For those who like authoring, the quiz is probably the easier option at that point. The choice is meant to reward authors a bit. But it's not mandatory, you can do the other option.

FWIW I think it was very wise to have the option to avoid question-writing. Some players like doing it but there are a lot of people who loathe it. There is at least one person on our team who still hasn't finished Race II because he got to the requirement to write questions and gave up; he's very busy (new child etc) and just doesn't have the time or energy to write questions. The option is great.

Actually it always puzzles me a bit that the Race 2 requirement is hitting so hard. It's a mere two single questions without any stipulations regarding what they are about. I'm sure everyone has a favorite movie, song, hobby or sport to share a fact or two about.

Yes, I find it puzzling, too. Would some of those who loathe it be able to share what the problem is? If a little tweaking of the procedure would make a difference it might be possible.

By that I mean the question acceptance procedure, not the race itself. Is it the research people hate? The editorial process? Worry that their grammar and spelling is not up to snuff? What is it that's difficult or unpleasant?

Agreed-- I would think it's quicker to write a single question than to take a dozen or more quizzes to achieve a certain score.

It's not about speed for me. I do not like to write, as an assignment. I'm perfectly capable of researching, and of writing a coherent paragraph about that research. If it takes months, and I can avoid writing, so be it (assuming I ever get to Race 3).

Currently, I'm at the writing part of Race 2. I've been there for several months, after submitting a quiz that disappeared. First, the Race said that it was waiting for approval on the one I submitted. A couple of days later, it said that I still had two to write. No one told me there was a problem with the one that I had submitted, much less what the problem was. It hasn't been worth it to me to pursue the issue.

I wrote the two questions not caring if they were accepted, or not. One wasn't, the other was accepted. One should care. If they care then the site gets quality.

I like the quiz race(s) because it allows me to take quizzes in sections I tend to stay away from because they are not my strongsuit. Like I took an owl quiz, I swear at the end I was telling myself I got them all wrong because animals isn't my strongsuit which is ironic since I live on a farm (should be noted: I lived in Orlando for 30 years, Stuttgart, Germany for two years). I guessed every answer; I lucked out and got all of them right. Maybe I knew some of the answers and I just didn't know I knew them. And I don't necessarily mind having to do hourlies and/or dailies though on a phone my time is offset by 15 seconds so trying to complete something that requires a specific time limit, at times, can be difficult even in my strongest category (Movies). But it's a challenge and I like the challenge but being forced to write questions or quizzes; there's already so many different authoring games that have that.

Some people are quiz writers most people are not. I'm not a very good quiz or question writer. I want to be. I'm not very good at literalism. I never graduated high school, never went to college. Don't even have a GED. I found out in my early thirties I have dyscalculia. All I can do is add. Really excellent at adding. Can't do anything else. The education system I went through didn't care about kids like me. We had learning disabilities and they had no clue (if they even cared) what those were where I went to school. They just passed us to the next grade. I had a fifth grade reading level by the time I was four years old but failed math every single time. They took me out of advanced classes in English, History, and Science and put me in remedial classes and those classes weren't for those with learning disabilities as the word defines but for "troublemakers". And they gave up on me, and the rest of us. When we turned 18 they kicked us out. Sometimes when I come here I feel like I'm back in that school system.

What I mean by that is there seems to be a presumption that we're all the same, intellectually speaking. We're not. There are an "elite" few here who are in a class of their own; and then there's the rest of us: the above average, average, and below average. Which means our writing abilities are lacking which I assume is why most these types of games have the same basic author quizzes in them, based on their quality. And that's my point: you want quality from those who participate. Forcing people, in a game like this one, to do something they are not confident they can do makes less the people play in other games. Plus, some people just don't have the time. Options are always great. I mean, if they know what they're getting themselves into before starting the game, that's one thing but I was surprised at the fact I might have to write a quiz; and trust me: it would not have been quality on my part if I was forced to write one. Not because I wouldn't want it to be but because I would want to get back to the quiz RACE. It's in its name. It's a "race" to the finish line. My goal is to always try to be in the top 100. I know I most likely will never be in the top ten of anything so I strive for a wider field. I'm sure others do something similar. Trying to beat a genius in an hourly is tough, sometimes us average people get lucky -- we get the top spot when those people aren't here. /partially sarcasm

I'm just saying...options are always good.

-Nam

I completely agree with you that not everyone on this site-- the vast majority, in fact-- is a writer. And we don't expect everyone to be.

The 'Race' aspect of the game derives from 'The Amazing Race', from which I took the basic premise for the authoring side of the game in the Author Lounge. For those who don't know, the quizzes for the 'Great Race' on the homepage by and large come from that (with a couple other Lounge challenges added in). In writing the 'Great Races', Wes (and I, briefly) just took the same inspiration, following the storyline along journeys around the globe. Just as reasonably, we could have called it 'The Quiz Journey'. I'm glad to see people taking a competitive edge on it; I think that's a healthy thing to do.

That said, I would be lying if I didn't think that, in order to have a full reflection of what this site has to offer, authoring was good to be involved. Just like in Ascension, I think it contributes to the well-roundedness of our players as they complete our more difficult and adventurous challenges.

It's not for everyone in the same way that playing Video Games quizzes isn't for everyone. Or playing 'Who Am I?'. Or getting badges. But all of those are in the 'Great Race' too.

Yes, options are always good, but I would argue that if it were me, and I were given the option to write for every daily/hourly scoring stage of 'The Great Race' or 'Ascension', I would take it in a heartbeat.


If it's any consolation, I haven't finished the second chunk of the race either. Getting people to write the quizzes is full-time.

Interesting responses. It is clear that there are a number of reasons people don't like writing questions and since even the requirement to write two was enough to make players give up on a good game, there appears to be no good reason not to offer the option.
There are a large number of writing challenges and badges and badgelets awarded for doing them so it seems unnecessary to force players to do it outside of that. I would argue that it shouldn't be part of Ascension Quest either but I can at least understand it for that one, the ultimate challenge.
I did find the comment "I think it contributes to the well-roundedness of our players" a bit odd - people do not come here to be well-rounded, they come to have fun and do not want to be forced to be well-rounded.
Postcards said it succinctly, "I do not like to write, as an assignment", a view shared by many.
Thanks for the great game.

I don't think there's any forcing though.

I agree that people aren't coming here to be well-rounded necessarily, but challenges have objectives. I'm confident that people would argue about the scores they need to achieve for the daily/hourly challenges in there (they have-- that's why they diminish over time) or that they have to jump into a niche they don't like (they have-- we've done so much of this in the past that we've made significant efforts to fix things in several categories; Government and Languages in World come to mind off the top) or that they have to have a certain badgelet or yada yada yada.

Two single questions is no different from the Daily Challenge that asks, pretty much, for the same thing.


To give a bit of context-- it's part of my job around here to spur authorship, so I'm not going to come on here and say 'you're right-- we should nix authoring from the game'.
That said, our (what?) six dozen authors(? less?) who participated in the three races thus far...not all of them were prolific authors. Some contributed in their teams in different ways. Some didn't even cross the finish line in conventional ways. I like to reward people who step outside of their comfort zone. I like to see people come out the other side of the queue saying 'huh...that was actually pretty easy.'

We've made great efforts to relax our authoring guidelines over the years and our editors are always available to help. I would be more than happy to help our more hesitant players to cross that stage of the game. Any topic. Any category.

If writing two single questions is 'an assignment', then so is 'play twelve quizzes and score 6 on each' or 'play the World Quiz and score x amount'. Let's break the stigma; I want to help you guys out. Let's have fun with it, even if you don't think you're good at writing.

"it's part of my job around here to spur authorship"

I think this is colouring your view:
"Two single questions is no different from the Daily Challenge that asks, pretty much, for the same thing"
You cannot be serious! Not doing a Daily Challenge might mean you lose a couple of credits which aren't worth much anyway and you get a new challenge the next day. By contrast, not doing them in a multi-week challenge like the GQR which results in a badgelet and a badge is a real impediment to members' enjoyment for otherwise excellent games.

"If writing two single questions is 'an assignment', then so is 'play twelve quizzes and score 6 on each' or 'play the World Quiz and score x amount'."
If you really believe these are equal, then give the paying members the choice of their assignment; don't impose your view on them!

Ultimately the website is here for the players, the players are not here for the editors, moderators and game-creators, something which sometimes appears to be overlooked. OK, rant over :-)

It's a bit late to argue over the requirements of the first two races, since they are there, and they are what they are. It would not be fair on players who have already completed them to change the rules now, and remove the writing component (any more than it would be fair to let them write a quiz instead of having to play 30 quizzes on topics about which they know nothing, or get a good score on the Daily or Hourly game they have been studiously avoiding for years because they do not enjoy the experience of playing it). It seems to me that the objection some players feel to being asked to write a question on some topic, and provide a sentence of explanation about their question and answer, has been addressed in the latest version, which does offer alternatives.

Maybe we should run a tutorial on constructing single questions. It is quite easy to write one, even if it is much more difficult to write one that will have the right degree of difficulty and interest to become a part of the timed games. That level of accomplishment is not required in the races, just a question that meets the basic requirements. And who knows, it might just strike a chord out there, and be highly successful!

Well said, L_T! And it never hurts to encourage people to write. Where else would we get our game questions from otherwise?

I hate the, "Write two questions" Daily Challenge. I write when inspiration strikes. Two acceptable questions is not easy. What is easy is writing two awful questions, sure to be rejected, that will just take up an Editor's time. You still get the Credits either way.

"It's a bit late to argue over the requirements of the first two races"
Agreed, let's just avoid it in future.

"it never hurts to encourage people to write. Where else would we get our game questions from otherwise?"
Also agreed, encouragement is fine, forcing players to do it is not.

I wasn't going to comment any further but after the note about encouragement to write quizzes it seemed appropriate to check current encouragements to write either quizzes or questions. Here they are:

An Author Challenge
Mini Challenge

Quiz Commission
Mini Challenge

TRICster
Mini Challenge

Authoring Cook
Mini Challenge

Question Quest: 50
Major Challenge

Five Categories
Major Challenge

FunTrivia Agent
Mini Challenge

Author
Major Challenge

TRIC X
Mini Challenge

TRIC Y
Mini Challenge

TRIC Z
Mini Challenge

Ten Categories
Major Challenge

FunTrivia Cadre
Mini Challenge

TRIC Trophy
Major Challenge

Sous Chef
Mini Challenge

Fifteen Categories
Major Challenge

Executive Author
Major Challenge

Prolific Author
Major Challenge

Food Innovator
Mini Challenge

Question Quest Author Challenge
Major Challenge

Cool Quizzes
Major Challenge

Super Author
Major Challenge

Authoring Chef
Major Challenge

Editor's Choice
Major Challenge

Epic Author
Major Challenge

Authoring Executive Chef
Major Challenge

Question Quest Challenge 2
Major Challenge

I have a document where I save questions when the inspiration strikes, specifically for that Challenge. It is then just a simple cut and paste into the template, and only takes a few minutes.

I thought of looking at the number of winners for both badges after reading this thread. 1221 players have won the first one while only 313 have completed the 2nd part. Would there be a way of seeing how many have seemingly given up at the question writing stage? There was so much of effort put into creating this race including the players who wrote the quizzes and the editors, that it would be a shame if players are losing interest because of the writing requirement.

It's a great thing for us to have on an author's record too. :s
Helps on editing down the road.

If it comes down to submitting junk just for points, what's the point? It's like playing through quizzes clicking random answers in hope that you win a badge or badgelet at the end. Such a time-sink.



In the second race, there are a lot of people stuck at the question-writing stage, the 'Strength Training' stage (wrestling/exercise quizzes), the quizzes about specific TV shows.

Unfortunately, I don't have the numbers earlier than that to see the bunch-ups of Race 1.



Part of this could also be the date of release. More people likely played the first one since it came out by virtue of it being around longer.

I would hope that badges/badgelets aren't the only motivating factor for quiz-writing on the site. :s



Again-- if all of the tasks are being seen as assignments, then I don't see how 'fun' factors in....unless your thing is assignments. If I came in here saying that people shouldn't impose daily games on me and that there should be an option for me to write a quiz for each of those opportunities, wouldn't that be just as fair an argument?



I jumped into this conversation to help out with a bit of insight from my side of things. I didn't write 'The Great Race', but I do have a hand in its continued development in an indirect way. And with that, I think Wes does a fantastic job of integrating the showcase of our authors' works with some of the varied activities our site has to offer.

I've also offered assistance, and will continue to do so, to help people over what's perceived here as an assignment. Unlike most regular assignments, the teacher who's grading your work (the editor) is willing to help you shape your final project. If not me, then any one of our editors. If not directly in the queues, then in private mail on the main site or in the forums. And any of our site's prolific authors in our Author's Lounge, many of which are scattered throughout teams of their own, will likely do the same. (Samak-- I think you have a team member who actually wrote for your Race II specifically!) I understand feeling that writing is work, but our goal here is 'FunTrivia'.

And on your note, yes-- the website is here for the players. But in the past thirteen years here, I'd like to think I've made a bit of leeway in also making this website a more robust and welcoming place for our authors. If we didn't have them, this site wouldn't be here. I get it if it (writing, that is) is not for you (or anyone else), but this site is for them too. And that's why I make the argument that our games should, on the briefest of occasions, be for them as well.

I wonder if we editors and prolific writers are guilty of under-estimating just how daunting it can feel to be faced with a requirement to write questions or a quiz when you've never done it before. When faced with the requirement to write a quiz in the Great Quiz Race III, I didn't hesitate to take that route, to the extent that I didn't even look at any other options. If I'd never written before, I'd have felt very differently, I'm sure.

For Ascension, I think it's entirely right to include all areas of the site, but I'm not so sure that authoring should be the only option in these race games.

That said, there are many ideas to consider. Think about your home town, or where you live now. What happened in history, are there any famous people associated with it, any well-known landmarks, the sports teams etc. All these could give you an idea for a question or two, as well as the ideas suggested earlier - favourite film, book, television show and so on.

If you're not sure about your grammar, ask an editor to cast an eye over it first, if you like. We have many players who have English as a second language, who may phrase things differently, and some of them are regular authors.

As to the Daily Challenge, there are times when I can't motivate myself to come up with something. I ought to follow ozzz's advice, but probably wouldn't be able to resist submitting my questions at once.

Well you've lost me! Can't be bothered going any further at the moment.

Quizzes about Pokémon and Poker Hands?

How the hell is someone supposed to get those quizzes correct? Unless you're adept at both. If you are, well done to you.

This is what you have the retry for. Learn something, then complete the quiz the next day.

Also don't forget it is legit to research answers when playing regular quizzes. I aced the starter pokemon quiz that way right now.

Sorry, but I don't agree with any of this.

Writing two questions can be done easily over the course of weeks or months if players so choose. Yes I know I'm a prolific writer to begin with, but I write 5 QQ questions a day when I'm in the writing mood.

Writing such a minuscule amount is not commiserate with some of those other challenges, it is easier.

That said, players who choose not to finish the game because of the writing is a choice. There is no requirement on this site that says you must play the race games in order to enjoy any other aspect of the site. You get a couple badgelets and a badge for doing it, if you want those badges you satisfy those requirements.

Again, let's NOT avoid it in the future. Questions are needed so that ALL players can play games and have fun on the site.