This was posted elsewhere first, but someone suggested that I move it to "Administration - Feedback" as the august Terry HIMSELF moderates this section of the forum. I hope I got the right pigeonhole! (Originally posted here: http://www.funtrivia.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1158605#Post1158605 - Forums » Fun & Games » Games & Challenges)


I don't post very often in these Forums, but I am becoming increasingly frustrated with how the win in the Championship Division is assigned. It seems that I am finishing behind one, two or possibly even three or more players who have won a topic as a Champion YEARS ago.

My proposal is this: If the top finisher(s) already has the win in that topic in the Championship Division, then the win should go to the next player down the list (2nd, 3rd, etc.) who has not won the Championship in that topic.

This is something that computers can do really well and quickly!

I don't have a problem with people playing a game that they like, 24 times a day, as quickly as they can for the most bonus points (Top 10). But let's face it: some of our competitors have the ANSWERS memorized and don't even have to read the questions.

I also have no problem with competition and being bested by my betters (losing). I just want to win my share of games toward the Championship Expert badges without running into the same players all day and night.

Would appreciate some feedback on my idea.

Thanx, Chevy a/k/a Humanist

A fair number of us continue playing topics in the Champion division in order to rise in the Champion ratings.

If this does happen (and I'm easy either way), I think you should have to achieve a certain score before being eligible, regardless of how many people above you have already got the badge/credit/win.

Otherwise, you will get a situation akin to that which exists in some of the Hourly Games (e.g Obscurity), where so many people have already won the Monthly Badge that you barely need to turn up to get it. EG, using Obscurity again, of this month's "Top 10" in the running for the badge, the one in 10th place is in 159th place (out of 330) and has only played 7 times in the whole of February.

In my view, you shouldn't be getting a badge for that.

I think that the point of winning in the Champions Division is that you have the satisfaction of beating those other players. Surely the win is devalued if you only actually finished third, or fifth. I know some players in the Championship Division, myself included, often choose not to play topics they've already won, but there are times, particularly for Daily Challenges, where you have to play your best topics even if you've won them several times. Not that it necessarily guarantees that you'll win again, of course, as questions do vary so much.

I agree with stedman's comments about the hourly games. I thought Terry had decided that the badges would be limited to players in the top 100, but maybe I've remembered that incorrectly.

I also agree with stedman's comments about the hourly games.

I am importing the only response to my post from the original thread, even though it is not supportive of my position, just to be fair:



--------------

OK, I understand the ratings and Daily Challenges aspects. Badges should not come cheaply.

Here's another way: perhaps it's time to create a third tier above the Champion's Division - perhaps call it Emeritus or something else really super! - just for those who have won in the CD.

My frustration is valid: I have scored 14 with a low time yet still have been beaten by regulars scoring 15 with, shall I say, an "inflated" time, much longer than their usual effort!

That's a clear sign to me that they are looking up those one or two answers needed to win once they see my score and time. We know this happens.

Anyway, an Emeritus level is the best I can come up with unless a new rule is adopted that the win should go to the next player down the list (2nd, 3rd, etc.) who has not won the Championship Division in that topic.

To this we might add some sort of rule about the minimum number of (other) players who must have played in that hour's game.

Chevy

P.S. And thanx to those of you who have already responded.

I also try to not play when I've won the Champion division (daily challenges excepted). I don't care about the Elo ratings but that's an important aspect of the game to other players.

If I remember correctly, the Champions division was created for this very reason. Same players winning depriving others of a win. Then players wanted badges for winning games in the Champs division - a sort of 'best of the best' badge. It doesn't make sense to dilute the winning criteria or create any higher, new levels because it defeats the purpose of this particular badge.

Disclaimer: I haven't won this badge either.

Chevy, always nice to see your posts or messages but I strongly disagree with you here. The main reason for the champions divisions being created was because many players got shirty about not being able to win the badges for the hourly games because of the block of great players that would win repeatedly.

So we got champions divisions which are supposed to be a place where, if we happen to have the status, we can play at our best without fear of someone getting fed up of those winners. The best versus the best and you got to beat the best to be the best and all that.

Expert happens to be one of my favourite games on the site too, as it is for many, so the rare times when one of my favourite categories comes up I'm darn well going to play it and I want to win it too! I like the competition! Take last night, I was awake late and looked at my phone and saw Football Players was on! What's more I saw Upstart3 had the top score, a good score, so I thought 'I really want to try to win that'. I got one second faster but looking back at the results this evening it seems that dizart nipped in ahead of me too but I want to be challenged especially in the ones I haven't won yet. I have 40 different champions victories in expert, I want to get to 75 but I really want to do it by defeating the best in each category I don't want the challenges diluted even if it takes some of them out of my reach. There are so many easy challenges on this site already, lets leave the ones that are mighty tough as they are.

Thank you all for your comments.

I think this issue is DoA. I just won my 13th Championship this weekend - almost a fluke. I will stop with 20 and that badge, rather than go insane trying to achieve 75!

The King of (Various) Trades badges are badges meant in the same vein as Smartest of the Smart and Mix Winner - they require that you beat not just your division but the entire player base of the site.

Like the others of this kind, they're meant to be exclusive and even the 20 one is quite an achievement.

I never thought I would get as many as I have, I put it down to dogged persistence and a bit of blind luck. Some categories I know nothing about have a smaller amount of players and it's possible to win the category even in Champion mode. I've won with 9 or 10 out of 15 before in some categories.
Don't give up Chevy, you can do it!

Mark

----------------------

Chevy back with a new post!

I won this hour's (Mar 29 17 - 10:45 AM) Championship Division Expert game earlier this month, to wit:

People by Surname (Champion Division, beat 37 players) Mar 12 17 - 9:45 AM

I am not playing it now - why would I? But I understand if one needed to play it to win another badge, for example, as part of the Epic Challenge. There are scads of ways to simply earn more points on this site! As for the ELO ratings, it seems that all one has to do is play his favorite categories to boost his place in the standings, once he has Championship wins in the games in which he is less confident of being able to do so.

Anyway, it seems to be a dead issue or, as the French say: "Les carottes sont cuites!"

Thanx again to all who responded, even if we disagree!

Cheers, Chevy

P.S. Earlier this morning, I won my 14th Championship in Corporations. Slowly, but surely, my badge will come!

None of this makes it any less frustrating when you're in the lead in a Champions category that you haven't won before, and someone who already has the "King" badge comes along at the last minute and beats you into second place, apparently just for the fun of it. Grrr.

I know the feeling. Though the last time I expressed a similar sentiment, I got a lengthy lecture from someone who felt my complaint equated to trying to dictate how people should play.

The other player may or may not have even been aware of whether or not they were going to win, just wanting to play the topic. It seems to me unreasonable to ask people not to play their favorite topics just because they have already won it, and the person who is currently leading may not have done so. Of course, that is easy for me to say, since I don't aspire to win, I just play if I happen to see a topic that appeals, and am pleasantly surprised if I happen to notice that my number of wins has gone up. If I were seriously chasing one of the badges, I would probably feel more committed to the whole thing.

I don't play often, but when I do it never occurs to me to check whether I have won the category before or not - I'm just in the mood to play this sort of game so I play. Even back when I was chasing Jack and King of all Trades I didn't really pay really close attention. And now I couldn't even tell you what badges are available for the game.

Not everyone is playing competitively. I like to win the specific game I'm playing, but don't know and don't care where that all stands in the larger sense. So the person who beats you may in fact BE doing it just for the fun of it - not the fun of ruining your chances, but the fun of playing a quick game that they feel like playing.

I am somewhat on the fence on this subject. I generally tend to stay clear of topics I have a champ win in (but if for instance...I have the "I'm the Expert" daily challenge, it is open season), but I would vehemently back the right of those with the badge to play it again (and again...and again :p). I personally couldn't care less about the ELO race and I too have been known to lightly curse the usual suspects when one of them bumps me out of first, but it is all in the name of fun play and I am over it within a few minutes.

Ok fine...sometimes an hour or two if I REALLY wanted the particular topic

How does one know if the person in first place doesn't have the champion win? Are we supposed to dig into their profile before playing, just in case we may be spoiling it for them?

(Spoken as one who has only 3 champion wins, but doesn't care who plays.)

Well, that's what I usually do, anyway.

The point of the Kings is also to beat everyone. If all those who won stopped playing, they would just be the same as the Jacks (after all being moved to champs just removes the player from eligibility on non-champ).

So don't feel bad if you "deprive" someone of their win - you're doing your part to keep the Kings as exclusive as they were intended. (Says the guy who has been sitting on 19 champs for six months before finally finding that elusive 20th).

My strategy, not that anyone cares what I think, but if I have a championship win say with 20 other players playing in that hour, then I'm not going to play the category again unless it has over 20 players. That way I can always have that as a badge of honor that I beat 20 other experts versus 5, or 10, or 12 or whatever. But that also means if a category comes up that I've won in the past, I may have to be sure to check back before :45 after the hour to see if the number has been exceeded.

I guess I don't understand how this works, but if you have a championship win, you have it period, correct? Or can it be taken away from you?

I think what happens is your most recent win is the one posted, so you could go from having beaten 40 others being what is shown, to only 20 if you play and win later.

Did that make sense?

(Note: Sue is not talking to herself. We just both have the same avatar.)

That makes me laugh every time I see it.