of this helps with the civil side of the matter ...

[ 04-14-2002, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: bloomsby ]

Dobrov, I think it would help if told us what has happened in the case of case of Czechs whose property was seized under Communist rule.

As for Sudetendeutsche who lost property, my initial reaction would be that they should, at least in principle, be treated in the same way, though there may need to be some adjustments, as most or all of these people have *already* received partial compensation from the old West German government - albeit primarily for being expellees, rather than as compensation for loss of property.

Clearly, it's important to try to avoid a stream of lawsuits. This would: 1) revive all manner of tensions and 2) harm the Czech economy. After all, who would want to invest in the Czech Republic if they knew that any day someone claiming to be the great-grandchild or whatever of an expelled Sudetendeutsch family could suddenly lay claim to the land on which a company is operating?

Obviously, I'm aware that such problems are widespread in the former Soviet bloc countries.

Well, let me answer your question first, Bloomsby. As far as I know, the German government has offered little or no restitution to Czechs for loss of property or life during the Protectorate. Some Jewish families in the country have received something and the Czech government has been actively encouraging them to seek redress, but that's about it.

Be that as it may, I am quite convinced that the rights of the Sudetendeutsche are not the real issue here. Germany was interested in the rights of the ethnic Germans living in the Czech Lands on only one other occasion - 1937/38. In fact, the Germans and the Czechs signed a 'We're Terribly Sorry' agreement in 1998, apologizing for everything on both sides and at that time the matter was considered closed.

The Sudetendeutsche have a number of fairly strong organizations, the most notable of which is the Sudeten Landsmanschaft (Germany), headed by one Bernd Posselt, who is also a member of the European Parliament. He and other Sudetendeutsche have been, rather disgustingly, comparing their situation with that of the Jews. Mr. Posselt has recently opened a branch office of the SL in Prague which is there, he explains, not to disseminate propaganda, but to distribute information - a nice distinction that completely escapes me. Nonetheless, these groups have never (up until now) enjoyed much support from either the German or Austrian governments. In fact, it is the extreme right-wing Austrian Freedom Party that began raising the issue again last year.

Further, Bloomsby is right in pointing out that this problem is not exclusive to the former Czechoslovakia. Roughly 11 million Germans were expelled from Central and Eastern European lands after 1945. Not only Poland did this, but much of central Romania was German-speaking. The German communities along the Volga weren't even lucky enough to be expelled from their homes. They merely vanished. 11 million people is a huge diaspora by anyone's calculations and certainly the problem must be addressed. However, why now and why only Czech Republic? Why isn't anybody mentioning that the Benes Decrees were ratified at the Potsdam conference and the second expulsion, in late 1945, was administered by Allied overseers and the Red Cross? The question of accountability is a sticky one.

An extremely bright 18-year-old pointed out to me today that the way she saw it was this. In 1938 Chamberlain and Daladier showed that even within Europe there were two kinds of states - the big, old, powerful ones and the new, small and struggling ones. The big and powerful ones could, in their best interests, justifiably sell the small ones right down the river with no loss of honour. She wants to know why, despite Munich, despite Potsdam, that the same thing seems to be happening all over again.

Hi Dobrov. Many thanks. Perhaps I was a shade harsh in my last response(s). If so, please accept my apologies.

I know the 'Landsmannschaften' are still influential pressure groups in Germany, but the whole situation is so absurd that I wonder if Gerhard Schroeder is being entirely serious or honest about this. Here I keep on reading stories in the media to the effect that Germany isn't very keen on enlarging the EU, and Schroeder is, so it is claimed, trying to delay the process.

Btw, further east there's a blazing row between Hungary and Slovakia about population transfer in 1945-47 ...

I agree with flem that the Czech government and people should *not* be asked to pay compensation.

You rightly point out that the Czechs have not received any compensation for damage and loss of life during German occupation. In practice, since the end of WW2, governments (and individuals) have not sought compensation (on any scale). Neither the Dutch government nor individual property owners have claimed compensation for the bombing of Rotterdam or Middelburg; the British government has not sued the German government for the destruction of civilian targets in WW2, no-one has yet demanded compensation for the destruction of Hamburg and Dresden by the RAF and the USAF ...

I find it very unfortunate indeed that in 2002 the international community still hasn't laid the ghosts of WW2 and its immediate aftermath to rest.

Whatever next? N'doubt the Heydrich family will soon demand compensation, too!

It seems that there has so far been a general acceptance that every country has to pay for its own misfortunes.

[ 04-15-2002, 07:17 PM: Message edited by: bloomsby ]

I don't see how in any way your replies were unduly harsh. They were well informed and interesting, as usual. And by the way, it's 5:32 a.m. here and I see from the crawl at the top of the page that you are on line, which means that it's 4:32 there, which means that you are up at an ungodly hour. Maybe they just seem harsh because you are very, very tired.

Yes, the SL is a very influential organization, but for years they have gotten absolutely nowhere. There is another reason that Germany is supporting their claims now - it was only 4 years ago that they officially declared the subject closed. Possibly it is to delay the enlargement of the EU, but this seems strange too. They have been traditionally all for CZ's entry becuase that would mean that CZ, and not Germany, was the new back door of Europe, and the flood of illegal immigrants that Germany presently has to deal with would presumably become a Czech problem. Austria has been far more vociferous in blocking Czech claims - the Temelin nuclear power plant issue is an ongoing problem and the fight lately has become very ugly - certain Austrian gov't officials recently spread it about that it was Czech policemen and not German soldiers, that performed the action at Lidice. This is absurd adn disgusting (there are photos, documents and even a film clip that says different), but it show the level to which things have sunk.

I am personally convinced that few to no Sudeten claims will ever get to court. Germany has an agenda, though, and what it is I don't know. Certainly our beloved Prime Minister Milos Zeman didn't do any good when he characterized the Austrians as "idiots" and the Sudetendeutsche as "traitors" and "fifth columnists" in an interview last month. He also reminded everyone that close to 90% of the Sudetendeutsche voted for Konrad Henlein and his Nazi-controlled Sudetendeutsche Partei in '37. Not good. Then he went to Israel and compared Yassar Arafat to Hitler and the Palestinians to the Sudetendeutsch. Sigh. That man must be drunk all the time.

The big problem is this. Germany is the last country on earth that should be demanding full-scale grovelling for past 'ethnic cleansing'. Furthermore, Hungary has opened a new can of worms in its demands for reparations for Hungarians in Czechoslovakia. The Hungarian regime in Slovakia before 1918 was unbelievably brutal and there are just a whole lot of things that don't bear bringing up any more at all.

Hi, Dobrov. Yes, I'm often a night-owl.

I'm perturbed to hear that Zeman has apparently been clowning. That won't help matters.

If the German government has a 'hidden agenda', it surely relates primarily to 1) agricultural subsidies for new members of EU and, above all, 2) to the wide, flat and relatively open eastern borders of Poland and Hungary - and the fear of 'floods' of migrants from the Ukraine, Belarus, Russia and Romania - and further afield.

Btw, I was interested to read what you wrote about the ethnic Germans in Russia. In fact, many of them were deported to Kazakhstan. In the late 1980s there were 1.8 million in the then Soviet Union, and quite a number have resettled in Germany, since Gorbachev allowed those who so wished to leave (1988ff). About a year ago I had a pupil from such a background. She'd started her schooling in Kazakhstan, then her family had migrated to Germany and settled in Cologne. Well, I mustn't bore people with all this ...