Is this a misprint?

I got an EPIC challenge yesterday. You won't believe it.

It wants me to get 12,600 points EACH in 18 different categories.

That's 226,800 points in one day.

And that is ridiculous.

That would be points in timed quiz mode - which allows 100 play points maximum per question, not the 15 points per question correct. It's epic, but not impossible.

I was similarly confused the first time I got the Epic being referred to. But if I recall, on a second look I think I saw the challenge text did say that it meant (at the time) "Quiz Mode" points. Thank goodness it's not referring to true FunTrivia points. ... Don't give Wes any ideas!

IMO it is still a ridiculous requirement, even in timed quiz mode.

Has anyone actually achieved it already?

A small number of players have all the triple Epics, so it has been achieved. I've done it myself, but it was hard going. I think I had to stay up into the early hours to get there.

The triple flag requirements are pretty challenging for all colours. A couple I'd try again, but most I wouldn't.

I checked out of curiosity. This Epic has been won at triple level 48 times, to date.

Yes, that's a killer one alright. On the day I earned Quizzer III, I barely made it timewise - and I mean barely! Fortunately I received it early in the day or I would not have made it.

Thank you for all the feedback. I appreciate it, but will never EVER attempt that particular EPIC though, should I get it again. In my opinion it's completely unrealistic.

It's 20 quizzes at a 630 average (the latter should be realistic for a player at 3-flag level) per category. 360 quizzes overall. Certainly a lot, if you play at a rate of one per 2 mins, it's 12 hours. But then, it's a triple flag and those are meant for the most dedicated players.

I take your point, and I sincerely congratulate the 48 people who have managed to get this badge so far - out of all the thousands of players who use the site - and over the years this badge has been on offer - but that ideal player in twelve hours of solid playing would:

1. Not have to stop to eat

2. Not have to stop to go to the toilet

3. Not have to feed the kids or change the baby

4. Completely ignore the husband, wife or partner, parents, children or grandparents

5. Not answer any phone calls and shout at all visitors to get lost

6. Not have to go to work if he or she works during the day, or show up at work looking like a zombie from lack of sleep

7. Not have any physical disabilities such as Parkinson's, cerebral palsy, physical limitations from a stroke, or vision issues etc, all of which impact on speed games or focusing intently on a screen for a long time. Reading difficulties such as dyslexia would also impact negatively on some players

8. Can type quickly and not have a slow computer

I think Fun Trivia is excellent. It's the most magnificent site on the internet - well, apart from the Encyclopaedia Britannica that is. It's one place where everyone can feel on equal footing - with their problems of life not impacting on their playing at all. It offers realistic goals and options. I hate trendy sayings, but Fun Trivia really does level the playing field. It allows players to leave the harsh realities of life behind them, and it gives the gift of self-esteem. In here players can say "I can" instead of "I can't".

Normally.

Life is not meant to be fair in spite of the opening paragraph of the Gettysburg Address, and it seems to me that this particular challenge is not fair to the VAST majority of FT players. They wouldn't have a hope of getting that badge. Fun Trivia players should at least have a REALISTIC chance of winning ALL badges.

There now, I've had my say and will let it go at this.

Very well said Creedy (apart from the idea that all Fun Trivia players should have a realistic chance of winning all badges).
I would also point out that just because 48 people have met the requirement does not automatically mean that the requirement is not ridiculous.

It's my understanding that some of the epic requirements are tied to level. I remember the Green Triple had to be tweaked as it was getting impossible for players to complete them as levels have gotten higher and higher from new offerings such as the Ascension Quest, the Great Quiz Races, etc.

When I got the orange triple a few years ago, the requirements were 11200 in 18 of the 20 categories. I know this because I wrote it down in my notes. That's still quite an amount of work, but it's 320 instead of 360 quizzes (using Wes's estimates), slightly more than 11% less work.

Now, I disagree with Creedy's statement that all Fun Trivia players should have a realistic chance of winning all badges. Personally, I feel while many badges should be achievable by all, asking for all badges to cater to the least common denominator is going too far. For example, the Daily Game Champ: most people just don't have a shot at it, and that's part of what makes that badge special. However, I do feel that the requirement calculations for each epic should be reviewed. If level is part of the requirement, I feel it should be capped like the green flag was, or else some epics may end up playing significantly harder than originally intended.

Actually, Creedy, FITB questions are rare in quiz mode so typing speed probably won't be an issue. So that's one less thing to worry about.

(ducking)

I wasn't going to make any further comments in this thread as I don't wish it to descend into a free-for-all, but this is too much:

Eyhung, just whom do you class as "the least common denominator". Which group do you consider is the least worthy of consideration?

Not that I have a real opinion about the badge in this paragraph, but I took the 'least common denominator' comment to mean that we didn't want to make every badgelet attainable for casual players, and it's something I agree with. Making one of the 'Amazing Race' badgelets accessible to someone who didn't participate during the event, for instance, would be silly.

Not everyone is going to be able to get each badgelet. I'm in the boat of not aiming for the one under discussion. As for whether or not I could achieve the requirements, I'm not sure. If not, then I don't see myself as a 'lowest common denominator' by any means. Do I think the badgelet should be scaled back to something more comfortable and manageable? Not really; that kind of takes the 'challenge' and 'epicness' away from it, doesn't it?

The triple flag Epics don't give you anything extra, other than the satisfaction of having achieved that challenge and three flags on the badgelet instead of one or two.

I don't think eyhung meant to be disparaging at all. Some attainments are meant to be difficult - like the one I've been trying to get for three years without even getting close!

I think I understand both sides insofar as yes, some badges (or minis) are meant to be much, much harder than others. When you know there's one out there that others have won, and you have at least the potential to also win it, it can feel a little bit like the proverbial carrot is being dangled.

I would say this, keep in mind the Daily Challenge FAQ says this in one section:
You will encounter four difficulty levels of challenges: Easy, Medium, Difficult, and Epic. Their relative difficulty levels are as they sound. [...] It's important to note that difficult challenges are just that... difficult.

And later on in the FAQs, it says:
If you receive an epic of a flag color that you have completed before, you will be playing for a double flag. The point with these is that they are completely optional and meant only for players who want a challenge more difficult than what we'd consider fair to most FunTrivia players. The requirements for them are set extremely high and we don't want any players to feel they have to get them.

And that doesn't even mention the existence of the TRIPLE-flag variation. But it's pretty much saying, challenges are easy, so-so, hard, "Epic" (basically, very hard), and also double-flag Epics (extremely hard -- hence the text "a challenge more difficult than what we'd consider fair to most FunTrivia players").

So if an Epic is basically "very hard," and a double is "next step up," then the triple is -- logically -- going to be "the maximum difficulty limit (that would be realistic)." If you're even TRYING for a triple, you're already in the rare bunch of players who've gone far beyond what the vast majority of people could accomplish (in that area of challenge).

As eyhung noted, the Green Triple (which currently has ten winners) was scaled back, or at least had its difficulty capped, at Level 150, because beyond that point it was starting to give target scores that were going from "exceptionally hard" to "theoretically possible." And that wasn't the intention. The goal was to make them still realistically possible to attain.

Keep in mind that on FunTrivia, we are aiming to give all players a selection of things to shoot for. We have badges that will be easy going even for a slow player with limited knowledge and physical issues on top of that. We also have other badges meant to challenge the most dedicated and talented of players.

Triple Epics are clearly in that latter camp. They are (along with their double cousins) not even full challenges. Completing one will not increase your badgelet/challenge count as you will lose the corresponding lesser level of flag. The doubles and triples are upgrades much like the Divine Rank in Ascension Quest - an extra level of distinction on an already difficult award. We specifically make these highest grades into upgrades instead of additional badges to show this "beyond the normal scale" nature.

Look at duel for another example: The highest actual badge is set at rank 31, the lowest of the dinosaurs. Yet there are nine more steps after that and you are looking at a huge number of additional wins. Not even a perfect player (15 wins every day) will be able to get that last step in this decade. But it's there and we're looking forward to the day someone truly exceptional will achieve it!

Fair enough then. Thanks for all clarifications (plural). I really will leave it this time.

But please tell me you're kidding with the Duel. I'll be dead before I reach nine more levels in that.

The good thing about it though is that it doesn't disappear completely after 24 hours, ie it can always be played, whatever amount of games you get each time, or whether you played the day before or not. Each day is a fresh set of challenges.

I'll be sure to have my headstone inscribed "She died in a duel".

It looks like my phrasing the "lowest common denominator" has caused offense, much of which I did not intend.

I come from a scientific background and was aware of the mathematical basis behind the phrase, but not any pejorative ones, so I used it in an attempt to describe my position. After getting both public and private messages complaining about my choice of phrase, I googled it and discovered that some people believe it to have elitist overtones.

I apologize for injecting such language into the discussion and will be more careful in the future. I would also like to thank the admins of the site for explaining my position in a less offensive fashion.

Yep. We don't need every badge to be a participation trophy. There are so many badges to win, why should anyone think they are entitled to win them all? Naturally only the greatest will win them all, and they will go down in FT history for their achievements. Competition is really about achievement and distinction. But who wants to fight to win something that everyone will eventually get anyway? That kind of thinking will actually debase competition, because the most talented will simply spend their time in other ways, because why fight to win the same distinction as anyone else?

Everyone has a talent at something, and can do something. For some it's writing quizzes (eburge, Cowrofl for example). For ohers, it's scoring a mind blowing number of points (kickaha and genoveva). For some it's consistently outperforming others on Global Challenge (WesleyCrusher and jules44). For others it's being even faster than Watson and almost every player on every game every day (Halekotsi). Others it's consistently winning at KO (DomiNeyTor and formerly daBomb, and eventually Halekotsi will be there, too.)

One thing to note about these players, none of them are the best at every game but have a niche and beyond that are just really great players. But they all have a particular area where they excel.

All players need that. To find what that thing is that they excel at and work on that and take pride in it and people will notice it. But we don't need to make it easier on players which also incidentally diminishes the performances of those who previously won it. What, when we lower it then all of those players lose the respect they earned from "going where no trivia master has gone before!" and winning the super rare badge. Bad, bad, bad.

Some of those categories can be knocked out pretty fast though. 20 at 630 is 14 at 900 which is not hard at all on most people's best categories. If we just take 14 -> 14 * 2 * 18 = 8.5 hours.

And a substantial amount of hourly game information comes from easy quizzes in each category and so a great deal is recognizable for most players without reading the full question. I just wanted to put that out so no one thinks it will take all players 12 hours because there are quite a few who will finish it maybe even in have that time.

Sorry to keep beating a dead horse.

What I do, before buying a challenge, I think a couple things first. What time is it? If it's early in the day, I know if I get an epic, I have plenty of time to try to tackle it. Also, can I complete all three of my challenges? Because some of the challenges have required that all challenges in a day be completed. Although I think I've seen one that did not require that. So if there's one I can't beat that day, like Crystal Ball that I never play and just think it is the most difficult game to wrap my head around, I don't buy a challenge. So there's reasons I wouldn't buy the challenge and if you know you have work that day, don't buy a challenge that could be an epic, because then there's no way you can get it. That is another challenge. It can come up, and you fail to get it. But you have to keep trying and one day you might get it again and that day you will have time. So you have to keep persevering.